MO Trees

[WDH]

A fortune in chains  .

[mesquite buckeye]

Un millon de pesos!!!!!!!!!!! ;D

[thecfarm]

My Father and me use to use chains. I was the chain man.My Father would drive the tractor. We would bring 3-4 chains with us. I have no idea the lenghts now,probably from 12-16 feet long each. Sometimes I would have all 4 chains hooked together and he would drive forward only 6 feet and re hook. We missed alot of little trees too. Than we got a bigger tractor and a 3 pt winch. I was no longer needed.  :D The best part was we could get 3-4-5-6 logs at one time.

[SwampDonkey]

The woods grows so thick around here, that it's impossible to move logs any length without hitting or running on little trees. I suppose you could heli log and hook onto the sky hook. ;D  Now I know that is different than some fellas that will push over a 4" white birch to the ground to make a trail, when they already have 5 trails. ;)

[thecfarm]

Those little trees need to be thinned out a little anyways.  :D
Years ago when we was cutting just fire wood, we did not open it up enough for the little trees to come in and grow,for the most part.There was a few places that we cut hard.But when we started to cut white pine 3 feet across,that opened up the forest floor and talk about regen. WOW and another WOW.

[SwampDonkey]

For years, my uncle and grandfather used the pick and peck method of cutting firewood. The stands were sugar maple and beech. They never opened the canopy enough to allow the maple to grow. And I remember maple seedlings, a carpet as thick as grass, in those woods. But they had no light to take off. What happened was the beech, which will grow in a closet, took over and killed out the maple regen. And that beech is some thick, and with beech disease up here the beech will most often never even make firewood anymore. So you have an overstory of mature maple, by just pecking away, and an understory of beech that is about worthless by the time it's 8". This happened exactly the same on two woodlots.  : These are not the only woodlots I've seen this, it's common all over. Here on the farm our hardwoods was mostly maple, yellow birch and white ash. Dad cut white ash 30 years ago as big as your pine. ;D In my woods the maple and ash seeded in very well. All kinds of both, almost no beech.

[mesquite buckeye]

Back home in Tucson. Got to meet qbilder in Alamagordo. A real nice guy and very skilled woodworker. He managed to talk me out of a little piece of beeswing bitternut hickory. ;D

Got a few more pictures. Some I'm still trying to figure out how to get them to work, they are jpeg, not jpg and the system doesn't like them.

Black locust


 

Peak color on the west lane.


 

Color in the woods.


  

 

[mesquite buckeye]

A short video side dropping that double trunked bitternut hickory. The first, easy one has already been dropped. The one in the video has a heavy head lean and slight back lean. We were able to get it close to where we wanted with wedges.

http://youtu.be/C__b51TAh_I

[mesquite buckeye]

Figured out the problem by converting the jpeg files to gif files.

More peak color in the Missouri woods about a week ago.


  

  
It was raining hickory nuts. ;D ;D ;D
Got'em by the handfulls. ;D


 
Littlest hickory nuts I have ever seen.  :(  Seems like they shrunk since I was 5.

Good eatin' ;D 8) 8) 8)

[SwampDonkey]

All that needed to be done with those jpeg files was edit the extension to jpg. Now, instead of having a ~50 kb file it has now grown 5 times in memory usage. Slows down a thread big time on a dial-up connection. And they don't show any more detail or clarity.

Might want to edit them files. ;)

You making a hickory pie or something, with those nuts? ;D

[mesquite buckeye]

Well, at least it worked. I had been trying for a week to get them into my gallery. Thanks for the tip.


Sort of like a pecan pie, but with hickory nuts. They definitely taste kind of like pecans, but sweeter. ;D

[mesquite buckeye]

Back in AZ, milling cant's from MO yesterday. This slippery elm seemed to have just a little internal stress.


 


;D

[SwampDonkey]

I don't suppose you need some bow wood? ;D

[Cedarman]

Mesquite,  a few years ago there was a conference in (I think is was in Springfield) where pruning cedar was discussed.  The general consensus was that there was none.  Some said you can get good results , others said you wouldn't.  We have seen trees delimbed that turned out well with no rot around the cut limbs and others that were a disaster with rot at every knot.
How big are the cedars that you are delimbing and how close to the stem are you trimming and what are the biggest limbs that you are cutting off?
Curious to see how your experiment is going. 
Being that clear cedar can sell for 3 times regular cedar, it could well be worth the effort.

[thecfarm]

WOW! That had more than a little of something all right  :D

[mesquite buckeye]

I don't suppose you need some bow wood? ;D

The next one had a 3/4" hump in the middle and curled the other way. Maybe you are right and I should save them. ;D

[mesquite buckeye]

Hey Cedarman- Thanks for your input. I was the hardhead at that conference who insisted it was a good idea. We shall see.

I have several what you could call experiments going at once:

       1. Pruning up open grown trees. There are many of these in a CRP planting from 1999. I also have     
           others of this type in areas of old field succession.

       2. Pruning cedars in mixed stands with hardwoods, combined with thinning.

       3. Pruning and thinning cedars in dense stands of primarily cedar.

Most of my pruning and all of the thinning happens in the fall from around the time of peak fall color to leaf drop. My method of pruning is to cut as close to the branch collar as possible without injuring the collar. All the pruning is done with chainsaws, regardless of height. We use chainsaw on a stick when the branches get over head height. We never remove more than 1/4 to 1/3 of the live crown, pruning bottom up.

When pruning open grown, or what are commonly called field cedars, it is often necessary to remove overly dominant side branches (you could call them bull branches) above the general pruning line to prevent them from becoming coleaders with the primary leader of the tree. These branches will get big fast and often can be up to 2 or even 3" thick even on a small tree. The bigger branches need to be cut in three cuts to prevent bark tearing, but especially to keep a mid branch crack from forming, which could serve as an entry point for heart rotting fungi. We also do this on open grown hardwoods to maintain a forest tree form.

In the mixed stands, usually the pruning is combined with thinning. I try to save the good cedars, but also like to favor trees of good form that don't produce deep shade, such as black and honey locusts, cherry and walnut, as these are more compatable with keeping the cedars alive and growing. These trees also seem to grow well in association with red cedars. If I get a really good, straight red oak, I will leave that, knowing that by the time it starts to kill the cedars, I will still get something worth cutting.

In the heavy cedar stands, many times the trees are so thick they are killing each other, even though the literature says they won't. Here I combine thinning with pruning. We usually get a lot of poles and posts from the thinnings. I select for cedars with a single leader if I have a choice, as the forked ones often get split in half from ice storms or heavy snow. I also select for round trunks without flutes, which may be useful for surviving a buck rub attack, but don't give the best lumber necessarily. Often in such stands, the dead branches will extend to 8-10' and often to as high as 16'. I remove all the dead branches, but try to remove as little of the live crown as possible until the plants recover some crown mass following the thinning. Usually in such stands, the thinning/pruning needs to be repeated by 8-15 years to prevent crowding again. Also in such stands especially, we have ideal conditions for infection by heart rotting fungi with the combination of still air and high humidity. Any trees that show any sign of rot get cut down. This serves the double function of removing a source of fungus inocculum and leaving only healthy trees, which may prove to be more resistant to the diseases and insects. I do the same thing in my black locust stands. Heart rotted trees occupy the same space and use just as much forest resources as good healthy ones.

Results:

       1. The open grown cedars respond by rapidly closing over the short branch stubs (often within 2-3 years) and producing additional crown. We prune these trees when they are at least 5 ft tall up to 10 ft or so at first pruning. At the current growth rates, it looks like it would be best to raise the crown a foot or two every few years, as well as to remove bull branches that appear. These trees that started out with pretty extreme taper in the trunk rapidly fill in below the crown to the point that the taper is minimal. I expect little rot to develop in these trees, as the conditions for infection are poor, with fast growing, healthy trees, rapid drying and maximum air flow. I am thinking we will be able to create at least 10 foot logs with at most a knotty core no greater than 4-6" in diameter, then clear outside that to whatever size to which we can grow the trees.

       2. In the mixed stands, the cedars generally are of somewhat lower vigor, but much less tapered and
           taller when we get to them, often 20ft or better. Often the branches are mostly dead to perhaps
           shoulder or head height. Following thinning and pruning, the trees resume rapid growth and soon
           cover the pruned stubs. These trees usually get pruned to around 8 ft on the first pass. Again,
           pretty good air flow and slower drying, but improved over unpruned, unthinned. Repruning
           at 5 year intervals should be adequate.

       3. In the heavy stands, conditions are best for the development of disease. However, even here, the
           thinning and pruning improves airflow, and should reduce disease incidence. Crown improvement
           seems light dependent, so if the thinning is too light, little improvement is seen. If the thinning is
           too heavy, the risk of the trees being broken in winter is greatly increased, at least for the first
           couple of years. These stands are capable of producing clear logs to perhaps 16 ft or so. I do
           expect more disease incidence in these stands, but even here the trees with healthy crowns close
           their wounds fairly rapidly, like in 5 years or so.

I am planning to mill some of the trees we thinned and pruned over the years and will post photos of what we find on this post at that time. It should be interesting. If the wounds are closed and there is no rot, I think we can demonstrate that it works. If rot is showing up, time for plan B. I am guessing it will be a mix, but I am hoping it  will be mostly good.

[Cedarman]

Mesquite, thanks for elaborating on what you are doing.  I wish I could take time to work in the woods like that, but I am relegated to overseeing the mill.
When you saw some of those logs that have been delimbed at an early stage, I am very  curious how they turn out.  I have sawn logs that were delimbed with an axe that had no rot.  Something is going on that keeps some trees from having the rot develop around the knot.
I need to go back to a woods I logged in 1988 and see how much growth has taken place.  I did some logging in a place in 1984 where we left a bunch of pole cedar that was well exposed.  I wonder if they are still standing or the wind took them out.
You have made me curious.

[mesquite buckeye]

Curiosity is the first step to learning new things. ;D 8) 8) 8)

[SwampDonkey]

I know with spruce, you get less occurrence of rot if you stay out of the limb swell at the trunk when pruning. I've seen lots of pruning behind people's yards and pastures with a chainsaw, and after awhile the saw operator gets sloppy or tired and the chain is rubbing up and down the tree bark and cutting off that big swell. A recipe for rot. The best results is tree spacing to self prune. Species like spruce and fir out in the open just limb back up with the sun hitting the trunk. Same with white cedar. Cow shade/pasture spruce are not marketable up here. Usually get sawn by the land owner to put up a hay shed or cow shelter.

[mesquite buckeye]

Well, back from Missouri for a couple of weeks now. Sorry to be so slow to post.


George White tree nursery near Licking Missouri in the Ozark highlands.

 

1500 little trees.

 

Missouri Ozarks

 


Trees sitting in the woods shade waiting to be planted.

  

 





 
First trees into the ground. This spot is one of the worst sites on the farm. Severely eroded clay soil, highly acidic. What you are seeing here is 15 years of succession. First several to many years with hardly a weed, then a fine mesh of poverty threeawn (grass) forms. A few very poor looking, slow growing red cedars. Only in the last two or three years have the tallgrass prairie plants, here bluestem, started to return. Most of the area of my farm was an intermix of areas of tallgrass prairie on the uplands and eastern deciduous forest in the draws and along streams before the introduction of agriculture in the early 1800's. The first thing to come back are the prairie plants. Trees come later except for bur oaks and red cedars, which can grow with the big grasses. The trees were restricted by frequent, intentionally lit fires.

More to come. ;D

[SwampDonkey]

The deer and rabbits will have something tender to nibble on for a few days. ;D With there being sparse grass the mice probably won't girdle them. Up here if we plant hardwood in grass the mice will chew all the bark off in the winter.

Good luck with your project.  ;D

[mesquite buckeye]

Thanks for the thought.

They have to find them first. I am using the camoflage method of planting. ;D Hopefully the hawks, owls, foxes and coyotes will do their jobs. The deer have much bigger fish to destroy fry with the hedged trees already out there. Also, there has been a big deer dieoff out there, but you would never notice from the heavy trailing.

[mesquite buckeye]

More pictures. Here is a panorama of the east field rotating from NW to SW from the middle of the field.

  

  

  

  

 


Here are my niece and nephew hard at it in the east field.

 


The following are a series of photos of hedged 15 year old trees from the first planting.

 
Hedged walnuts to right. To the left is one that the deer missed and is now above the danger height.



 
Closeup of a hedged walnut.




 
Thornless form of honey locust 15 years from planting.




  
Red oak pounded down by the deer last year (winter/spring) with new recovery growth from last summer. The deer are not content to browse the trees. They will intentionally beat them down with antlers or front feet to keep the trees at the height they can eat. Once they get over about 6-7 feet tall they ignore them except for rubs.




 
Young tree pounded last fall/winter. I think it is a walnut.




 
Black locust invasion of northern part of the west field. This was a preferred deer habitat when the stand was brushy. These will be thinned this fall to the best stems and a wider spacing. The removed stems are useful as rot resistant poles and posts. The remaining thinned trees will become lumber. ;D




 
Another pounded walnut.




 
Another tree that has been beaten, hedged and has now popcorned (my expression) above deer height. Note the hedged branches down low. This one is probably 12 ft tall or so. I will prune off the left, curved trunk this year, then the smaller upper right one in a couple more years. When I am done it should turn into a decent tree, in spite of how it looks now. ;D




 
Hedged walnut. :(




 
Closeup of hedged walnut showing branches bitten off.




 
Another one that has been hedged and beaten, then popcorned, after that antler rubbed. If it can get through this year without getting smashed down, there is a strip of bark that will keep the top alive and after that it will be relatively safe from the deer. ;D 8) 8) 8)




 
Another one. Same deal.




 
Another hedged walnut that was pounded also. This is the typical sized tree that will popcorn if the deer miss it just one year.




 
Sweetgum, possibly our most misunderstood tree. ;D 8) 8) 8) The rubbery branches resist deer damage. Maybe they don't taste good to them either. They do try to antler pound them, but not so successfully. Most of these have good form and will be easily pruned up once the bark thickens a bit more. ;D Probably 12-15 ft tall.




  
Heavy deer trailing.




 
Dead Mississippi painted turtle dead along a deer trail.




 
My nephew, Adam, stomping in the planting bar. Hard work if you have never done it.


Panorama of the west field from SE to SW from my dad's old deer stand. Almost nothing left of the cherry it was built in or the stand. Took these balancing on the top step of the ladder. :-\


 


  

 


Planting the last tree. That makes 1950 of them. ARGH
 

    

  

 
Can you see it? Sorry Bambi. :'(


Took a little walk in the woods after we got done. Sorry, no morels yet.


  

  

  

  

 
Sapsuckers.


 
Native yucca.


  
Mayapples.

 
Dutchmen's breeches.


  

 
Wet part of a terrace with new trees next to the flags.


 
Elephant resistant honey locust.


 
Dog, the wonder dog. My woods is in the background behind my sister's pond.


 
Why I don't like to save forked cedars if I can help  it. :(


Usually the oaks will shade out and kill cedars. Not always the result. The extreme drought of 2012 and the severe drought of 2013 tested the trees for drought tolerance. The cedars did fine and the adjacent oaks died.

  

 
More dead oaks and happy cedars.

 
Walnuts.


Heading home.

  
Kansas sunset.


 
Kansas burning.


 
White Sands, SW of Alamogordo, NM.


 
Organ Mountains, between Alamogordo  and Las Cruces. Alamogordo means fat cottonwood, in case you wondered, Las Cruces, the crossings, a place to ford the Rio Grande.


 
The bone dry Rio Grande in Las Cruces, due to the current dust bowl conditions of the American Southwest. This drought has lasted 17 years now.


 
One of many dust storms billowing west of Las Cruces.


 
Thanks for letting us know. The sign shall set you free. It says use extreme caution if you can't read it.


 
Mountains near the NM/AZ border at the ghost town of Steins, NM.


 
Texas Canyon rest stop in SE AZ.


  
The mountains of home. The Rincons. the ranch is to the right and Tucson to the left.


 
The world unfamous Triple T Truckstop. Santa Catalina Mountains and Tucson in the background. If you come to Tucson, stop here for yummy hot apple pie w ice cream. ;D


Home again. ;D 8) 8) 8)

[mesquite buckeye]

Almost forgot. One of my many gullies. Missouri is erosion central with its combination of sloping land, erodible soils, and severe storms with near tropical rainfall.


 
Head of the gully.




 
Here is the traditional treatment of gullies. Put your junk in there and it catches the dirt and stabilizes the gully. I have found several former gullies in the woods that have so filled with inwashed dirt that you have difficulty knowing it ever was a wash.




 
Glippitty glop conditions. Makes really heavy shoes.




  
The delta of the gully. Surprisingly, most gullies mostly move earth locally. Most of the dirt from the cut area above has deposited here. The network of poverty threeawn really helps (see next photo). The tallgrass prairie is now colonizing the delta.

  


Another less severe gully planted with trees in the bottom to try to get it stablilized. The fallen needles, leaves and sticks really help.