At it again, when will I learn.

[Bro. Noble]

Well Jeff,

If you think you have house problems,  listen to this.

I've just been informed that the billiard room of our new house is too small for a regulation sized pool table >:(   How big a room does it take?

My wife says it is just the right size for a sewing room :.  How could this have happened? :'(

[chet]

To me using a cricket keeps the water moving off the roof . I would think in our northern climate, the last thing you would need is water between your shingles going through freeze thaw cycles.

[etat]

Referring to Jeffs picture, the cracked shingle that allowed water in, this is primarily due to  movement between the roofs.


The lower shingles in the valley I described are cover shingles, for looks, not water protection.  The true water protection is the underlayment, in particular the ice and water shield, and the valley metal.  You actually could leave the cover shingles out, and it still wouldn't leak if properly roofed. Most all valleys around here years ago had open, or cut valleys, with the metal exposed. Used now are fully laced, and half laced valleys, the half laced ones have the best look and the shingles lay down better.  Occasionally I still do roofs with exposed copper in the valleys, but this is very rare, most people want the valley metal covered. On close tight valleys I always full lace when possible, especially near the bottom.  Once I get up a few feet I change to the half lace method which as I said lays down better.  I never, ever, except when absolutely necessary to roof the house put a nail, either in metal, underlayment, or shingles with in 8 inches of the center of the valley.  The roofs WIll move, this will stress any nails, screws, or other fasteners holding the decking together, and the underlayment and shingles.  If decking nails, screws, or staples loosen they will try to back out, perhaps poking a hole in the shingles as they do so.  Compounding the problem, as pictured, many of these fasteners to properly fasten the cricket will fall into other decking, not firmly into rafters. Thus if they back up  possible leak.  With the underlayment layed loose in the valley the roofs can expand and contract with out breaking the underlayment or shingles because they have the ability to move up and down, without stretching. Dead valleys are always a bad situation, but in this case, short '24 inches', and fully visible I would not encourage adding other potential problems.  I can see where this may not sound right to some of yall, but I stand by my opinion that it is wrong to try to tie these two roofs together when I know that proper roofing methods WILL stop any water or moisture getting to the deck.  Again, bad situation, but best possible solution.


link concerning wood movement, separate roofs will compound this problem tremendiously

http://www.askthebuilder.com/487_Pesky_Pop_Up_Roofing_Nails.shtml

[etat]

Bro. Nobel try shorter cue sticks!!! :D

[etat]

Oh, this is fun other than the part that feels like I'm sticking my neck out so yall can chunk at my head and I'm starting to sound like a broke record!!!!    I will be resonable though, if somebody absolutely proves me wrong I will consider changing my methods for roofing dead valleys!!!!   :D

[Jeff]

Well Ck, I have appreciatted all the help and information that everyone has given and I think I gotta go with the pro. So Noble, what ever you say is the way I will go.



Just kidding Charles!  I gotta follow your advice.

[Stump Jumper]

great info here . keep up the good work 8)

[ADfields]

Once you get it done don't ever EVER step in or even near that valley!   Especially after it's been there for a couple of years, it will pull up and swing between the nails a bit.   You bet there is wood movement and with the huge loads from the ice they will be even more, wanting to rack the two attics away from one another.   I would never do it this way and in Anchorage it would be a code violation like running water in an exterior wall. (We have no code hear in Palmer ;D)    Lots of stuff is different up north to down south like frost heave, ice dam's, all the pluming, framing for the loads and so on.   CK you are likely used to trusses specked for a 20# per foot load hear we need a 60# roof with will flex much less, I bet it's the same in Michigan.   But it's your business Jeff and I have done my duty to inform ya of what your in for, if ya like it or not. :-/   So I will now shut up on the matter.   So hows it coming along anyhoo ???
Andy

[ADfields]

Well Jeff,

If you think you have house problems,  listen to this.

I've just been informed that the billiard room of our new house is too small for a regulation sized pool table >:(   How big a room does it take?

My wife says it is just the right size for a sewing room :.  How could this have happened? :'(

It just so happens I was pool table shopping monday and was told I need a 12X14 room or better for an 8 foot table.   So I would guess a 9 foot table would need another foot all round and be 14X16 or better.   This don't count stools, pictures and other stuff but just room to clear a stick all round.   Hope that helps ya. :   I'm adding a 18X20 on for the big screen and will use the 24X16 basement thats now the TV room for a game room.  8)
Andy

[Jeff]

I do appreciate the input Andy and Thank you.

 I wont be stepping near that valley, In fact this is the first time in 20 years I have been near this one. I don't worry about weight and don't shovel the roof. 6 inch construction on the trusses.  Like I said, the rot looks to be above the shingles, not below. I say thats pretty good for raw pine touching a wet roof to last that long. And as I also stated, we are not in the lake effect snow region. We are to far inland for the lake effect snow to reach.

[Furby]

A billiard room needs a min of 5' from each side of the table, you do the math!  ;)
Then of course like AD said, add room for everything else!!!  ;D
I'm thinking that 40' x 40' would be the smallest I'd go!!!  :D :D :D

[Bro. Noble]

My 'billiards' room measures 12X15'2"  so I guess the smaller table would be my only choice.  Probably would have to have short cues handy as well.  I used to shoot quite a bit of pool and snooker but was never outstanding at it.  I do want to get a good table or none at all though.  How satisfactory are the smaller tables?  

[ADfields]

8 foot tables are what is found in bars most of the time and by far the most common in a home.   They even make a 7 footer.   A 9 foot regulation table is a huge mass of felt to look over.
Andy

[etat]

No regulation size for me!  I 'used' to like them 8 foor bar tables!!!!! 8) 8) 8)

Probably couldn't even see the holes in the other end of a 9 foot table.  ??? ???

[Bro. Noble]

I did a little searching on pool tables,  it appears that the 7' is what would work the best for our space.  Reckon that would be satisfactory or should I just forget it?

[etat]

Lets see, 7 foot pool table.....sewing machine.....7 foot pool table.....sewing machine.......7 foot pool table............WAIT!!!!  STOP RIGHT THERE!!!!!!!  NO CONTEST!!!!!!!!!! :D 8) 8) 8)

[Jeff]

cktate, I knew you were a roofer, but a seamstress too?

OUTSTANDING!

[etat]

Actually, I HAVE done A bit of sewing in my time!!!!!! ;D ;D 8) 8) 8)  I was building samples at BenchCraft one sunday years ago, had the whole plant to myself.  Somebody left a puller off a arm.  I must a broke or tangled up 8 or 10 sewing machines afore I got one figured out. ;D  I was making sure I was using machines that WERE NOT on my sewing line.  Lotsa women mad come monday!!!!  I laid low, and KEPT MY MOUTH SHUT!!!!!! 8) 8) 8) 8)

[Jeff]

I have sewn before. Tammy is actually the neighborhood seamstress. Always putting zippers in carharts and hunting suits for guys, altering prom dresses and occasionally makes a wedding dress.  Back to me.  ;D  I can also crochet a little (granny squares) and I used to be able to knit.  Back when I was a kid they had Rosy Greer on the cover of Womans Day magazine crocheting and thats when I realized it was O.K. for a guy to crochet. WHo the heck was goona mess with Rosy in his prime?

[Mark M]

When I was a kid my mom taught me how to make marble bags with a pull string closure. Man I had more bags than I had marbles. 8)

[Jeff]

Mark, you just brought up a horrible, horrible, embarrasing memory. I had a drawstring bag also, that mom showed me how to make. I had it plumb full of marbles. Lots of them big cats eye boulders. One day Mom came in and found my marble bag empty on the floor. I had to tell her the day before I lost all my marbles to the big neighbor kid, Ricky Lee. He was 4 years older, but won them fair and square as far as I was concerned. She marched me over there and told ricky's mom what happened and then Ricky's mom made him give them all back to the "Little kid". Ricky got the switch right there in front of me and some other kids. It was not FAIR!

Later on in the day, I got the switch. To save face with the guys, I made a slingshot and shot all the marbles into the woods behind the house because the were tainted.

[Jeff]

O.K., more At it again, when will I learn.

Took a drive up to Corley5's place last night and rummaged around in the remains ot thier last years Northern White cedar harvest. Found some dandys to make the corner logs for my log siding.

Over a year old, and bark ready to jump off. ;D I'll post another picture when I peel them. DURN RAIN!

[Bro. Noble]

CK,

Thanks for helping me think that one through.  Now all I gott do is come up with the money to buy a table :-/

Told my wife if she would kinda skimp on buying furniture and appliances,  it shouldn't be a problem.

I shoulda thought that one through a little more :

[Jeff]

Build one Noble

[etat]

Only one extra sheet of plywood to cover,  it can double as a kitchen table.