starting a logging business..eventually

bigred1951 · December 09, 2013, 01:59:55 AM

well ive decided im gonna start logging but itll probably be a couple years before i really get to do anything. Gotta get some bills and things paid off then ill start looking for a decent dozer with a winch. Im either gonna get a gooseneck to use at first or find a older truck. Probably spend around 20-25k for all the equipment and then will have to start finding the timber

CCC4 · December 09, 2013, 02:06:17 AM

Sub out your trucking, then you don't have to deal with up keep on an older truck.

Sure are alot of you Kentucky boys on here. I was born and raised till 21 in the suburbs of Louisville.

Ianab · December 09, 2013, 02:57:58 AM

Like CCC4 says, if you are a small operation and plan on logging AND hauling the logs it means you have 2 expensive pieces of machinery to buy and maintain, but can only use one at a time. So 1/2 the time, one of your machines is sitting idle, and costing you money.

Locally a couple of the larger logging companies run their own trucks, but these are outfits with 10+ staff. So they can operate a couple of trucks, and a couple of skidders and loaders etc. Other smaller operators are just loggers, and various trucking companies haul their logs for them, and even other logging Co.s. You pay, they haul

What's the best option? Depends on your local situation... Lots of loggers, but they have a hard time getting logs hauled? Sounds like an opportunity for someone to buy a truck. Lots of truckers looking for work? Then get logging and hire them to haul for you.

Finding jobs to log is a whole other subject

Ian

thecfarm · December 09, 2013, 09:16:33 AM

On the trucking part.I had a few tell me that I need my own truck. As I would tell them,while I'm driving who is cutting the wood and making money?
I was lucky,I had a guy that would come in most times no more than 2 days wait. He hauled for all small times guys,but we all kept him busy. At the time we was new to the market and he knew the market better than we did too.
This was all on my Father's land so we did not need some of the safety stuff that we would of needed on someone elses land.I have no idea how KY is. There was some paper work that we had to fill out to tell the state how much was cut. Very simple stuff that was. Just keep your scale slips.
I myself would not get a truck. Just another piece of equipment to maintain. I have no idea how much it cost to maintain a truck,fuel and any taxes on it too. Just regular wear and tear would be a lot,I feel. Than you know it will break down too. That will eat some of the profit away.

CX3 · December 09, 2013, 02:05:53 PM

Imo you wouldn't need a truck.

Another thing is I'd find the timber before I bought the equipment. Skidders are easy to find. Timber not so much good luck

Kemper · December 09, 2013, 03:20:17 PM

I'm what I would call a small time logger. Ive paid for my truck and trailer multiple times by not paying for hauling. Just my two cents.

mills · December 09, 2013, 05:29:57 PM

Quote from: Kemper on December 09, 2013, 03:20:17 PM
I'm what I would call a small time logger. Ive paid for my truck and trailer multiple times by not paying for hauling. Just my two cents.

I agree, my truck pays for itself. Taxes and licenses cost me around $1,000 per year plus upkeep, but it's there when I want it for logs or moving equipment. And, at times I can haul when it's raining, or too wet to run the skidder.

With that said, there have been times I could make more money in the woods than I could on the road, and had someone come in a haul a load or two. Put your pencil on your paper, and you'll figure it out.

Autocar · December 09, 2013, 06:49:36 PM

Iam with Kemper and CX3 I wouldn't do with out my truck know more waiting on getting my skidder moved and truck my logs. I don't do real well waiting on a truck when the weather is perfect so it works good for me.

Birchwood Logging · December 09, 2013, 07:34:28 PM

Have you thought a tract skid loader that's what I started out with if you are not on real steep ground you can pull with it and also load with it if you are looking for a little Dozer I got a John deere 550 a I might sell

bigred1951 · December 09, 2013, 09:21:44 PM

i wish i had the money but itll be a good while before i could really afford to do anything. But i would like to have my own truck for i know it would pay for itself and not having to pay somebody to haul my wood and equipment for me

CCC4 · December 09, 2013, 09:55:10 PM

Paying a driver a flat rate is much much cheaper than diesel, tires, brakes, general upkeep, equipment failures and breakdowns, licensing, permits, violation tickets etc...In the mean time you could already be cutting and landing timber, all the time saving up for a truck.

Not to forget to ask who's gonna drive the truck? You? So while you are hauling who's going to be cutting? Or will you hire a driver? What will he charge you to drive your truck?

Southside · December 09, 2013, 10:20:37 PM

Starting in 2001, the first time I got into this game, I built up a business that had 5 trucks when 2007 hit, we were going like gangbusters. Everybody's situation is different, my first truck was an older Freightliner, the next ones were new International leases - in the end the trucks never really made me any money. Older trucks are cheaper to buy, but cost more to keep running, newer trucks cost more to buy, then cost a whole lot more when you do have to pay to fix something. Insurance, taxes, and DOT can cost you a lot of money. A single over axle fine can easily run several grand, curb a brand new tire - $400 gone easily, DOT LOVE log trucks, they know they work hard and heavy and inspections tend to show lots of little details they can write up. Watch a scale in operation one day and see how many log trucks get weighed and inspected compared to a nice and shinny OTR box van. Trucks have their place, and some guys make a lot of $$ with them, but it costs $$ to make $$, and trucking margins can be very tight. Anytime a truck is either sitting or running empty it is loosing money you can never get back. Like others said, look at the market and find the demand in the market, start there and build up, do your homework, don't just dive in to what you think you want to do.

Where I am it's not popular to hire contracted trucking - nobody seems to do it. I worked with a couple of fiber buyers at mills I sell to and they helped line up the trucking for me, they know who has unused capacity, who is good and reliable to work with. For me this works, I get great service at really what it would cost me to truck the wood myself when I consider the operating cost, cost of ownership, cost of my time, and the fact I can focus on what I am doing. Just takes communication and planning. Just my $0.02 - good luck with your new endeavor!!

shortlogger · December 10, 2013, 12:36:14 AM

The truck thing in my opinion is situational . Depending on the scale of your operation the distance of your hauls and even the value of the timber your hauling . Like it was said earlier get some some timber found and get an idea of what your doing and invest in equipment accordingly to your operations needs . I have used the mobility of a smaller self loading truck to pickup a lot of free or very cheap small tracks of wood that the dozer was about to get or was just too small for a big crew to move in and do . But that's me you will have to find your spot in the puzzle ....
Good luck

gologit · December 10, 2013, 08:47:32 AM

Another thing to think about if you plan on running your own truck...liability. If you or a hired driver get into an accident with your truck you'd best get ready for lawsuits. Even if your insurance company is picking up the costs you'll still be named in the suit and you'll have to spend time giving depositions, talking to lawyers, talking to the insurance company etc. etc. Time like that is time taken away from your business. Even if the accident isn't your fult you can plan on a rate increase.
I've tried it both ways, having my own trucks and hiring my trucking done. My trucks never made any real net profit for the amount of time I spent dealing with them. Regulatory compliance is a nightmare. There's drug testing, DOT BIT inspections, and a mountain of record keeping for workman's comp and taxes.
For me it was always a lot easier, and more cost effective in the long run, to have somebody do my hauling. In our area there are a lot of gypos who'll do a good job for a fair price and, most of all, no worries on my part.

Dave VH · December 10, 2013, 02:35:38 PM

I do a little logging, a few small jobs a year. I use my Chevy 2500 diesel and either my 16' dump trailer, or a car hauler to haul with. If I get a bigger job, I hire it out like everyone else. For starting out it's good to have equipment that can multifunction. That makes you more versatile to take on a larger variety of work.

lynde37avery · December 10, 2013, 10:04:59 PM

truck or no truck, its a way of life. take it one step at a time. im fixin to buy my own truck for hauling my logs and get away from hired truck. it defntly pays for its self from what I have seen, heard and been paying for trucking. buy a good skidder too. it pays to buy the nicer of the options. saves in the long run. crawler dozers rule too btw.

KyLogger · December 16, 2013, 08:50:08 PM

In our neck of the woods ( I am one county away from him) almost no one contracts out the hauling, as there are almost no contract haulers. This is the land of single axle trucks and mid 80's tandems. For the most part alot of the smaller guys (who make up the vast majority of loggers around here) are the timber faller, skidder operator, truck driver etc... Some guys hire fallers, and skidder operators etc... You can score a decent single axle diesel for $3,500-$5,000 and a fair tandem for not much more. Alot of guys are running farm tags, so that cuts out the DOT regs....(until they get caught, it's kind of a grey area) They insure the trucks as farm trucks not commercial log trucks. We pretty muck get away with bloody murder in our neck of Appalachia! I am the only logger I know that wears a tin hat and spenders!

Tom

thecfarm · December 16, 2013, 09:12:37 PM

Years ago the farmers would take thier 10 yard dump trucks and pound in some wood stakes,most times just small trees and haul pulp wood in the winter months. Now everything is so big. I can remember one guy about 30 years ago still using wooden planks on the sides of his logging truck. This was only one guy,all the rest I would see would have the metal stakes.

bigred1951 · December 17, 2013, 07:37:34 PM

kylogger pretty much hit the nail on the head in so many words haha. i would pretty much do it all myself and maybe get one more person to fall the timber and help. Hey kylogger got any job openings ;D ive about had it with being stuck in routine here at this crap hole

KyLogger · December 17, 2013, 09:17:12 PM

I very well may. Got a lead on another decent 97 acre tract, a mile and a half from the mill down here! Supposed to be pretty good timber too.....Trying to get done with all the tornado blowdown, it has been a year and a half and I am still in this crap! Did find alot of good stave and veneer white oak today though.

Tom

bigred1951 · December 18, 2013, 01:20:06 AM

well if ya ever need a hand let me know me im sure i could do something useful and help on my days off. Im looking into buying a my mamaws home place in olive hill 75 acres. Been in the family since the 30s or 40s and idk if its ever been logged since then. I havent had the time to go and walk it. I was hoping if i bought to sell the timber to pay a big chunk of the loan id have to take out to buy it.