Timber-cutting patterns

denis.beliauski · February 05, 2014, 07:28:51 AM

Hi guys,

my name is Denis, I'm from Belarus, an owner of a small timber sawing and logging company.
We have started sawmilling a week ago and our operator doesn't have enough experience yet (as well as I don't have it, to be honest).
I began to look around for some patterns (schemes) of how it is better to cut a log according to each specification.
For now I have found several of them. There is a log pictured, of a certain dia) and it is divided into a number of pieces (each of the pieces has its size)m displaying how it is better to cut it, if, for example 50-150 and 25-100 is needed.

The main reason to collect several of such schemes is to provide an operator with some basics of how it should work.
Im sure we'll throw them away in a month, but for now it will be a great thing for us to start with.

I'll really appreciate it someone can share it with me.

Thanks in advance.
With best regards,
Denis Beliauski.

Ron Wenrich · February 05, 2014, 08:36:38 AM

What species are you cutting? Hardwood patterns differ from softwood patterns, as do the specs. Knot size is the defect in softwoods, and they diminish in size as you cut closer to the heart (smaller diameter in the branches). Hardwoods are for show, and the number of clear cuttings decrease as you get further into the log. That means you have to turn more often, and you want to move your heart into industrial wood, like pallet stock, ties or blocking.

What sort of mill are you using, and what sort of support equipment do you have? That can determine the best way to cut logs,. In some instances, it may be worthwhile to take a heavy flitch, then resaw it into the desired size. In other cases, it may be best to just saw it on the mill. The other factor is what sort of markets you have.

denis.beliauski · February 05, 2014, 09:30:55 AM

Quote from: Ron Wenrich on February 05, 2014, 08:36:38 AM
What species are you cutting? Hardwood patterns differ from softwood patterns, as do the specs. Knot size is the defect in softwoods, and they diminish in size as you cut closer to the heart (smaller diameter in the branches). Hardwoods are for show, and the number of clear cuttings decrease as you get further into the log. That means you have to turn more often, and you want to move your heart into industrial wood, like pallet stock, ties or blocking.

What sort of mill are you using, and what sort of support equipment do you have? That can determine the best way to cut logs,. In some instances, it may be worthwhile to take a heavy flitch, then resaw it into the desired size. In other cases, it may be best to just saw it on the mill. The other factor is what sort of markets you have.

Hi Ron.
Thanks for your response.

1. Right now we deal with softwood (fir and pine).
2. We have purchased a bandmill (11kW, 6m road, it's made in Belarus, similar to WM LT20, but not so good for sure) with WM blades (1,09-35, double-hard).
3. We have a small wagon we use for transporting logs from log deck onto the mill road.
4. Our main customers are small building companies, the main sizes are 50-150, 25-100, 100-150, 150-150, 6 meters long, so right now we just cut the log into a flitch of a necessary size and then saw it into plants.

In order to make it clear, I have uploaded some photos and place them right here -

https://forestryforum.com/gallery/index.php?cat=35384

Thanks again!

Ron Wenrich · February 05, 2014, 11:15:54 AM

You can insert your photos by hitting the link "Insert image in post". I'll throw a few in.

Now for my disclaimer. I've been a hardwood sawyer, and I've worked circle mills. So, some of my information might be off a little bit.

It seems like you have a nice pile of logs in the background. I guess you put the mill in that location to stay out of the weather. I also imagine its going to get pretty warm in the summer. Your product flow seems to be to bring a log in, roll it onto the mill, cut the log and stack onto the cart. You'll push the cart outside, then restack it. That's a loss of efficiency, and will cost you production and money. Also, you'll be shoveling sawdust. It might not be a problem, but you're limited in space. If its was me, I would want the mill higher so you don't have to stoop over too much. It makes for a long day.

As for cutting patterns, you don't want to have spike knots in your planks. It will make them weak. So, that means you want to avoid having your knots in a 45° angle. I would also avoid splitting a log in the heart, as that will give you warped lumber. When I sawed softwoods, I would take a slab, and possibly a plank off one side. That plank will have to be edged on 2 sides to make it the right width. I would then flip it 180°. Slab it and cut boards or planks to get your required width. Then roll your log 90°. You'll slab to get a flat side. Then roll 180°. I always took a slab, then live sawed the cant. It seemed to give me the best yield and I was able to run the log through in the least amount of time.

I'll move this to the sawmill section. There's bandmill and softwood sawyers there.

drobertson · February 05, 2014, 11:44:37 AM

Howdy denis, in regards to your main question as to milling patterns all I can add is there are very specific ways in optimizing yield, lots of these are computer generated by high tech scans of the logs. As for me, I try to determine what the log will best yield, exa. knotty siding, clear straight framing, and high figured lumber with fancy grain for multiple furniture uses. There are so many different ways to go about sawing out a given log I would not know where to begin in explaining, except to say start sawing and make a few notes as you go.
There will surely be plenty of input coming to you as this thread develops, david

justallan1 · February 05, 2014, 04:42:16 PM

Welcome to the forum, Denis.
I can't help much on milling patterns and me being new at sawing I feel that every log being different, the best you could do is study patterns to get a general idea.
I really like your mill set-up. For me that trolley system would be great.

Allan

kensfarm · February 05, 2014, 05:05:52 PM

I would start out simple..

Try to cut the biggest size cant out of the log first.

I slab at 1 inch increments.. larger trees give you slab wood that can be trimmed into boards.. the small log pictured would only produce slab for firewood.

Once you have the cant.. then you can decide how to cut it into lumber. Practice on some junk logs first to get the feel for the mill & sizing up a log to cut into a cant.

How cold is it there? Good luck sawing! Ken

SawyerBrown · February 05, 2014, 05:32:13 PM

Denis, I just want to say Welcome!

Pete

backwoods sawyer · February 05, 2014, 06:19:39 PM

My tape measure is not metric so I am guessing your sizes are close to a dimensional 2x6
This center cant that is being referred to should be milled to a predetermined size, (the width of your lumber 100-150) mark it out on the small end of the log, then work out from those marks by marking out just the thickness of the "Jacket" boards one two or three. That will give you the opening face of the first two sides.

Make the first set of cuts flip it 180* then 90* square the top edge then 180* and drop down the thickness until done Put all jacket boards back on and edge down to desired sizes.

One way to keep it simple is target only one size of boards for each log with a smaller fall back size to help with recovering smaller sized pieces, if you have five or six different sizes that you are trying to get out of one log it can make for more head scratching.

My disclaimer is reading and writing was not my best subject :-\ so hope you can understand my writing ;D

arnold113 · February 05, 2014, 08:42:09 PM

Welcome to the forum. Wish I could help you but I'm in the same spot as you. I'm new at sawing and I'm looking for the same info.

Magicman · February 05, 2014, 08:53:36 PM

Welcome to the Forestry forum, Denis.

Nomad · February 05, 2014, 09:22:42 PM

Welcome Denis. Some of the sizes you listed are common construction stick sizes, correct? (50x150, etc.) Here, you could never compete with the larger mills for boards like that. My suggestion would be to look at sizes people have a hard time getting. Maybe larger timbers or possibly thinner, wider lumber like 25x300. Here those wide boards, once dried and planed, cost far too much money. Maybe it's the same in Belarus?

1woodguy · February 05, 2014, 10:37:47 PM

hey welcome to the forum!
A few years ago I met a man who talked about Belarus if I recall its by poland

denis.beliauski · February 06, 2014, 03:22:19 AM

Hi, greetings from Belarus!

To Ron:
Yep, here in Belarus winter may be really severe so it's better to have a roof over your head, that's why we have put a mill in an addition.
As for summer, we are planning either to put some plantks on the ceiling rails and then put some sawdust there. It will make it warmer in winter and colder in summer, I hope.
Speaking about the product flow, I can't say nothing but agree, since it was the only opportunity to put a wagon there, in order to start production before spring. Later, I'm going to either to crash the outer wall and put a log deck just near the mill (in order to roll down logs directly on the mill road), or crash an inner wall and put n edging saw in an adjoining room and leave a wagon on its place.
For now the process seems to be absolutely unefficient, right.
As for the sawdust, it doesn't seem to be a serious problem, since we don't saw a lot of logs now.

customsawyer · February 06, 2014, 05:25:50 AM

Welcome to the forum.

denis.beliauski · February 06, 2014, 05:46:03 AM

Hi David!

Thanks, that's true - it is not possible to provide a pattern for each specific size and species and we will surely obtain experience and make lots of mistakes while sawing at the begining.
As for the log scans - it's a great thing, but we just cannot afford it to purchase right now.
Thanks, anyway!

denis.beliauski · February 06, 2014, 05:55:01 AM

Hello Allan,

Right, all these patters are mainly for getting an idea of how should be a log cut.
Also, it will help our sawmill operator to obtain a general idea of how it's better to saw for example a 20cm diameter log and a 40cm one. Either to cut 2 cants or it's better to saw several boards, etc.
Thanks for appreciation of our waggon system

Denis.

denis.beliauski · February 06, 2014, 06:16:08 AM

Hi Ken,

That's exactly the way we are sawing now.
At first we try to make the log lying straigt on the road (we fix its conicity by lifting a top with the help of short backing planks).
Then we take the most possible slim slab first, then cut a plank in order to make this side of a log flat.
Turn it 180, repeat the procedure, then turn 90 and cut several planks in order to make a cant of a certain (needed) size. Then turn it again 180 - a slab and go on cutting boards.
The most difficult thing here is to calculate how many good planks and boards can we saw till the cant is ready.
Now we just try to saw several 25mm planks from each side of a log, thus get a pile of such planks.

As for winter, usually its something like -5-10C in Dec, -10-20 in Jan and like -10 in February.
However, it was -25 for more than a half of January this time.

Thanks!
Best regards, Denis.

BBTom · February 06, 2014, 06:40:02 AM

Dennis, Does your mill have a measure on it that tells how far from the bed the blade is cutting?

If not make one that has a mark at 150mm above the bed then a mark at every 25mm above that. Once you get your log opened up so that it sits flat on the mill bed, you will know just how many 25mm boards you can make till you get to the 150 x 150 cant.

Welcome to the forum

Chuck White · February 06, 2014, 07:19:24 AM

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Denis!

Always good to get new members here.

denis.beliauski · February 06, 2014, 07:23:39 AM

backwoods sawyer, hi!

In my previous post, I have described our sawing process , so we are doing it almost as you have advised, thanks!
As for one size per log, agree - it's much more easier to cut a log into certain size boards, however, it seems that the yield will suffer, right? So I believe it is better (but more difficult, of coarse) to make a range of sizes from a log, in order to maximize the yuild.
As I have said, now we just saw 25mm planks, while making a cant and then cut a specific size from a log.

I understand you, can be sure

Thanks for your help!

denis.beliauski · February 06, 2014, 07:27:49 AM

SawyerBrown, arnold113, Magicman, 1woodguy, customsawyer, hi guys!
Thanks for your hospitality ;)

To 1woodguy:
Yep, Belarus is situated near Russia, Poland and Ukraine, your're right.

denis.beliauski · February 06, 2014, 07:38:39 AM

Hi Nomad,

your are absolutely right about the construction sizes.
Here, if you don't deal with added-value wood processing and work with softwood, it is almost impossible to run this business.
The thing is that we harvest wood ourselves, not purchase it, thus get it cheaper and can work with pine and fir now (even with construction sizes), in order to optimize our workflow and prepare our operator for work.
Then I'm planning to saw oak and other hardwood and produce furniture for retail trade (my father is a carpenter and deals with woodcarving for about last 20 years, I'm going to run this furniture busines together with him in the future).
Anyway, the following several months we will work with softwood.

Best regards,
Denis.

Ron Wenrich · February 06, 2014, 07:45:05 AM

It may be worthwhile to diagram cutting patterns out on a piece of paper before you try them out. Just make a circle, and scale things off. You'll be able to see how you can fit things in a log. The plus side to this is that it doesn't cost anything to do, and you can do it in the warm. You'll find different scenarios of how to make different products. You'll also be able to come up with a way of finding your best target numbers for starting your cuts to get your best yield. I've done this in the past, and found it helped to plan before you saw.

When you get to sawing on logs, you'll have a plan of action, but you will find times that you will have to find an alternate course. Sometimes unexpected defects will come up.

When you get to hardwoods, your sawing style and thinking changes quite a bit from sawing dimension stock. I also want to compliment you on your English. Is it used much in Belarus?