Bandmill Decision

[Rick-Wi]

I am in the market for a mill and am considering a Timber Harvester 36HT25 , Cook's Accu-Trac 36 Fully Hydraulic Portable Sawmill  and the TimberKing B-20. Any help would be appreciated in making a decision.

Thank You,
Rick-Wi

[Jeff]

Welcome Rick!

Well, I think asking that here is goona be like should I buy a Ford Chevy or Dodge. I suggest you spend some time here reading old posts in the sawmills and milling board to start.

These guys are going to want to know a lot more about where your at, what you plan to cut, why you want a saw, and many other things that will help determine what kind of saw may be right for you. Maybe not so much what brand at first, but the features you will need, which will ultimatly lead you to a choice.

[Rick-Wi]

First off, I am in SE Wi. The first and supporting Job is Excavating and Demo work. We have now 50-60 Oak logs stacked in the 24-30"+ dia. and 8-14' long. Also some huge Black walnut in the 34" dia. range 14' long. We get the logs when we do demo work and they pay us to haul and take down. Also Maple, Ash, Cherry, and some Pine. Also in the demo we get some nice old growth timbers,. We have support equipment already, and this is a logical step to take for slow periods, and inclement weather. We probabaly will cut 4,000 BF a month, maybe more. Has to be a Hydraulic, as Partner needs two knees, and can't walk good (Chicken to get opperation). Land and buildings are there, and building a kiln shouldn't be a problem.

[Tom]

Welcome Rick,

You have chosen three good mills out of a bunch of good mills.  It's hard to say which would suit your needs the best.  In a nutshell there are two things that make a mill successful:  
     1. the ability to move the blade accurately and  
     2. the friendliness of its log handling capabilities.

Since most mainline manufacturers have accomplished these, then other items of a personal nature become envolved in the decision.

Is the mill large enough to accomplish the production you expect?

Is the manufacturer going to be there when you need him?

Are parts available locally and if not, how long will it take to get them?

Is the documentation sufficient to maintain and run the mill?

Can you do the maintenance yourself or is it technical enough that you would need to hire a machine shop?

If the mill is to be stationary, what type of foundation and enclosure is required?

If the mill is to be portable:
     How quickly will it set up?
     How succeptable to vibration is it's ability to remain level?
        (Rigid frames are generally quicker and more stable than
          flexible frames)
     How large of a vehicle is needed to tow it?
     Can it be operated in the driveway of a tract home or does
        it need a farmers' field. (City-portable businesses do
        better if the sawmill looks "finished" rather than
        Industrial)

Accutrac started off being a 'knock-off" of Timber harvester but has evolved and developing a personality of its own.  I have met and visited with the Cook's and they are good people.  Tim spent a lot of time with me the day I was there and his mother invited me in the house for a sandwich at lunch.  It is not a Large company, as you may imagine, but is personable and the Cook's are friendly to deal with and customer oriented.

Timber Harvester makes a good machine.  I have watched it operate at shows and have always been impressed.  The owner of the company has no qualms with travelling to the shows and meeting customers. They have a sturdy machine that has a proven track record.  Never having been to the plant I don't know how impersonal it may be but from meeting with the owner and employees at shows I feel that they carry the same attitude as the Cooks. I was impressed with their efforts to support the entire industry with educational material, taking some of the mystic out of owning a sawmill.

Timberking has done away with a lot of trailing hoses by supplying hydraulic power with a separate engine.  That is a good idea even though it requires a second engine to maintain.  It makes for a cleaner looking machine.  One of my friends in S. Georgia has two and loves them.  He is an octogenarian and runs a stationary Timberking in his back yard, cutting large cypress and Pine.  There is no more of a limit as to what it will cut than the other two.  I met the President (I think) of the company at a show in Georgia and was impressed with his straight forwardness.  He went out of his way to not lambast other mills and was satisfied to except his mill's roll in the industry.  It is not considered to be the fastest or to have the most muscle but is built to do the job.  Timberking has a history of sawmilling and not only knows what works but stands behind it.  It has gone through Family, Corporate (Foley Bellsaw) and back to family ownership and has joined hands with the makers of Woodmaster planers for marketing efforts.  They pride themselves in customer relations.

I guess you know what application you wish the saw to perform better than me but  my opinion is that you have chosen three good saws from which to make a pick.

[Tom]

Well Rick, you and Jeff have been carrying on a conversation while I was writing my last post. :D  Now that I see what you will be doing I would suggest you shop horsepower and log handling capabilities.  You may suspect 4000 boardfeet now but I'll bet you haven't taken into consideration the number of people over and above your land clearing business that will want logs cut.

A big consideration is how fast you need the work done.  Your 4000 feet per month may need to be done in one or two days.

I have worn my joints out too :D and my last mill was purchased with it's labor saving devices in mind.(I won't recommend it)  If your partner has bad knees then definitely consider a machine that allows him to operate it from one spot and preferably from a stool or chair.

This is important
Don't skimp on horse power.  Even though 15 horse motors will cut a 30 inch log 40 or 50 horse motors will do it faster, with less effort and provide the gal. per minute hydraulic flow to get the big logs on the mill and turn them efficiently.

[Rick-Wi]

Tom, and Jeff,

Thank you for your comments. I have done my homework to a degree, and know about the mills I speak of. I didn't know about Timberking's past with Belsaw though. The TimberKing is nearest me and has setworks, No setter, sharpener or debarker, 25 hp Koler and the price is pretty good. The Cook's is next on the list 35 Hp. Wi., and has a few more Hrs. on it has the setworks, setter, sharpener and debarker. The Timber Harvester is the farthest, 30 Hp Dueitz deisel, setworks, setter, sharpener and debarker. lowest hrs. and the highest price.

Thank You,
Rick-Wi

[cut2size]

Rick,
It sounds like you are in possesion of some high dollar logs. Have you considered taking them to a hardwood mill like weyherhouser, Gergia Pacific, or one like it.  I have 2 woodmizers and I cannot realize the profit from cherry, maple, or walnut by selling finished lumber than I get in logform from a hardwood mill.  Thebig mills have a market that you will have to develope and 4000bdft a month will not be worth most large manufactors time and effort.
Now that pessimism aside,  Why are you not considering baker, woodmizer,and mobile dimension, to say nothing about the swingblade mills?  For your application, cutting 4000bdft a month, any of these mills would perform adequately and efficiently.  Of the two mills that you mentioned, I have only seen the TH and was impressed but I have also been impressed by Baker and Woodmizer.  I like woodmizer for my application,  I have a portable sawmill service and take my mills to the harvesting site. The other mills are much heavier and harder to set up at different sites.  I move my mill from one staging area to the next in fifteen to twenty minutes.  All of the mills that I listed will cut accurate lumber and the cost factor is about the same except for the swingblades.  If I were in your shoes, I would probably go with a swingblade.  Low startup cost, very little maintanence and quite productive.
David

[Rick-Wi]

David,

Yes we have thought about selling the logs, but most they are from Urban areas, and most of them make my metal detector sing. Venneer logs with metal in them are not desirable, however we wouldn't have a problem getting out the trash to saw them.

Thank You,
Rick-Wi

[timberbeast]

Welcome,  Rick,  where are ya,  and do you need a hired hand?  I run a Mobile Dimension circle mill in the U.P. of Michigan,  but with tractor trouble,  and the last snowstorm up there,  have not been cutting.  I'm in Mayville near Horicon,  your email addy sounds familiar,  were you looking to get rid of some pine logs awhile ago?  There is a log home builder on Hwy 33,  don't know if he buys them or not,  worth checking into though.  Kettle Moraine Hardwoods off 41 near K (Slinger area) may buy wood from you,  I've had some planing done there,  nice guys.

[Rick-Wi]

Timberbeast,

Yep you are right the Addy should look familiar. Asked about the Lewis winch you had on Ebay.

[Don P]

T-beast, are you talking about Denny at Kettle Morraine Homes? :D Tell him I said hey. If so he probably isn't in the raw log market he was dealing with an outfit in (Wild Rose?) but specialty stuff would be right up his alley.
Rick, I got a timberking circle mill, they are pretty good with support and I always get to talk to someone intelligent FWIW.
Tell your partner to get the knees, they've gotten alot better at it and he'll have his life back, Pa in law got both done and only regretted waiting so long.

[timberbeast]

Don,  I'm not sure of the name of the log home company,  I think it's Wilderness,  so I don't know Denny,  we missed on that one!  The Kettle Moraine reference was to Kettle Moraine Hardwoods,  a mill and lumber seller in the area,  they also sell lotsa stuff like waney slabs for mantles,  etc.  Took a few pick-ups of Cedar there to be planed,  they planed it,  banded it,  and plunked it into my p.u. with a forklift,  wish I'd have had one at home to unload it!
Dangit,  Rick,  I knew that I'd seen that addy before,  hey,  c'mon,  you shoulda bidded it up to a grand,  at least!!!!  I'm sure I told you that it was the greatest invention to grace the earth!!

[timberbeast]

Oops,  forgot,  Rick,  if you look into a Mobile Dimension,  you'll probably cut that 4000 bd. ft. in a couple days,  I think it's www.mobilemfg.com,  you're probably talking about 20 grand,  though,  new.  They'll ship F.O.B. from Oregon.  Good luck with whatever you pick!

[Frank_Pender]

Rick, timber Beast is correct.  If you had a Mobile Dimension Mill you would have the job done on a couple of days.   Your friend with the bad knees can stand in one place and operate the mill with ease.   It would really be nice with a chair and he had a "friend" to off load the lumber when it returns and well as to have them help load the logs onto the bunks for cutting.  Timber Beast was correct on the online site name.  The are great people.  I have two of their mills.  One is stationary and the other is trailerized.   The best of luck to you in your sawing venture.

[Rick-Wi]

Well I want to thank you all.. Decision is over.. Going with the Timberking B-20, Only 350 Miles from here, and the machine has only 20 Hrs on it.. It is a 2001 model. Also I am getting a Talon 900 Edger with it, that has never been used.

Thank you all for your help,
Rick-Wi

[Tom]

That'll do the job, Rick.   You will enjoy having the edger too.  That's what every bandmill operator wants if he doesn't have one.  If I milled at home I would love to have one.  I hope you keep us informed as to how you like the mill.  

[sawmill_john]

Rick-WI,
   Keep every one up to date on how the mill works for you.  As Frank, & Timber Beast said you might want to look at the Mobile Dimension Saws, If you would like to see one in operation let me know I've got several in south west WI that are fairly active.  Good luck. 8)

[Tom]

Hey Sawmill John.  Welcome to the forum!

[Rick-Wi]

Sawmill_John,

Thank you for the invite to see the mills but this (Unless something goes drastically wrong) is a done deal.. Setworks on the saw, 40 blades, Edger, $23500.00

Can't beat the price with a stick. (Dad always said there was 11 comandmants.. The normal 10 and Thou shall not pay retail was the 11th)

Rick-Wi

[Bud Man]

Rick-W ====Look like a man of action !!  Good Luck !!