Dutch Elm Disease: Kills trees fast?!

makemesoup · July 12, 2004, 10:46:47 AM

I did gone done my reading on DED, but can it take out a third of a 28" dbh mature elm in two weeks? According to these folks their tree looked great before the went to their up north cabin for two weeks. I came by the next day after their return and their elm looks like this:

I can"t reach any of the branches to check for brown streaks, but I did zoom up with my digital to capture this branch:

Is this and open or shut case or may I be jumping to conclusions? ???

beenthere · July 12, 2004, 02:08:02 PM

""I did gone done my reading on DED""

What did "reading" say about it? That it couldn't happen that fast? ???

Probably didn't all happen that fast (may have been tell-tale signs that the neighbors didn't detect earlier), but the green leaves can shut down pretty quick, IMO. Seems that is my experience with the DED anyway. Here today, gone tomorrow. Devastating to say the least.

Sylvus · July 12, 2004, 03:01:46 PM

What the tree owners notice and what actually happened is quite likely two very different things. I don't think an assumption of DED is jumping to conclusions. It's very likely. The jump from subtle flagging to major yellowing can occur in three weeks. Evidence should be available in the cambium by now. However, watching the progress might be the easiest way out. If the tree has DED, it's a goner. If it doesn't, then it might recover. In either case, little can be done, unless the owner wants to pay for pricey Alamo injections, but I don't think they work as a therapeutic, only as a propholactic.

Phorester · July 14, 2004, 06:59:13 AM

In a large geographical area where I am in northwestern Virginia, a disease called elm yellows has killed probably 90% of the elms. Hundreds of thousands. This problem extends up into Maryland,West VA, and Pennsylvania that I myself have actually seen.

In my experience, DED kills slowly, a branch at a time. Usually takes at least one season, sometimes a few years.

Elm yellows kills fast. In a matter of a few weeks the tree is completely dead.Your description conforms more to elm yellows to than to DED. No cure.

beenthere · July 14, 2004, 07:45:10 AM

Phorester
Thanks for the update on "elm yellows". I looked it up and see that there is a way to tell which it might be, and the characteristics of each. Also, that elm yellows can be isolated better than DED. Also, EY in mid to late summer, which may be of some help.
Here is just one site.
http://www.ag.uiuc.edu/cespubs/hyg/html/200214b.html

'makemesoup' may still have some forestry homework to do ;)

Ron Scott · July 15, 2004, 07:24:40 PM

Yes, try to get the elm tree checked out to be sure that it really is dutch elm disease and not something else as stated. Have the local extension forester or conservation district forester check it out for you if possible.

makemesoup · July 16, 2004, 02:20:12 PM

Since I am from a more urban section of Michigan we don't have an extension forester to serve us , and um, I AM the conservation district forester. Still a little wet behind the ears though, I started in January, and after leaving Smith tree and landscape from Lansing 4 years ago, only work I could get back home was in construction materials testing which I did for three years. Then the FAP grants emerged and when I caught wind of them I knew it was my chance to escape measuring the compressive strength of concrete cylinders.
So now I am here juggling site visits, workshops, "inter-agency meetings", and community assistance (tree-planting and grant-interpretation amoung other things.) Tommorow, I will be give a tree-maintenance informational meeting at the clinton spill-way to MSU Master Gardners, then assist with tree pruning for some trees they planted 3 years ago. (Yeah , it's a Saturday :()
I checked out some DED information on the web, but I never caught on how quick it could take defoiliate if the disease had spread though the tree. So my apologies to beenthere since I haven't donethat. ;) But with my bachelor's in Forestry accomplished five years ago, some of what you don't use, you lose. I try to read up on the week-ends but having seven months (They hired late) to perform a year's worth of project deliverables + dial-up modem at office which server shuts down often+ plus constant phone calls+ plus assisting DNR with technical assistance for local municipalites+ lack of solid experience makes stopping to do throughal research hard in the middle of the week. Hence, I thought "Ask A (fellow,more experienced) Forester" was a tempting avenue of professional assistance.

Well, that's one way to eat up a break. Back to work. :D
P.S. Thanks for the tips! :

P.S.S. I don't know why I was compelled to share all that, just don't get to chat with the other FAP foresters much (or any for that matter), I know most everyone on this forum are extreamely busy right now, and my position may seem like a vacation to some. But nonetheless typing that kept my little deliverables in perspective. ;)

Shotgun · July 16, 2004, 06:20:19 PM

Have to reply to this one. I, too, worked for Smith Tree and Landscape Service, but it was just over half way into the last century. Interestingly, my job there was spraying elm trees for DED with huge rotomist sprayer. We sprayed yard/street/pvt/public trees. Now here comes my friend, Ron Scott, into the thread. Ron and I were in forestry school together. I spent 35 years with the Michigan Dept. of Agriculture. Thankfully, none othose years in SE Michigan, however. Yup, DED can happen pretty fast, even a couple of weeks, but the symptoms were likely present for a longer period of time. Many home-owners aren't that observant.

Makemesoup, where'd you serve your time? (school)

makemesoup · July 16, 2004, 06:51:41 PM

B.S. in Professional Forestry from Michigan State University.
Class of 99'.
Good times, good classes, great and mediocre professors, some great technical lessons, some lukewarm field excercises. And $1 Black Labels and $3 delicious hamburgers at the peanut barrel. :

Ron Scott · July 17, 2004, 06:10:36 PM

Soup,

Did you have any classes with Dr. Larry Leefers at MSU?

Shotgun should be able to help you ID that Dutch Elm disease for sure or direct you to someone in the State Ag. or Forest Health unit that can.

Do do know Frank Sappio with the Michigan DNR? He heads up Forest Health and Pest Management for the MDNR.

makemesoup · July 19, 2004, 07:30:15 PM

Yeah, I know I took Natural Resources Policy and Planning with Dr. Leefers, he also taught the Michigan Forests course.
He was a good professor who was willing to work with you, unlike a couple who who only let you talk to their assistants.

I don't believe I have ever met Frank Sappio, but I have come across Roger Mech on more than one occasion, I think he is in Frank's department.

I plan on stopping by that "DED" site this friday and see how the tree is progressing. I may cut into the cambium to look for discoloration if the land owner gives me consent. If I come up with nothing I bet Roger could help me out one way or another. If Shotgun wants to throw me a name and number, I won't be bashful to call if I don't have any luck. Otherwise , waiting until next season and observing it is an option since it is so close to my Macomb office. ;)

Jeff · July 19, 2004, 08:28:25 PM

makemesoup, do you know Kerry Grey?

makemesoup · July 20, 2004, 11:18:57 AM

Yeah, I talked with her this morning as a matter of fact. My FAP grant has me knee-deep in EAB Technical Assistance and grant notification. We both sit on the Forest Restoration Committee so I talk to her quite a bit. The committee is planning a large mid-west symposium for states that have or are anticipating EAB Infestation. We plan to have post cards mailed out in first week of August. Right now the symposium is set for Oct 14-15 th in Novi, MI. When we finialize the details I could mail the info and registration to anyone interested. It's forming to be a great workshop that discusses grants, budgets, treatments, biology/research, site visits/ wood utilization demos and discussion and will have two tracks of the Haves and the Have Nots, so people won't be hearing the same stuff they may have seen from an MDA presentation. We haven't nailed a price down yet, that will be influenced by speaker costs. Anyone interested can e-mail me at sal.hansen@macd.org.
(Plus I was an undergrad at state when Kerry was doing her graduate work.)

Jeff · July 20, 2004, 01:27:46 PM

Well sey Hey from me. Kerry and I are ole buds from the tree of hope project (U.S. Holiday tree). Better yet, tell her to get on here.

Ron Scott · July 20, 2004, 06:11:41 PM

Yes, Roger Mech can help you for sure.

Dr. Leefers use to work for me back in the early 1980's before he received his PHD and joined the MSU faculty. He's and excellent analyst and forest modeler.

SwampDonkey · July 25, 2004, 02:32:22 PM

I'm no authority on the disease, but I consider myself very observant. I have noticed that in younger trees the disease spreads rapidly and in older mature trees it perisists for 2 or 3 years, sometimes killing one major branch at a time. The neighbor had a quite large elm on his woodlot that we measured as 11.5 feet in circumference at 6 feet off the ground. They did harvesting around the tree by clearcutting and I suppose the roots got damaged to on the elm as it was left standing. In 3 years it was a dead stub. Most all our mature elms are dead now. I have 2 immature elms behind the house which are about 30 feet tall, seem healthy so far. My grand father had a elm on his lawn for years and what he did to thwort the disease was to auger a 1/2 inch diameter hole into the xylem at a slant. He fit a piece of PVC into the hole to keep the wound open and he would pour terpentine into the tube which would by taken up by the xylem into the crown. I dunno how effective this was, but it survived all the years he did this. Then for about 20 years he didn't bother with it and in 1993 it died, but it was a 3 year progression. About 60 years ago the area was flurishing with mature elm trees, now mostly all gone. The city of Fredericton has an intensive program to keep the disease under control. It has been quite successfull, and I think they plant disease resistant elms as well.