Cobalt to the rescue!

[FarmingSawyer]

Got to the mill this morning and did a bunch of edging.... Got that log which rolled off the mill Thursday back on the deck after a while and finally got to cutting it. Got the 1st face opened and began slabbing away to get this monster down a ways. Rolled it 180˚ with the tractor, took off a slab and a 1x. Was just thinking about changing to a sharp blade when I heard that tell-tale, snick, snick, snick....Oh #Y#$(*#@! Pulled the board off the cant and sure enough....several nails bedded deep in. Tree was around 75 years old and sometime in the early 70's...someone began to pound nails to it.

I dug those nails out so they wouldn't ruin the next boards lower down, and was just thinking about putting on that sharp blade...when I wandered over and had a look at the rest of the stack I was going to cut today.....sure enough....a whole range of equal sized butt logs all forking at about the same height....hmmm....quick chat with the homeowner, and sure enough...those trees grew in a cluster. Nails, tree cluster= tree fort!

I threw on the cobalt blade instead and continued to saw. Only hit 3 more nails in that log, but as I got to squaring up a cant to cut flooring from, I got to thinking that the cobalt blade doesn't really love wide, knotty pine....a bit wavy at the big knots. I decided to cut the cant oversized on 2 faces and once I was sure it was clear of nails to switch blades and finish cutting.

Then I realized I might as well just leave the cobalt blade on and cant up ALL the logs from that tree cluster. I set the first cant aside and loaded up another log. Sure glad I moved to that option. I kept my speed up processing logs, kept my good sharp blades for re-sawing the cants into wide plank flooring. Even with setting the cants aside for later I think I'm ahead of the game.

I managed to saw 5 14x14 cants only today. Hit around 60 nails--stopping to dig out as many as I could each time I found them. Some of the nails were in clusters of 6 and 8..... Some were small as 6d, most were 16d, but there were some 60d spikes and a couple of lag bolts. After the lag, the cobalt blade began to wander a bit....that, fortunately was near the end of the day. I cleared that log of hardware and set it aside for re-saw and quit for the day. I'm going to try to sharpen the cobalt band tomorrow with my dremel and a milling bit........ It sure saved me a bunch of trouble and kept some valuable lumber from being wasted.

Btw....if I hadn't of had to dig out the nails, even with making every rotation of the log with the tractor, log scale vs hourly was neck-in-neck today.


Ooopps.....Quittin time....


 

On deck and ready to open....27" on the top.....A bit of crook, but was chancing it that the heart was good. And it was!
`

 

Some of the last nails I blitzed through...absolutely no sign of them anywhere on the outside of the log...buried deep. I'm getting quite a jar of hardware....


 

[bandmiller2]

Dang good thing kids don't have nail guns. I pounded my share as a young-un now there back to haunt me. Frank C.

[FarmingSawyer]

Frank, I was thinking that yesterday too.....some poor S.O.B (Sweet Old Bear) is gonna cuss my name if he ever goes to cut those massive beeches behind where I grew up......

[sealark37]

A ten year-old with a claw hammer can drive more nails in two hours than a grown carpenter can in two days.  Regards, Clark

[Magicman]

I have often had customers to ask things like "wonder how those nails got in that tree"?  I usually answer with "when you were 10 years old and had a hammer and three nails, where did you put them"?  They just laugh and say, "yup it was me".  :D  The fact is that those nails were going somewhere.   ;D

[drobertson]

"No, there are no nails in them!"  echo's through the air! ;D  Really!?  It never really ends.   And I am as guilty as any 10 year old, and have paid for it ever since :D

[Delawhere Jack]

Some of the last nails I blitzed through...absolutely no sign of them anywhere on the outside of the log...buried deep. I'm getting quite a jar of hardware....

Did the jar thing for a while myself...... The novelty wears off quickly though.  :( Never came close to 60 nails in a day, so I guess I've got nothing to complain about. ;)

[FarmingSawyer]

Well....I was too cleaver by 1/2. I had a whole stack of cants after wearing out the cobalt blade. I sawed up some nail free logs and decided it was time to resaw the cants....the 1st 3 went very well. I evened them up and began making boards. The 4th one was slicing up nice and then I tore of 3 teeth on a row of nails..... Dang things were bedded deep....no sign of them in that far. Must have been a multi-generational treehouse...... Changed to my last sharp blade and cleared another can, only to take out a row of aluminum nails and 20d with dove the blade into the next board before I knew what was happening. (*^#$(^@R(#!!!!!!! Off to the saw shop.....

Luckily I am working within 30 miles of a saw shop which sharpens bands for the big mills... They sell timberwolf bands and service them. I'd dropped off 4 bands a week or more ago. I get there and they rejected 3 of the bands--their machine is too fussy for them..... So I picked up the one resharp and a new band. I dropped off 6 bands to be sharpened.... Buddy has a look at them and rejects the cobalt band....they won't do them. Says he'll have the rest done by Monday....Great I don't work Fri, Sat or Sun.....

I thought 2 bands would be good for the rest of today and tomorrow, with the logs I have left in the one pile and edging and moving and stacking, etc..... I almost wnet back for a couple more.....1st mistake.....

I get back, throw the resharp band on the mill, am cutting away and hit some big aluminum nails... and then a )%#^&$ hook.....takes that one out. I throw one of the rejected bands on--I'd taken them off before they were totally dull.... BTW....each time I hit iron, I stop and dig it out of the cant with a chisel, hammer and vise grips...the boards are too nice to waste all of....
I saw through the remaining board, clean up the face and looks good. I flip the cant 180 when I hit the pitch, throw on a the new band and snick snick snick....still cutting good....took out some brads.

I put the final cant--supposedly clean and the last of the naily trees--I don't cut 3 boards off of it and wham! 2 60d's and a bunch of other stuff. Toasted the new blade. Shut down for the day. I throw back on the old blade and take out another nail and make a few wavy boards to clear the cant of iron. I get out the dremel to have a go, again, at trying to put an edge on an dull blade--haven't had much luck so far--look at the clock and decide I'll run the 2 bands, which I just picked up, back to the saw shop and get a couple of new ones for tomorrow..... I made it just in time and got 3 new bands...... Hopefully tomorrow I won't run in to any iron!

[Delawhere Jack]

Imagine how happy you'll be when you only find one 4d nail in a log!  :D

Welcome to The Wonderful World of Bandmilling Yard Trees.  :

Wait till you hit a hardened masonry nail......... Heeheehee....

[FarmingSawyer]

Delaware, I'm no stranger to hardware in trees....and I'm pretty sure these weren't yard trees...unless there was a house there no one knew about.....I'm thinking now this was from a deer stand in the woods...Long ago..... or some kid's tree fort built on the ruins of his grandfather's tree fort.....

The worst things to hit with a mill aren't iron at all....I was reminded today talking at the saw shop.... telegraph insulators...or porcelain  fence insulators....they'll wrap a band inside out in a hurry! Files are another thing which will tear a blade apart.....we once hit a file deep in a huge doug fir with a circular saw.....sent all the teeth & inserts flying like bullets.....stopped the 451 dead and smoked the clutch...... Some old boy in the 1880's stuffed his saw file in a sapling which he was bucking kiln wood and forgot about it..... Not too far away from where that tree was harvested in the forest we looked up one day and saw an old whip saw sticking out of a 42" DBH tree about 10 feet up..... Someone leaned that things against a tree and forgot about it......sticking out almost clear through on 1/2 the tree.....

[Magicman]

I am still trying to figure out what was so valuable about those logs that they needed sawing ??  Some "logs" need to be firewood or pushed into a burn pile.

we looked up one day and saw an old whip saw sticking out of a 42" DBH tree about 10 feet up..... Someone leaned that things against a tree and forgot about it....

It might have been left in a limb crotch 10 feet off of the ground, but it was not leaned against the tree.   ;D

[FarmingSawyer]

I am still trying to figure out what was so valuable about those logs that they needed sawing ??  Some "logs" need to be firewood or pushed into a burn pile.

Nearly clear pine wide enough to make plank flooring....even with the hardware and hassle it's cheaper than buying it....

we looked up one day and saw an old whip saw sticking out of a 42" DBH tree about 10 feet up..... Someone leaned that things against a tree and forgot about it....

It might have been left in a limb crotch 10 feet off of the ground, but it was not leaned against the tree.   ;D

I don't know....that thing was buried in the tree and as the tree grew, it got higher..... Reminds me of the time I felled a huge veneer grade birch and as I watched it fall I noticed something just off to the side of where the tree landed....something swaying on a young sapling..... Deep in the woods, 50 years since any logging and at least 20 years since anyone ventured there for anything but a nature walk, was a 1940's vintage pulp hook with a badly decayed wooden handle.....grown into an inch round sapling......I'm still baffled as to how that got there, several feet off the ground.....

[beenthere]

that thing was buried in the tree and as the tree grew, it got higher....

Things placed in trees, such as fence wire, hook on a limb, etc. do not move higher as the tree grows. Trees grow from the tip up and out.

So what is buried, hung, or placed... just remain at that height over time. ;)

[petefrom bearswamp]

I agree with magicman.
what species pine are these logs?
You said nearly clear pine but the pic shows some really big knots are going to appear.
Junk those logs as you have obviously lost $ in the destroyed blades.

[FarmingSawyer]

I agree with magicman.
what species pine are these logs?
You said nearly clear pine but the pic shows some really big knots are going to appear.
Junk those logs as you have obviously lost $ in the destroyed blades.

These are white pines. Nothing horribly great, but...... tall, straight pines can be rarity around here. Pine weevil gets into them and they become a twisted gnarly mass. Often the butt log isn't even 6 ft before the mess begins.

That one log has two big knots and a few tiny ones. The other cut spot was a burl I was trying to save...... I rolled the log to saw those knots out. By putting them on the corner of the cant they virtually disappeared leaving really exceptional boards.

Using the cobalt blade I was able to cant up all the 3 or so 16ft logs with nails and a 12 & 14 before the blade was toast. There were five more nails hidden in the cants when I went to resaw them, which took out another 2 blades--not bad, just in need of resharp. I charge $15 each instance for a nail hit or the cost of a blade if it takes out even one tooth. If there are more than one nail in a face and the blade is ok, I just charge the $15....If I suspect more nails in the log then I throw on a cobalt and cut through and charge the cost of the blade which amounts to a huge savings for the client and less hassle for me. So to cut this 1500bf of logs cost the owner an extra $100. I charge by the hour when I hit hardware, and I was anyway because of the nature of the logs I'm cutting and the fact that I have to retrieve them from several piles away from the mill.

Even with the hassle of the blade changes, etc and my time...costing everything, these boards came out to just under $.35/bf Which is less than if I had been charging by the bf....... The owner is happy and likes the character of the wood, and has a story to tell. I get paid what I would for any other job with or without nails.....It's all in how you present it to the client.

Once we were into the nails we were committed to it. There was possibly no way to tell there was hardware in the tree. I looked them over when I peeled the dirty bark off and didn't see obvious signs. And the nails were buried so deep in the tree I don't think a metal detector would have found them. I didn't begin hitting them till 4 or 5" were slabbed off the outside of the opening 2 faces. The owner found out, by asking some old timer neighbors, that indeed 45 years ago there was a young lad on the farm. He's now a carpenter!! One of the other trees from the woods must have been a deer stand from about the same time.

[Magicman]

OK, it was not obvious from your OP that you were sawing a customer's logs.  As long as the customer says saw, then I saw.   It's his logs, his blades, and his $$$.   ;D

[32vld]

I am not a professional though I would like to own a sawmill for personal use.

So the first thought is with the cost of blades, lost time, would it not be better to go over the logs with a metal detector?

[Magicman]

I carry two metal detectors with me and it is the customer's option and responsibility to use them.  I do not scan customer's logs because that might shift the metal responsibility over to me.  His logs and his metal.   ;D

[JJ]

I find this random image:
A boy left his bike chained to a tree when he went away to war in 1914. He never returned, leaving the tree no choice but to grow around the bike. This bike has been there for 100 years now. By Todd Bates on Flickr


 

Not sure if there would be any bike left after a century in weather.

       JJ

[beenthere]

FYI

Although text is commonly associated with pictures of the tree claiming that the bicycle was left chained to it by a boy who went off to war in 1914, the bike is not nearly that old, nor was it left behind by a young man setting off to take part in World War I. According to the Vashon-Maury Island Beachcomber, the bicycle was left behind in the mid-1950s by a local resident who simply abandoned it:

And more about the bike's history here:

http://www.snopes.com/photos/natural/bicycle.asp

But very interesting place for a bike to end up.

[petefrom bearswamp]

Pretty obvious that that bike was a much later vintage than 1914.
Looks like my first one from maybe the late 40's or perhaps even later

[Delawhere Jack]

Small nails, BIG nails, barbed wire, fence wire, screw eyes, lag bolts, files, saws, aircraft cable, bricks, BICYCLES!?!?!, musket balls, jacketed bullets, ceramic insulators, railroad spikes, rocks, axe heads, iron pipe, expired squirrels  ,

Kinda makes me want an office job again.............

NOT! ;D

[FarmingSawyer]

Ok...So given what I just re-learned here....stuff left in trees don't grow upwards with the tree...that bike musta been stuck up on that limb by some Brylcream Bully for lunch money and the lil kid who owned never went back..... That bike is up too high for the kid who would ride it to put it up there.....And definitely NOT from 1914...

MagicMan....how deep do your detectors go? I've tried in the past to detect metal in logs, but never had much success if it was buried in the 6-8 inches of heart on a 22" or greater tree... I've gotten pretty good at reading trees from the bark for hardware if it's been put there in the last 20 yrs or so.....

[Magicman]

but never had much success if it was buried in the 6-8 inches of heart on a 22" or greater tree...

Me either.  That is one reason that I offer the metal detector to the customer, but I do not take responsibility for the metal in his logs.  Yes, the bark will tell you much about the tree's history.

There was a very recent thread about metal detectors.  A forum search will find it plus the links to several detectors.

[barbender]

I think that Beenthere is wrong on that (with all due respect ;)). I remember a wire clothes line that was on a tree in our yard when I was a kid, about 4' or 5' up. It was about 10' up when the tree blew down a couple years back (it was a big red pine).