Useful sawmill mods

[DanG]

#1, pretty much. ;D

[VA-Sawyer]

I hope everybody takes my challenge with a smile. The truth is that I would like to see more input from the circle mill folks. There are enough close-up photos of WM mills on the Forum that I think I could build one from scratch even if I had never seen one in person.  I'm pretty confident that if I had Tom's Baker or FDH's Home-Mizer parked here for a day, that I could figure out how to make 'em run well enough to saw a little wood. It might not be the straightest wood, and I wouldn't be bragging about my production rate, but I would have them sawing.  If you dropped of a Corley or a MD circular mill...... well, I wouldn't have any idea where to start. I'd be pretty afraid of getting some red sawdust as well. To tell the truth, I couldn't even tell if it was a Corley or a MD unless it was on a label somewhere. (I really need to spend a day watching Woodhaven run his mill.)  
Jeff, Please don't send me a nastygram ! Yes, I know that I'm stirring up a little trouble with this, and I'm on thin ice. I'm really trying to get their pride fired up enough that they will start posting some pictures to educate this big mouth Know Nothing.  ;D
Signed,
The Big Mouth Know Nothing   ;)
VA-Sawyer
  

[Bruce_A]

One of the biggest differences between band and circle mills, is not apparent to band operators, there is no time to worry where to park that coffee cup with a circle mill.  When you are done sawing you have sawdust in direct proportion to lumber to clean up. :

[Bibbyman]

E-Al,  

Looks like a lot less water would be pulled into the cant with your mod. I'd like to know if you noticed any improvement or detriment in the performance of the water/detergent to clean the blade when the tube was relocated after the cant?  



Also,  what's that mud flap do that's after the blade guide and before the drive wheel?

[VA-Sawyer]

E-Al,
Don't feel bad Al. I just had to do a lot more inventing to get my mill up to snuff. You know...that thing about Necessacity (sp ) being the Mother of Invention. I had a lot of need and no money.  ;)
I'm interested in your relocated hose. I used to need water to help keep my blade from heating up too much and losing tension. Discovered that there was a slight mis-alignment between my two guides. With the heating problem fixed, I'm looking for a way to put less water in the wood. Like Bibbyman said, how well is it working for you?
I have a question about your "mudflap", is it just ducttape, or is it ducttape wrapped around something? I've been thinking of putting some kind of brass scraper just before the inboard guide. This would keep the sawdust from being crushed between the blade and guide roller. The mudflap sure looks easier...... is there much room for improvment in performance?  If the mudflap is solving 95% of the sawdust problem, I not going to spend the extra time needed to get that last 5%. What is your opinion ?
VA-Sawyer

[ex-racer]

The truth is that I would like to see more input from the circle mill folks.

I would also like to exchange ideas and information with other circle mill folks.  It would seem that we are outnumbered. :D

I can't call this a mod, as my mill is home-built, but this feature, which we call a "breast roller", is what I use to set my board thickness, after the cant is slabbed. The distance the roller is from the saw is adjustable (1/4" per handle turn) and it flips out of the way for slabbing.

Do any of you circle sawyers use one?

If I were to add a modification, it would be some way to get rid of the sawdust (my main aggravation - don't suggest a bandmill  ;D ;D).
Which would you recommend - a blower or conveyor belt system?

Ed

[jdunmyer]

X-Racer,
 I personally use a sawdust drag (see the pics on my website) with an overhead return run. The latter is something that I've only seen on one other mill; that's where I stole the idea from. It's MUCH better than the usual, with both runs of the chain going under the track frame. The main reason is that it gets the tail sprocket well away from below the blade, where it almost never gets a piece of bark into it to knock the chain off.

Blowers are OK, but they take a lot more power; my drag uses a 1/3 Hp motor instead of the 5 Hp that a blower would require.

The reason you don't see your roller setup on other mills is because their setworks eliminate the need for such.

One very important feature of a circle mill is the table just behind the saw mandrel. It must be VERY close to the blade to prevent anything falling into the crack. Such debris will bind and end up going through the roof or worse, coming back atcha. Don't ask me how I know this.

See http://www.oldengine.org/members/jdunmyer for pics of my mill.

[VA-Sawyer]

That's better.... that ice is a little thicker, but it's not safe yet. We need more posts from the others.....
VA-Sawyer

[ElectricAl]

Bib,

Adding water to the blade after the cut actually helps cool the blade better with less water. The water also cleans and cools the roller. The roller helps distribute and apply the water across the band body. The factory system dribbles water on a slick metal surface moving a 5500 surface feet per minute. Not too much actually sticks. Our way the band gets wet and stays wet all the way around. We can see water spray coming off the movable roller. ;D

The biggest down fall of our system is if too much water is used, then wet saw dust will build up under the 19" wheel. It does not effect the cut, but must be cleaned out when changing blades.

With fresh cut logs we have no build up. But with old logs or Ash we really apply a bunch of water.


The new Lube-Mizer has addressed the application problem with a power mist. The smaller droplets are more likely to stick to the moving blade.


The mud flap keeps saw dust and bark from getting under the V belt and making a bump.

Like you and Mary, we saw a ton...well TONS of Walnut and Cherry and the bark was constantly getting under the V belt. 4 to 6 pieces a day >:(.  New belts, old belts did not matter.




VA-Sawyer,

The Handy Man's Secret Weapon Duct Tape

Four layers ;)

50 cents in tape will save an hour in cleaning per semi load ;D

100% effective for 10,000'  
But if in doubt, change it out :D


Many years ago we also added a water solenoid. It opens only when the saw head is moving forward. That helped save water. Then applying just enough water to the left side helped more.

The solenoid cost $70 back when ever WM started to add them to the new sawmills. I had heard about the new solenoid and tried to order it. WM had to issue a part number for it and have one transfered from the assembly shop to the shipping dept. Before CS could sell it.


Both ideas are cheap and easy to try. If you don't like it, just switch it back

[ex-racer]

jdunmyer,

I really enjoyed your website. Lots of good info there for the circle sawyer. Actually, I had visited it before, following a link from the "Old Engine" site.

Electric Al,

The Handy Man's Secret Weapon Duct Tape

Our buddy, Red Green, would be pleased. ;D

Ed

[Junior437t]

Has anyone used a pump such as a winshield washer pump, to pressurize the water for the blade? I realize you can buy a Lubmizer but is it necessary?

[spokeshave]

Has anyone used a pump such as a winshield washer pump, to pressurize the water for the blade? I realize you can buy a Lubmizer but is it necessary?

I did exactly that on my Norwood. I ran into a couple of problems, but they were easily solved. I rigged a roller switch on the carb throttle linkage that triggers the pump when I open the throttle, but I also installed a master cut-off switch  on the back panel so I can easily turn off the water completely if I want to.

I ran into the following problems:

1) The pump pumped *way* too much water through the 1/8" copper pipe that points down onto the blade. I was surprised at how much water the $19 universal washer pump could move. To solve this, I crimped the end of the pipe flat with a pair of pliers. This had two beneficial effects - first, it reduced the flow, and it spreads the water out into a fan shape that covers the entire width of the blade nicely. Also, it sprays with a fair amount of force that does a good job of cleaning the blade.

2) The pump does not have a positive water shut-off. Once you run the pump for the first time, and load it with water, it will continue to drip, even once the pump is shut off. In a car, the washer pump and tank are always below the nozzles, so gravity prevents continuous flow once the pump is shut off. On my mill, there was no way I could easily place the pump and tank below the nozzle. At first, I figured I could overcome this by running the supply hose out of the top of the tank, thereby letting gravity stop the flow as the water goes up out of the tank. That didn't work, since a siphon was created and the drip continued. To solve this problem, I placed a check valve in the water supply line. I got it from an auto parts store. The valve is actually designed to prevent air from coming back up a vacuum line, but it requires a small but sufficient amount of forward pressure to cause the valve to open. So, when the pump is on, there is enough water pressure to open the valve, but when the pump is off, the valve closes, and the siphon pressure is not enough to open it. Works great.

This has been a very helpful mod. As many people know, the lube system on the Norwood is not its strong point. This was a vast improvement.

One note of caution. The instructions that came with the pump said it should not be operated for more than 5 seconds at a time, and that it should be allowed to cool for 20 seconds between uses. I routinely exceed these guidelines, so I suppose the pump will not last too long. I anticipated this and made the pump easy to replace.

I have about 100 hours or so on the pump and so far it has not shown any signs of failure. So far, so good.

I will try to get some pics this weekend.

Tim

[Gilman]

I'd like to see someone add to Spokeshave's mod and use a wiper delay.  That way you have ON/OFFand a variable pulse.   ???

If someone does it I want a photo of that switch mounted (without shortening switch extension) on the mill.   ;D

[AtLast]

"But I never intended this thread to be mods exclusively for and on Wood-Mizer mills.  Surely some of you Timber-King,  Baker, Peterson, Double Cut, etc. owners have made some mods to your mills also. Tell us about them.. "



Um Bibby.....Us NON Orange guys dont have ta do any mods...our mills were built right the first time.... ;D :D

[Bibbyman]

AtLast,  Bruce_A done hinted as such.  AND I expected someone would. :D

[AtLast]

 ;D

[Kevin]

(where's that wacky guy that put sled runners under his LT15?)

That's one of the nicest things anyone has ever said about me.  :D

[VA-Sawyer]

Kevin ,
How about some more info and close-up pictures on the sledmill.  How well did it work out?  How heavy is a LT-15 ?
VA-Sawyer

[Bibbyman]

Maybe Kevin can link back to the old post.. That would tell all the story.. :P

[jdunmyer]

Spokeshave,
 I've used this pump:

http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares.asp?MerchantID=RET01229&Action=Catalog&Type=Product&ID=82089

from http://www.micromark.com to transfer water from a tote tank to my travel trailer for several years now. It's submersible, so runs cool as long as it's covered. It's 12VDC, so should work in your application just fine.

Electric Al,
 There's only 2 items in my "emergency" tool box:

Duct Tape for stuff that moves and shouldn't

WD-40 for stuff that doesn't move and should

I seldom need anything else for normal emergencies.

                             <<Jim>>

[Kevin]

I'm not sure I have any other pictures of the saw on skis but I'll have a look.
The LT-15 is a little heavy for a snowmoble as small as the Tundra but it will work on a groomed trail and a cold day.
I have since bought an Argo and it pulls the saw without hesitation.
The tires sit on the skis, they have a little box welded to the top of the ski and the tire just sits in it with a winch strap around the tire to hold it to the ski.
The ski on the front just slides in and out of a bracket bolted to the tongue.
It's cowboy simple and works good.

[MULE_MAN]

KEVIN

A Saw Mill on  skis, Now that really takes the cake 8)

I wish I had a big picture of that . I would hang it in my Saw Mill Shed, That's really Neat  8) 8)

[Bibbyman]

You may remember back a few pages on this post where I took on the task of linking in the manual back supports on our Wood-Mizer LT40HD Super mill.  I got the more forward one done and I'm happy to report it's working well and we've had no failures or problems with it.  It's been a big help – even when sawing 8' logs that sometimes load a little too far back.

  
Here is the link to the earlier post on how I modified the first manual back support.

But the job was only half done.   To be able to make better time sawing short – 5-7' logs,  the other back support needed to be powered too.  Well,  after much thought and planning and a few heartbreaks,   I've done it.  And here is how I did it.

First off,  I want to say I think there is a better way.  And I don't think how I got it to work on our stationary mill will work on a mobile mill with an axle assembly.   I'm still thinking on that one.



I started by "reverse engineering" the lever on the standard powered back support.  I sent a CAD drawing to a friend and customer who teaches at a technical school that teaches robotics, automation, etc.   He cut me out two samples to try on a CNC milling machine.   This one was almost done when the tool broke – leaving about 1/32" left to cut out.  He sent it along just in case.



I next cut the friction stops off'n the manual back support and ground off the paint in the area to be welded.  I also pulled the grease fitting as it would be in danger of being welded over or at least too close to the lever to use.



I then used the best fixturing I could rig to position the lever to the back support – square and aligned to the back edge of the support.  I tack welded the lever to the back support and went out for a dry fit.

At this point my little heart broke.  All the planning and measuring and figuring and it wasn't going to work.   It was clear there was no way to fit the tie rod I'd planned to put between the existing tie rod and the main frame tube.  Just too tight.   Mary and I brainstormed a bit.  She said to put the manual back support back and think on it awhile.  I was about ready to agree,  then I realized,  there was plenty of room to put the tie rod on the outside of the existing tie rod.  But ... how to get the transfer of push/pull from the outside to the inside?  I  came up with an idea to "saddle" the main tie rod.



Here is the part I fabricated.   (Now you know why I wouldn't think of building my own mill.)  



It started out as 4 pieces of  1/4"x 1-1/4" x 2" bar stock, and 1/4"x 1-1/4" x 4" bar stock.  I notched the 4 short pieces so I could set the head of a short 1/2-20 machine bolt into them and welded the bolts in place.  The two formed the right and left side while the 1/4"x 1-1/4" x 4" bar made up the top.   By trial and error,  it was trimmed and ground until it fit over the tie rod and missed everything on it's swing.



Here they are welded up but before the top chunk was welded on.



Here are the modified parts – after many tries and adjustments here and there.  There is just not any room to spare.



Here is a shot from overhead without the saddle and tie rod in place.  You can see the is scant room for movement. The existing tie rod runs right through everything like a water pipe under a tree.  It not only moved forward and back,  it also moves up and down as the levers swing.  As it is now,  the tie rod rubs in places.  



The cylinder would have cleared but the extra long pin WM used could slide an inch or more left and right – easily blocking the travel of the lever.   I replaced the factory pin with a shorter one of another design that I happened to have on hand.  It is pin retained by a snap clip in a groove.  Alas,  I had only one retainer clip and had to go to town and get another – plus a short stack of 1" washers to shim the pin as far to the outside as possible.



After much dry fitting and checking,  I made up the tie rod.  Two 1/2" ball ends,  14" of 1/2"-20 threadall and 12" of 1/2" heavy wall pipe.  I used the two ends with just the threadall until I was happy with the length adjustment.   Then I took it off the mill and measured the distance between the ends and cut the rod to that length.  Then assembled the pipe over the threadall and screwed the ends down tight.



Here is a shot from the inside.



Here is the "4-up and 4-down" shot.  Looks like it's going to work.   I'll update you after we've ran with it a while.


 8)

[DR Buck]

WOW!    8)


As a mechanically challenged person, all I want to know is when the WM retrofit kit is due to come out!

[Gilman]

Way to go Bibby.  Thanks again for the design work. Could you get the G-Code for the new arm from your machinist friend?

This isn't a sawmill mod, but more of a safety concern.  A couple of week ago I broke the front jack off the trailer by not lifting it up when driving away.  The trailer is about 50 miles from my house and I just did a quick repair and only replaced the top two carriage bolts.  I didn't replace the bottom two because I would have to remove the hydraulic power strip to get to the old bolts out and the new bolts in.

Well, I was packing up the mill yesterday and brought the saw head all the way back to the tongue.  Here's where the excitement began.  The front jack buckled, spinning the frame towards me and falling until the frame hit the ground.  It woke me up better than a pot of expresso.  Good thing WM added those little carriage containment blocks to the bottom of the carriage.