Clearing Stumps.... best equipment??

[mesquite buckeye]

Nobody has suggested ammonium nitrate and diesel fuel to loosen them. franken-smiley

The neighbors used 1/4 stick of dynamite dug in and repacked. Flipped them right out. ;D

And you don't need a 100,000K or better machine to do it. Just a drive bar, cap and a bit of fuse. ;D

Ahhh, the good old days. ;D 8) 8) 8)

[luvmexfood]

Nobody has suggested ammonium nitrate and diesel fuel to loosen them. franken-smiley

The neighbors used 1/4 stick of dynamite dug in and repacked. Flipped them right out. ;D

And you don't need a 100,000K or better machine to do it. Just a drive bar, cap and a bit of fuse. ;D

Ahhh, the good old days. ;D 8) 8) 8)

*mesquite* I thought along the same lines. Just didn't mention it. Little dynamite and done. Lot of dynamite and be extra sure to be out of the way when they come back down.

Papaw used to tell me the story of back in the 50's when he worked in the coal mines. If you needed some dynamite just put it in your lunch pail and bring it home. They would get several guys together, take several sacks, and a little dynamite and go to the river.

Find a deep hole with some shoals below it and put most of the guys there. Throw in a little dynamite in the big hole and the guys on the shoals would have sacks of fish. Not one of the fish were wasted. They did that to feed their families.

He would tell this tale and just laugh.

[teakwood]

A EX60 is way too small to get any real work done.  It's a fine machine for digging a trench to put in a water line or something like that but it's not heavy enough for stumping.

We run an EX200 and it's almost too small, it's about 45,000lbs.  It's not horrible, but have run into many stumps that too quite a bit of fussing to get removed.

I agree with Nate. A 20ton excavator is as small as i would get, maybe a 16ton. But under that they are just toys. I ran a 30ton Volvo excavator for some years now.  Here some info about buying a excavator: I would not look at machines over 6000hours (around 8000-12000h some expansive repairs can come up). Check Swing bearing (very expansive), track and roller wear, pins and bushings (lots of excavator owners are pigs when it comes to pin and bushing wear, they never change a bushing and that afects the whole machine.

[LittleJohn]

It might be on the smaller side for your application, but i have seen beefier ones made for bigger Bobcats or skidsteers; http://www.bobcat.com/attachments/digger

It might work for your application, not sure of product rate or how many or how big your stumps are but it might be a fun attachment either way

[Holmes]

 I will admit bigger is better when it comes to stumps. General purpose mine is a lot better than a backhoe or bull dozer.  My wish list was an EX 60 but the 308 is better.  Like shinlinger said his 20 ton unit outgrew his 40 acres.

[wfcjr]

I will admit bigger is better when it comes to stumps. General purpose mine is a lot better than a backhoe or bull dozer.  My wish list was an EX 60 but the 308 is better.  Like shinlinger said his 20 ton unit outgrew his 40 acres.

I am trying to avoid the two sins of the extremes here & find, if possible, the right size.
On the top end, I don't want a machine that is so large that it tears up portions of the woods that I don't want torn up, and/or
is not very maneuverable.  Also, don't want a machine so large that it is not adaptable or appropriate for other tasks.

At the same time I would hate to spend $$$ on a machine that is maneuverable & adaptable, but not up to the task of stumping.

The JD 60D/G or the Hitachi EX60 come in at 53hp & about 13,500.  Going up to the next level, the JD 75 & JD 85 (Hitachi X75/X85) only add about 4hp, from 53 to 57, but go up to about 18,000# in weight.  Is this still too light?  Am I looking for something that does not exist, an excavator that is heavy enough & powerful enough to stump, but is also maneuverable and adaptable to other tasks around the property that do not require a large excavator?

[shinnlinger]

About 5 years ago I bought a 40,000 '84 690b with 7000 hours and tracks with less than 100 hours on them for 15k.   The thumb did not work but it didn't take a whole lot to figure it out. It was fairly tight and seemed to be reasonably cared for. I got to track around a bit and dig a hole at the sellers.   At the time I didn't know much but looking back I got lucky as it was a good machine.   If you don't know much, ask here what to look for or bring someone who knows with you.   Signs of trouble are fairly obvious IF you know what to look for.

As far as tooling up,   I bought a pneumatic grease gun to help with that and rigged up a 55 gallon drum I had kicking around with a hand crank pump to fuel it.  The handle promptly broke so I ground the shaft hex shape and ran it with a cordless drill.   Much easier than cans and cheaper than a transfer tank. 

I did tens of thousands of dollars worth of work while I had it.  Celler, driveway, septic, pond, de rocked fields, pulled logs, ripped stumps, demoed a house and barn, erected and relocated chicken sheds, split firewood, buried lines, etc while I had it.   Most of that stuff never would have been done at all if I didn't own the machine. 

I sold it to a neighbor for 12k and the condition I was able to use it the following summer for a month to clean up the little things I might have had sellers remorse over.  That worked very well for me.  He Has put in lots of wood roads on his property and it has been good for him too.   He has offered to loan it back again but I am afraid  I might break it. 

John Deere no longer has parts for these machines and the recent high scrap prices soaked up a lot of good spares.  That said, you can barely touch a used mini excavator for what I had in that 690 and even if the machine exploded, at 40,000 lbs it is still worth quite a bit in scrap assuming nothing else was salvageable.   I have seen used esco buckets going for 2 grand.   

[Holmes]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cafnNvEB5k&feature=player_detailpage              I found this interesting .Hope it is ok to post

[KyLogger]

My favorite hoe of all time for all around general use is a 490 Deere. My father in law had one (he owns an excavating business) and it was the first hoe I learned to run. Good size, but not too big. I have run Deeres, Cats, Kobelcos, and Link Belts. I have alot of time in the seat of a 308, they are a great machine, and could be used to stump with. What it boils down to is a smaller machine can do the job, albeit with a little more time and will be more versatile on a property. A bigger machine will make quick work of the stumping job and do it well. It's a trade off.

[beenthere]

Holmes
That tooth on that Skidsteer with the thumb was a great way to go about stumps.  Granted, all stumps don't have as easy a root system as those stumps but think that size and design would work for most of them.

[scsmith42]

WFCjr, I've done something similar to what you're doing; here is what I've learned.

I use a Cat D8H with a root rake and a single shank ripper for stump removal.  The machine weighs 95,000 lbs with the ripper and the rake/13' blade.  For an 18" hardwood, usually I have to make a pass down all four sides with the ripper and then catch the stump with the root rake to pull it out.  Even then it can be some work getting an 18" stump out.  Having the ripper on the back of a D6+ sized machine is almost mandatory when it comes to larger stump removal, IMO.

If you let the stumps age a year or two they come up much easier!  Green stumps are much more work.

I've used a Cat 320 to removed stumps, and it was ok but required a lot of digging. 

For only a few trees, my preferred method is to use my backhoe to dig around the tree and then push it over.  The weight of the tree is very helpful in removing the stump.  Because we have horses here on our farm, I don't EVER leave a stump behind - they are always removed so that I don't have to worry about future holes and broken horse legs.

Hope this helps.

Scott

[shinnlinger]

Another thing to consider is ease of use.   I have never run a dozer so I don't know but I have been told to do it competently and not leave a mess, you need to know what your doing.   

An excavator on the other hand has a quick learning curve.  You might not be as fast as a pro, but after a few hours of seat time you can get the machine to do what you want it to do.   Just don't start near the house and go dig a big hole to
Bury rocks or something. 

[Peter Drouin]

 

  

  

  

 


22 ton works for me. ;D A smaller JD would be too much work, Go rent a big one :D :D

[barbender]

I've dug a lot of stumps out with a JD410 rubber tire backhoe, which the hoe on is comparable to that of a 6 ton mini excavator. I've also done a fair amount of hardwood stump removal with JD490 and JD690 excavators. Obviously, the bigger the machine the faster the stump comes out. A 6 ton mini is a very versatile unit, and will dig stumps out. It just takes longer. If I had a limited amount of clearing I wanted to do, and had other projects around the house, I would tend towards the mini. If you just want to hog the stumps out in the shortest amount of time, go big. I don't think you will like what scsmith's D8 will do to your woods- it will definitely make clearings though ;D

[MikeON]

I've pulled down a few trees in the 18" diameter range with the 10K front winch of a deuce and a half.  Hook the cable about 20' up the tree and it pulls it down stump and all.  You don't have as much directional control as with proper sawcuts, so be careful.  And make sure the cable is longer than the tree height.

[longtime lurker]

 When I was a kid I remember watching a bloke push a big old gum tree out with a dozer. I suppose I was about 6 or 7 at the time - and had enough time around dozers by that age to know that the tree was BIG and the dozer was wayyyyyyyyyyy small, can't remember what but probably an old D4 6U or something around that size.

The whole dammed dozer was disappearing out of sight below ground level in the hole he'd dug. Then her took all that dirt plus a bit more and ramped it up till he was pushing that tree about 15' above ground level. When the tree went it went quite easily though I can always remember the way he came scooting down that ramp going for all he was worth to clear the front of the machine off the rootball. Had he not cleared it there was no doubt it would have flipped that little dozer straight onto its back. All this of course took time, it must have taken the best part of a day to get that one tree on the ground.

I never have forgotten watching that tiny little dozer roll that tree over: the lesson served me well when I was contracting.
You can do a lot of big things with little equipment. And you can do those things without breaking the gear. What you can't do is do big jobs with little machines in any sort of hurry without breaking the gear.

The question is how much do you value your time? People grubbed stumps out with a pick and shovel long before the internal combustion engine. A little machine might not be more then a toy by modern standards but its better then a pick and shovel. So long as you take your time.

[LittleJohn]

...and make sure the cable is longer than the tree height.

I learned that one the hard way, not to mention that it was winter time and the tree was full of snow   

[wfcjr]

Thanks for all the responses... went and looked at a few excavators.

Agree with the posters who said that the JD50G/Hitachi ZX50 would be too light.
Ditto for the Cat 305 & 305.5.  Have not yet looked at JD60G/ Hitachi ZX60.  But am guessing
that the may be on the light side at 13,500 pounds or so. 

On the upper end, looked at the Cat 312.  This machine just looked too big to use for other tasks around the
property.  I know, I know, the loggers here and the experienced folks who like weight and productivity believe
that 30,000#, or 15 tons is the opening bid.  No doubt that excavators 15 tons and up would be the most productive in pulling stumps, but they would be too big for some of the other jobs on the property. 

So, will likely narrow it down to the JD 75/85 class (Hitachi ZX75/ZX85), or the Cat 308.
On the lower & upper end, will still try to find a JD60 and Cat 311 to take look at.

Would be interested in anyone's experience using these particular excavators, or any similar in this size range
of about 9-10 tons.

Thanks...

[Peter Drouin]

...and make sure the cable is longer than the tree height.

I learned that one the hard way, not to mention that it was winter time and the tree was full of snow   

Use a snatch block, that way your not under the tree.

[67x]

  Might I put my own twist on the subject..  I do this type of work for a living and when I'm not getting paid to do it I do it for 'fun' on my own property.  Back ground is such, 50 class up to 350 is used daily 'by us' for everything including yesterdays fire in Augusta.  All of them will dig a large stump.

  Excavators are cool no doubt and I disagree that it's easier to master than a dozer.  Excavators are fuel thirsty proportionate to size and regardless of size can get REALLY expensive to maintain.  I'd recommend against it unless you just have to have one because well, they are cool.

  I own a Kabota L4400 fel and 9' backhoe.  There isn't a stump on my property I cant remove and I have some monster trees.  This I can prove with my own personal stump dump.  What takes my 3 hours tractor time and my 4 wheel drive to pop out of the hole can be done in under a minute with the H350 from work.  My tractor consumes a bit over a gallon per hour working and the 350 will rock over a 100 gallons on a productive day.

  Getting a stump out is one thing, finding a home for it and its friends is another.  Got to move it and sure it can be buried but that's illegal in this state and lots more work.  On the clock we truck them home then farm out grinding when there is enough.  The finish product is used for erosion control and such.

  Leaving lots left unsaid Ill summate my opinion.  The most versatile home owner diesel tool is a loader backhoe.  You can dig, grade, lift/move, push, pull, plow snow, etc..  What may seem like a forgotten player in the dirt world came to existence for a reason.  It is the Swiss army knife of doables especially with the modern attachments and quick connects available.  I've used a case 580 whatever it is 4x with extendahoe and yard plus front bucket and rear jaw many hours in the last ten years.  Is it smooth, no.  Do I like binding it to the trailer, no.  Does it have the wow look at me factor, no.  Does it get the job done, you better believe it.  Bang for the buck It's where I opted to put my money.  If you go with a smaller 'tractor style' like I did then your door is now open to compliment your stable of excess with oh say a rotary mower, landscape rake, forks, etc..

  First post yes but have been poaching info off this site for years, thanks.  No welcomes please and I drink my whisky uncut at room temp.  Let it snow.

[beenthere]

67x
That was a very well written "straight whiskey" summary of equipment and how to get things done.
Glad you piped up for a "shot" at this discussion.  ;D

My thought all along has been to hire someone who is in the business, getRdun, and in the end it will likely be much cheaper and the OP can get on with life.

But still, an opportunity or excuse to get equipment to own and operate if toys are on the "want" list.

[mesquite buckeye]

Then enough of the poaching stuff already. Seems like you have a practical head. Time to pitch in on the info side. :P

And welcome anyway. ;D 8) 8) 8) :snowfight1:

[wfcjr]

67x
That was a very well written "straight whiskey" summary of equipment and how to get things done.
Glad you piped up for a "shot" at this discussion.  ;D

My thought all along has been to hire someone who is in the business, getRdun, and in the end it will likely be much cheaper and the OP can get on with life.

But still, an opportunity or excuse to get equipment to own and operate if toys are on the "want" list.

Absolutely an option and one that is still on the table.  In terms of maintaining our place & managing the woodlots, we use a mix of doing it ourselves and contracting out, depending upon the task, equipment, etc.   But given some of the other work we have to do, as well as some bad experiences in the past, buying and doing it ourselves is an option we have to consider.  In terms of getting on with life... one of the things that I enjoy in life is working in the our woods & maintaining the place.  Also, in the past several years I have learned a lot from working on the place, as well as reading posts in this and other forums.  So, no matter whether we decide to buy or hire, this is part of our life.   Also, my guess is that this forum & others are fairly well divided between professionals who do this sort of work for a living, and others, like me, who do it either because it is more economical for us, or we enjoy it.  At any rate if all of us "hired someone who is in the business" for every job we needed done, this & other forums would be a lot emptier and lots of folks who enjoy working outside, would have less full lives.  So, you are absolutely right that there are times when it is better to hire out for a lot of a reasons.  There are other times when for reasons of either economy or satisfaction, it is OK to DIY.

[BEEMERS]

Id like to weigh in on this. I do this for a living and I have all these options available.
I have a 220 Komatsu 57,000# and rarely use it for stumping jobs unless they are huge,its just too much for me to justify moving it.
I have a 150 komatsu 40,000# and almost always use it for stumping.mechanical thumb which I wish was hydraulic. Still takes  a semi-lowboy to move.prefer to tip trees over as opposed to pulling stumps.
Big dozer 1550 case..have used a couple times to stump on jobs that needed big areas cleared but small soft wood stumps.
Small dozer..small jobs small stumps...backhoe..same thing...mini excavator...never.

You have to accept the compromises in this
Big excavator...best for stumping but expensive to move it.expensive to own and if something breaks??
16-20 ton excavator..still need a semi/lowboy...still expensive great tool for clearing/stumping
120 size excavator...can move behind dumptruck on 20 ton tag trailer.still good with smaller stumps,practical to own..any smaller would involve a lot of time digging out every stumps and you might as well go to a backhoe which is much more versatile.
Big Dozer....you better have deep pockets..and something smaller to clean up...small dozer....are you in clay ground at all? that would make you wish you never tried it.same with very rocky ground.
I agree with the other guy that posted about a backhoe..just realize your not pulling them out,your digging them out,move them away,clean up the holes..and all the other thing you can do with it around your place? cheaper to own,drive it down the road.
should be a lot out there for sale, I know the compact track loader/mini excavator combo is hurting the backhoe market pretty bad and they are going for fair prices.
resale...every farmer/landowner/contractor/you name it would like one..easy guaranteed money back on resale..a thousand people are buyers for a backhoe for every one buyer for a big excavator or dozer.
If its one machine..I say a backhoe and for the prices for a nice excavator of good size I believe you could get a good used backhoe and small dozer and if you could use them both in the applications more practical for each machine...that I believe would be the least of all compromises..

[wfcjr]

Id like to weigh in on this. I do this for a living and I have all these options available....

Small dozer..small jobs small stumps...backhoe..same thing...mini excavator...never.

You have to accept the compromises in this
Big excavator...best for stumping but expensive to move it.expensive to own and if something breaks??
16-20 ton excavator..still need a semi/lowboy...still expensive great tool for clearing/stumping
120 size excavator...can move behind dumptruck on 20 ton tag trailer.still good with smaller stumps,practical to own..any smaller would involve a lot of time digging out every stumps and you might as well go to a backhoe which is much more versatile.

I agree with the other guy that posted about a backhoe..just realize your not pulling them out,your digging them out,move them away,clean up the holes..and all the other thing you can do with it around your place? cheaper to own,drive it down the road.
should be a lot out there for sale, I know the compact track loader/mini excavator combo is hurting the backhoe market pretty bad and they are going for fair prices.
resale...every farmer/landowner/contractor/you name it would like one..easy guaranteed money back on resale..a thousand people are buyers for a backhoe for every one buyer for a big excavator or dozer.
If its one machine..I say a backhoe and for the prices for a nice excavator of good size I believe you could get a good used backhoe and small dozer and if you could use them both in the applications more practical for each machine...that I believe would be the least of all compromises..

Thanks for the response.... lots to consider.

I have a JD5095M with a bucket, also a grapple.  Was planning on using that to move the stumps. 
Plenty of room to either pile the stumps or burn them. 

For the rest of my questions, I am not challenging folks, I am just asking questions to try to understand.  Please
look at them as questions, not challenges.

With regard to the backhoe.... I am a bit confused by some of the advice on the forum.  Some folks say that
a 30,000# excavator is opening bid... Yet the other poster who weighed in on the Kubota L4400, with FEL & backhoe... If I am not mistaken that tractor weighs a fraction of what the excavator weighs, or even what my JD tractor weighs. Ditto on the power. 

When you look at a JD 410, that loader backhoe is in the 20,000# range.  Just a tad heavier than a Cat 308.  A bunch lighter than a Cat 311.  So I am a bit puzzled at the recommendation on a backhoe, but against
smaller excavator.  (not challenging, just trying to understand_

I appreciate the counsel on the small dozer/backhoe combination.  It may be spot on.  But I would rather add one piece of equipment to the fleet rather than two... maintenance, storage, etc.  But still something to consider.