Clearing Stumps.... best equipment??

[BEEMERS]

an excavator in the 120 and up size whips a backhoe for stumping..hands down not even a challenge.But weigh out what else you can do with it.It doesn't sound like you have really big stumps..if its a big job, which big means different things to different people..definitely excavator work.
BUT..when the stumpings done..what else will you do with it?
What else would you do with a backhoe?
67x said its the swiss army knife of equipment.If you want one piece to do it all...and many other things for many years I recommend it...and this is coming from a guy that HATES stumping wih a backhoe.

[Reddog]

You asked about the cat 308 class. All I can say is run one and compare it to others in the same class.
I have always thought the Cat hyd were weak and slow on the 308/312 when compare to the competition.

[Sixacresand]

A few weeks ago I got logs from a lot clearing.  The trees were 12 to 30 inch diameter.  He cleared and removed all the stumps from a half acre lot with rubber tired backhoe in less than two days.  The backhoe had a clam shell grapple bucket which he used to load tree tops and brush..  Heavy equipment is nice to have, but expensive to maintain and repair.  I personally would rather hire a contractor, than to own a big piece of equipment.     

[wfcjr]

BUT..when the stumpings done..what else will you do with it?
What else would you do with a backhoe?

We always seem to have something around here that requires dirt work.   Have several old logging trails on the property that would benefit from culverts over small & intermittent streams.  Have three ponds that require maintenance.  One needs "fixing", another one could use an expansion.  Have several food plots in the woods that
I have to use perimeter roads to access.  With a few well-placed culverts I could shut down some "highways" that folks use to poach & access them internally.  Have at least two dry wells to put in for drainage purposes. 

Am hiring someone a few times a year to remove isolated trees from our fields when they die or blow down...

Place is big enough and we have enough going on to keep busy.  It would not collect dust.  If we ran out of projects, can always sell.  We try to maintain our equipment very well.

[Holmes]

 wfcjr   I think we are in the same boat and want to do the same type of projects. I would like a bigger excavator but I have what I have.  It is just plain handy. I was going to buy a back hoe for my property  but when I rented an excavator and found the 360 turning capabilities saved so much moving around compared to a back hoe.  10 years later I still hop on the excavator, rebuild stone walls, move dirt, push over trees, remove stumps, build bridges, hoist things up and down, rebuild box culverts, load the dump truck without tapping the side of the truck  ;). It has been great for digging footing holes and setting poles.  I may not use it for a few months then its back in use weekly. I have thought of selling it but still have to much work for it to do. 8)

[barbender]

"With regard to the backhoe.... I am a bit confused by some of the advice on the forum.  Some folks say that
a 30,000# excavator is opening bid... Yet the other poster who weighed in on the Kubota L4400, with FEL & backhoe... If I am not mistaken that tractor weighs a fraction of what the excavator weighs, or even what my JD tractor weighs. Ditto on the power. 

When you look at a JD 410, that loader backhoe is in the 20,000# range.  Just a tad heavier than a Cat 308.  A bunch lighter than a Cat 311.  So I am a bit puzzled at the recommendation on a backhoe, but against
smaller excavator.  (not challenging, just trying to understand_"
   

     Wfcjr, that's what was trying to get to in my post- a 5 ton mini-x I ran had the same size hoe as my grandad's 10 ton 410b backhoe. As someone else pointed out, with a smaller machine you are digging the stumps out, not pulling them. It takes a 30 ton class machine to just pluck stumps, I don't think you want something that size driving around your forest.

      Having used all of this equipment, if it were me, I would want an 8 ton mini-x and a good sized skid steer to go with it. (If I could have both ;)) An 8 ton, or even 6 ton will out dig any rubber tire hoe. If I could have only one, a rubber tire hoe is very versatile.

[BEEMERS]

Well said Barbender "If you could have only one". That's my point.
Also how much are you willing to spend? The backhoe may be the most practical from an expense standpoint.If price is of no concern get the biggest mini excavator you can get with rubber tracks and a 100 horse rubber track loader.
Also when we are all comparing equipment keep in mind we cant compare an old worn out backhoe against a new mini.
Also we cant be comparing a new 100 plus horsepower backhoe against a mini you could drive in the back of a pickup truck
When Im saying backhoe,mines a newer 580 Super M wide track at 98 horsepower its a heck of a machine.I guess that's whats in my mind when I say a backhoe..I can imagine others experiences with backhoes could be better...but many may have had experience with something 40 years old and power about 40% of what Im talking about.If that's what your picturing I can see why its not a practical picture.
And guys who have experience with mini evcavators may have been on  a new one...and believe me they are very quick and very powerful and so  easy to operate.
I have a buddy who sold his backhoe and got a mini and he will never go back,he loves it....BUT...he also has a rubber track loader paired with it and the promise that he can borrow my backhoe when ever he needs it...that being said...he borrows it a few times a year..that should tell you something.

[wfcjr]

      Having used all of this equipment, if it were me, I would want an 8 ton mini-x and a good sized skid steer to go with it. (If I could have both ;)) An 8 ton, or even 6 ton will out dig any rubber tire hoe. If I could have only one, a rubber tire hoe is very versatile.

Having looked at a range of equipment and attempting to digest the info on the forum, am leaning toward the 8 ton - 10 ton range.  I think that it will be acceptable productivity and not oversized.  But may take the advice given to rent both, but 8 tons on the bottom end, not 5 or 6.

Current workhorse is a JD5095M tractor.  Attachments include an FEL & bucket, so if I were to get a backhoe would have some duplication.   

Why the skid steer??

[LeeB]

Renting is not a bad option at all. You can try more than one machine and decide if you really want to buy after all.

[wfcjr]

Renting is not a bad option at all. You can try more than one machine and decide if you really want to buy after all.

Agreed, as another poster suggested, may rent one in the 8 ton - 10 ton range, and another in the 30,000# range & compare
size & suitability.

[Banjo picker]

Why not consider a stump grinder, you could get a pretty good used stump grinder for a lot less than most if not all of the equipment that has been mentioned.  I have an 850 C Case dozer and a 580 k Case backhoe....and a bunch of stumps that could stand to be removed that are just rotting in the pasture.  Makes too much of a mess to dig them out...I just bushhog around them,  if I wanted them out with out all the mess a stump grinder would be the way to go.  But it will only grind stumps, and they can be expensive to keep up.  Banjo

[wfcjr]

Why not consider a stump grinder, you could get a pretty good used stump grinder for a lot less than most if not all of the equipment that has been mentioned. 

You are correct on cost & have considered.  But in some of these spots, the ones we will clear, I will be putting in food plots.  I generally plow, then have to remove rocks, disk, add lime etc.  So preference is to remove stump, backfill & rough grade.

With grinding, it does not remove the stump low enough to avoid catching the plow.  Also, if I grind stumps in the woods, when the remainder rots will leave a sinkhole or soft spot.  I know it will take some time, but I don't want to be in the woods 10 years from now & flip my tractor because a wheel fell into an old stump hole.

[Missouriwildman]

I have about 8 acres of cedar stumps 8" to 15" in diameter that are all about 16" tall. The stumps are pretty close together and there's s a few hundred of them. There's also some small maple trees and brush in the fields. I was going to rent a cat 953 highlift, roll the teeth over a Little,raise the bucket up a little and blow through them.. I never thought of trying to finesse them out with a mini ex..

[bill m]

 

With grinding, it does not remove the stump low enough to avoid catching the plow.  Also, if I grind stumps in the woods, when the remainder rots will leave a sinkhole or soft spot.  I know it will take some time, but I don't want to be in the woods 10 years from now & flip my tractor because a wheel fell into an old stump hole.
[/quote]
This is not true. It all depends on the type of machine and operator. I have a lot of experience in this area and have ground thousands of stumps over the years. My machine would grind 24 inches below grade which is plenty deep enough to get 99% of the stump out. What little that is left will not leave any type of sink hole that could be a problem.

[wfcjr]

 

With grinding, it does not remove the stump low enough to avoid catching the plow.  Also, if I grind stumps in the woods, when the remainder rots will leave a sinkhole or soft spot.  I know it will take some time, but I don't want to be in the woods 10 years from now & flip my tractor because a wheel fell into an old stump hole.

This is not true. It all depends on the type of machine and operator. I have a lot of experience in this area and have ground thousands of stumps over the years. My machine would grind 24 inches below grade which is plenty deep enough to get 99% of the stump out. What little that is left will not leave any type of sink hole that could be a problem.
[/quote]

OK, always happy to learn.  What is the grind vs. dig/pull time?  I am guessing it is a pretty big stump grinder to get 24" below grade.  Is is a stand-alone or a 3pt hitch/PTO model?  How big of a stump can it handle?  Is it practical to use in grinding an acre or two of stumps left by logging in the woods?

I am all ears... thanks,

[Banjo picker]

All those questions are depending on the size of the equipment involved.  A large (stand alone) grinder will get the stump out quicker than a small excavator or a back hoe.  & vice versa..  The grinder I have run is an attachment that goes on a skid steer.  (bobcat).  It will go pretty deep, just how much time do you want to spend.  All we want to do is mow over it. Banjo

[Piston]

I'll weigh in just because the stump grinder idea came up.

With a PTO powered stumpgrinder, on your 5095M, you would be amazed at how fast you can grind an "average" sized stump.  I have 39 hp at my PTO, and I can grind a large stump faster than I can dig it out with my JD 410 backhoe, and leave a lot less of a mess doing it. 

My stumpgrinder (by spec) can grind 12" below the ground, but that is assuming the grinder is level on the 3 point hitch, so if you have a hydraulic top link, or just extend your top link, you can get lower than that, not 24", but still lower.  However, if you truly need to get over a foot below the ground on every single stump, this may not be a good option. 

With the 85 hp that you have available at the PTO, you would absolutely demolish stumps.  You can pick up a brand new Shaver SC50 Stumpgrinder which is the model I have, for 7k brand new.  You can't even touch a large piece of machinery for that, nor a large stumpgrinder with dedicated engine (if comparing new price to new price). 

However, a stumpgrinder is only good at one thing, then it sits.  The beauty of the PTO grinder, is it can sit for 2 years, you hook it up, burn the rust off the slip clutch, and it's ready to roll and grind through another hundred stumps. 

It seems you are pretty well set on buying the excavator, and that's a great option.  Not to mention, a whole lot more fun than a stumpgrinder.  If money were no object, I would have one as well, but I'd still have my stumpgrinder.

The only problem I see, and the reason I wouldn't 100% recommend the stump grinder, is that you need to grind the stumps fairly far down.  You can certainly do this, but it becomes sort of tedious when you need to grind many stumps, very deep. 

I completely agree that you have no use for a backhoe, and I wouldn't even consider one in your situation. 



By the way, not sure how far you are from me, but if your interested, you are more than welcome to try out my stumpgrinder on your tractor.  I think you'd be impressed.....
What do you have to lose?

[shinnlinger]

Don't know if a link to Facebook works, but this thing was in my feed this am.  https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=857454940941867&id=100000321075903
If the link doesn't work, It is a massive European PTO post hole digger with wings that drills down into the top of the stump, basically eradicating it.  While it does go down below 2ft rather easily, it is on a 100+ hp tractor and I'm sure really expensive if you could even get one. 

A low cost route would be to drill the stump with an auger bit and keep the holes topped up with diesel for a few weeks and then place a metal barrel or trash can with no bottom over the stump, fill with kindling and light a fire.   

I appreciate neither of these options really pertain to the OP but just throwing them out there. 

[wfcjr]

Piston & Shinnlinger,

Your comments are well taken.  I have seen some of those auger/shavers.  Most recently I think that I saw one advertised in Northern Woodlands.  Will look into it. 

Ditto on the PTO stump grinder.  I can see how they would work very well in clearing a few stumps out of an otherwise open field.  Does anyone have any experience using them for stump work in an acre or two of woods/forests that we want to turn into fields?   

Piston, your offer to check out your grinder is very generous.  I live in NH, but work in Western Mass sometimes out in the Lennox/Pittsfield area.  I am guessing 2 hours or so.

Am not wedded to an excavator.  Just trying to figure out the combination of cost effectiveness, time effectiveness and future utility of whatever route we go... including hiring it out.

[Piston]

Ditto on the PTO stump grinder.  I can see how they would work very well in clearing a few stumps out of an otherwise open field.  Does anyone have any experience using them for stump work in an acre or two of woods/forests that we want to turn into fields?   

As a matter of fact, the PTO stumpgrinder doesn't really excel at a few stumps here and there, in open land.  A field, sure, but anything that is sensitive to the heavy weight of a tractor, and the aggressive tread of tractor tires, is better off left to a dedicated stumpgrinder with low weight/impact to the soil.  It also takes longer to get the tractor, hook up the grinder, disconnect the grinder, put the tractor away, than it does to grind a couple stumps. 

Where the PTO stumpgrinder excels, is in exactly what your talking about.  It is excellent for grinding stumps quickly, when you have many of them, in a woods environment.  A small stump (say less than 14" or so at the ground) is almost a non event, it will take about 3-10 minutes to grind.  Then simply lift the 3 point hitch, move over/back up to the next stump, drop it, and grind away again.  I don't even disengage the PTO when moving short distances (I do throttle down however.)

A larger stump, will take considerably longer.  I ground this white oak stump that had been dead for 2-3 years, and it took me close to 45 mins (I don't remember exactly) to grind it down, and I only went about 4-6" below the surface.  Keep in mind, that's with 39 pto hp.   ;)
The saw is my MS361 with 25" bar.  I trimmed the stump down as much as possible before grinding it.


  

  

  

  



You can see what I mean in this pic, regarding how tedious it would be to consistently grind 12" or more below the surface.  The tip of the grinding wheel will go that deep, and then some, but of course since it's a circle, you'll have to make sure to hit every spot of the stump with the deepest part of the wheel, which would require a LOT of small movements with the tractor.  (does that make any sense? :)


The time it will take to grind down an acre or two of stumps, is unfortunately, impossible to answer (you knew that was coming right  :D)  If you have large trees, with huge stumps, and a lot of them, then it will take a LONG time.  But if you have a mix of small, medium, and large (sort of relative terms  :) stumps, then you'll be very surprised how much work you can do. 

The beauty of the grinder, is you grind the stump, feather out the dirt/chips left behind with the bucket or grapple (I almost always have my grapple on so I "backblade" with the heal of the grapple) and your pretty much done, not much cleanup (actually, no cleanup). 

I don't want to go on and on about how great a stumpgrinder is (although I would certainly love to  ;D) because just because it works for me, doesn't mean it will be best for you.  If you really need to get that deep on every stump, I do think your better off with an excavator, and completely rip them out of the ground, then bring in heavy equipment to smooth everything out, and clean up your mess with your tractor/disc/grapple. 

Again, the grinder "can" get deep enough, but once the stumps flare out, and roots go every which way, you find yourself chasing the roots all over the place, and moving the tractor around every which way to get them.  It's exponential how much more you need to grind for every couple of inches you go down, depending on the species. 

If you can deal with only a foot below the surface (which if your regrading the area, you may not be able to) then it's a good idea to look into the grinder.  I like that your keeping an open mind about your options and not dead set on something before you even have any info on it, that is respectable. 

Since you really need to remove the stumps, and your not concerned with making a mess and leveling the area, then I think your on the right track with the excavator.  I just wanted to mention the stumpgrinder in case it was something that may work for you. 

With any small trees, I simply knock them over and uproot them altogether and carry them away with the grapple.  Medium trees, I'll almost always cut and grind, but if I don't mind making a mess, I'll knock the tree over.  For large stumps, I always grind.  Like I mentioned, I can grind down a large stump quicker than I can dig it out with the 410.  However, if I didn't mind making a mess, and I happened to have a 50 thousand pound excavator sitting next to me, I may just find myself digging out a stump.   ;D  (Then again, if I had 85 hp at my PTO, I doubt it)

Piston, your offer to check out your grinder is very generous.  I live in NH, but work in Western Mass sometimes out in the Lennox/Pittsfield area.  I am guessing 2 hours or so.

Am not wedded to an excavator.  Just trying to figure out the combination of cost effectiveness, time effectiveness and future utility of whatever route we go... including hiring it out.

If you would really like to try out the stumpgrinder, the offer is on the table.  Shoot me a PM and we can figure out a time you could pick it up.  Likewise, if your ever in my area, I could always demonstrate it on my tractor just so you get the idea of how well/bad it works for your situation.  I have a never ending supply of stumps  ;D


The only way you'll know the "best" way to clear all the stumps, is by doing it multiple ways, finishing the job, looking back, and then deciding....
EXPERIENCE- It's what we have right after we needed it  ;)

[Piston]

Forgot to ask (maybe you've already told us) but do you have an "average" size stump figure?  What are the majority of them? 

Pictures would also help.

[s grinder]

Been sitting on the sideline for a while,i grind stumps,the two grinders i have are Carltons SP4012 and SP7015 33hp& 60 hp turbo diesels,self propelled wireless remote controls and Sandvic cutting wheels .The stump that Piston shows is about 20 mins work with my big grinder,i would first make a pass and grind it ground level then second pass could go down 15" if customer wanted it and ground would allow it[Rocks],thats the enemy of a stump grinder.As piston said chasing exposed flair roots can be time consuming.You have to consider you will hit rocks in N.H. just like i do in MA.,which will dull the teeth on the grinder.The grinder will grind the stumps,but your still going to have to deal with rocks. In my area usually can't compete in a quote to clear acreage against an exavator,for he can clear land,i can only grind stumps.A good used self propelled medium [60 HP] grinder will cost excess of 25K and you have teeth and teeth pockets to deal with.I would suggest rent a exavator with a skilled operator probably be a couple days work.You can buy a small machine to do small work at a later date.I would personally put the stumps thru a tub grinder rather than bury then,if you bury them you will get sink holes in about 10 years [ my personal experence.

[wfcjr]

Been sitting on the sideline for a while,i grind stumps,the two grinders i have are Carltons SP4012 and SP7015 33hp& 60 hp turbo diesels,self propelled wireless remote controls and Sandvic cutting wheels .I would personally put the stumps thru a tub grinder rather than bury then,if you bury them you will get sink holes in about 10 years [ my personal experence.

Thanks for the post & the info.  I am assuming that your Sandvik wheels have carbide cutting teeth or inserts.
The carbide is very hard and will cut/grind very well, but won't like the rocks very much.

Wat is a "tub grinder"  I have never heard of one.

Thanks,....

[beenthere]

tub grinder

[wfcjr]

Whoa.....

Just looked at the pricetag on those .....

Also, gotta grind a lot of stumps to need one of these guys.