End Loading a Reefer

[YellowHammer]

I've been considering buying a 40 foot hi cube reefer for a kiln chamber, but am getting the feeling that loading and unloading will be cumbersome.  Maybe/Maybe not - looking for experience and opinions.  Also, it seems considerable time would need to be spent on constructing a track and cart system.   I've received information and conversed with various kiln manufacturers, as well as information from posts here, and it seems the universal way to load these containers is with a track system, which seems easy in theory but mihgt be relatively slow and cumbersome in real life.  Specifically, for example, best I can figure, due to the container's height restrictions, in order to load 4 MBF, I would have to separate it into 4 different packs, 1 MBF each, load each onto a kiln cart, and roll each one inside.  Once there, I would have to put baffles at the ends and between each pack, which would be 5 baffles.  External to the container, I would need to have enough track, 40 plus feet, or the length of the container, to hold all the kiln carts for loading and unloading.  I would also have to level up enough ground, 80 plus feet, for both the container and the external track.
Am I missing something about this technique as it seems slow and labor intensive compared to a forklift capable full front loading kiln?  Are there easier alternatives for loading a reefer?  Or maybe this track method is fine, and I'm off base, never having used it before?  A reefer is much less expensive than a conventionally constructed kiln, but since I'd be loading and unloading wood frequently for many years, maybe I should spend the extra money and go with a front loading kiln where I just drive up, forklift a stack of lumber in and drive off?
Thanks for the help
YH

[thecfarm]

I have a saying,My convenience is worth something. Yes,it cost more,but from what you posted you will be using it alot. Looks like the other way is quicker,less labor. Time is money as you well know. We are not getting younger either.  ;D

[limbwood]

maybe you could cut doors in the side of it, might have to reinforce around hole. good luck

[GAB]

YH:
If it was me I'd want more than 80 feet as I would want to move the cart(s) in and out using the tractor.
Gerald

[FarmingSawyer]

I've thought about this too.... I think a winch and pulley system for the carts could be rigged up if they were too heavy. I think in practice the baffles could be made simple to put in place. As long as the carts can be loaded with a skid steer/tractor/forklift from the side, I think the high-cube is the way to go.

[Larry]

I bought my Nyle L-200 from a guy using a insulated shipping container for his kiln.  It was in daily use for maybe 8 years before I bought the Nyle.  Left the container on site as he had plans for it.

He was using conventional roller conveyors supported slightly off the ground to get his stacks in and out.  I think he had two sets side by side and than there was a long pallet thing with the stickered wood on top of that.  He had a cable arrangement to pull the pallet into the container and back out.  I think he did it all with a tractor.

He was buying all his lumber from the Amish in bunks and had a retail outlet for the dried wood.  Wood was delivered on a roll back and slid off next to the conveyor so he could put it on sticks.

Its been a while and that's according to my memory.

[scsmith42]

I've been using a container kiln for 12 years.  I've also helped several other folks set up their L200's using Nyle's kiln chamber plans.

My advice is to stick build per Nyle's plans instead of using a container or reefer box.

I advise this for two reasons.  One, it takes much more time to load the carts, roll them in and baffle them than it does to take a forklift and fork a stack directly into a kiln from the side.

Second, the airflow dynamics in the standard Nyle design kiln chamber are much better than in the long, narrow container. 

In short, a building will be faster and easier to load and baffle, and the air flow will be more consistent as compared with the container.

[YellowHammer]

I appreciate the advice, certainly good things for me to consider.  Is interesting (aggravating) that getting a kiln up and running is potentially such a long term effort.  I can buy the machine and get it delivered next week, but it takes many weeks, even months to get the actual structure ready.  I can build a stick built structure and it takes significant time and effort, or use a container which may be quicker to get into operation but has the drawback of being cumbersome to use so it equals out in the long run.  I've also priced kit kiln buildings from the various kiln manufacturers and they are amazingly expensive, even to the point where the salesmen say they are very costly.  I used to build houses so I'm not worried about the construction; I'm worried about the time it will take to get operational, I'd like, was hoping, to get up and running very fast.  I stick built my two other kilns and my have to do so again for the reasons scsmith42 talks about, but am searching for a solution here I could get a third kiln up an running with a minimum amount of time.
I've also looked at fire rated, high temperature Structural Insulated Panels, which maybe a good solution and would go up fast, as well as buying a conventional prefabbed building and getting it spray foamed (the door and seals are a problem for this approach).
Any ideas are welcome, I'm sure most every one who has their own kiln has had the same thoughts.
YH
     

[ellmoe]

My kiln chamber is similar to a container, I find it quite convenient to load on the cart and push it in. I have a cable to pull the cart out of the kiln with the loader. I wanted this style because of my concern that an employee might damage the walls loading a conventional structure.
Mark

[redprospector]

Ok, I'm trying to get my head wrapped around everything being said here.
I'm planning on building a kiln about 1/2 the capacity of the one YellowHammer is talking about. My plan is to build a track and cart system to load it. I plan to have a cable system to pull the carts in and out of the kiln.
Why would it be so much better to have a side load kiln with 21' of door to have to deal with, than to have an end load with a track and carts to deal with?
They can both be loaded with forks, and the lumber has to be stickered before it can go into the kiln, regardless of how it's loaded. Would it take more to baffle between the carts than to seal off 21' of opening in the side. I am evidently missing something somewhere. Help me figure this out.

[GAB]

One of the times when the Nyle Kiln personnel were in Essex, VT for the log show, I spoke to one of the reps about a kiln for drying 21' long material and he suggested that I add a third fan to get proper air flow.
According to this individual the two fan system was ok for up to 16' long material.
My suggestion to you fellows would be to call Nyle about the number of fans recommended for a kiln longer than 16'.
Gerald

[YellowHammer]

Ok, I'm trying to get my head wrapped around everything being said here.
Help me figure this out.

Here's some pictures of the two different styles of kiln.  Again, I'm weighing the pros and cons, too.  Both designs of kilns require stickering, but we do that right off the mill when we put the lumber on pallets, and put them into the air drying area, so I'm not counting that as kiln time. 
After that we use or forklift to move the packs into the kilns, and if I do my job right, I can usually cycle a load every 7 to 10 days through my current DH kiln, so that's 30 to 50 kiln changes per year, and if loading and loading one version or another takes just one extra hour (30 minutes more to unload, 30 minutes more to load, I don't know the real number, that may be excessive), it could possibly "waste" an entire 40 hour work week per year.  Of course, this time must be compared to the initial cost of construction as well as time to build and get operational. 
Below is a picture of a good example of a track loaded container kiln, 4 packs of 1 MBF each, loaded on tracks and ready to go into the kiln.  This would require baffling between each pack, and on each end.  The footprint is pretty large, and but I could load the carts with a forklift and use a winch system to roll them in and out.  The design of this kiln does not have optimized air flow for drying, although things can be done to help or correct this.


 
Below is a good example of a professionally manufactured, partially loaded front loaded boiler kiln, with approximately the same capacity of kiln load as the reefer.  There is no side baffling required because the packs are put in staggered, each with their end against the kiln wall to make a good seal, and easily accomplished with a side shifting forklift, which I have.  The pack loading would be very fast.  The door and door seals, an extremely critical component of a wide opening like this, are well designed and would work well.  The design of this style of kiln has optimized airflow or drying.


    
The third option is a full stick built which would basically look the same as the one pictured above, but would take quite a while to build and get operational, because unless I hire a crew to build it, every day I spent swinging a hammer and hanging insulation is time taken from my lumber business.

Cost to commission would be less for the container kiln (including extra fans, carts, track, etc), then the stick built would be more expensive, and then the prefab would be about 2X of the container.
Time to commission would be most likely rank the container kiln fastest, the prefab next, and the stick built, last.

If anybody has other options or ideas, I appreciate it.  My intent is to get a kiln up and running as soon as possible for the best value, so this topic is something I will execute, in one form or another, as soon as I can.
YH

[beenthere]

Must be tough to load that side kiln with that ramp. Would think there would be better options but apparently is a commercial op somewhere.

I recall Onewithwood built an end loading kiln with tracks a few years back.

An option I saw once was the kiln being on tracks and moved over the kiln stacks. There were several on the premises so don't think it was a one-shot deal.  Appeared to make stacking easy, and the tracks and rolling mechanical's less robust.  Sealing appeared to be reasonable, but don't recall how it was accomplished.

[FarmingSawyer]

I think the container wins in terms of cost and time frame vs benefits of other two in loading.

If extra time baffling is an issue and your trying to keep that 40 hour "week" productive for yourself, how about hiring a highschool kid for an hour or two one day a week to shuffle carts and baffle?

Your time has got to be worth 3x what you'd pay them. It would take some training time and some
Supervision but if you incentivize the work it could be valuable for every one.

[OneWithWood]

Yes, I built a stick built chamber with doors on each end and a track system.  I welded up a couple of 18' carts.  The lumber is stickered on the carts and I use my tractor to push/pull the carts in and out of the kiln.  If you set up the track system to extend out of the chamber and  have adequate room you can load stickered charges on and off the carts with a FEL or forklift.
There is a cost to building the tracks (2" angle iron) and the carts (3"box steel) plus the wheels for the carts. 
I think the build is documented in this thread https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,1400.msg16897.html#msg16897