homemade bandsaw mill, help

[MikeZ]

gww-I just typed for ten minutes, went to post and I had timed out.Try again. I'm about 1 1/2 hrs north of Kokomo. I bolted each rim to drive axle and used a cutoff tool from lathe. A sharpened pc of steel would work. Clamped a steady rest from framework. My tires had a center rib about 3/4" wide on them so I went to next open groove where teeth would be. Having tires spinning(not fast) ease tool into rubber slowly and carefully. Widened 1/4" and 1/4" deep. Make sure you can hold onto your tool securely. !?!?!? Lots of luck

[gww]

Mike
Thanks
gww

[fishpharmer]

Somewhere back in the forum I recall seeing a homebuilt mill with the same pneumatic tire problem and they used a big file held against the tire to shave off a bit.  I wouldn't get in the line of fire of anything you use to shave the tires.

[GF]

I made one of these to clamp to the blade to make sure the blade is level to the deck, I run trailer tires on mine and have not had a problem with set. The clamp portion is a piece of 14 gauge square tubing and I gut the one side off leaving the other three, then I welded a nut to the bottom with a bolt going through it to clamp to the blade.  I then cut the slots and slide in a 36" metal measuring stick.  I then measure both ends of the measuring stick down to the deck and adjust the rollers as needed, this way you can level the blade with the deck and know it correct.  Also if you are trying to push the blade thru the cut instead of pulling it, I think you are going to have problems, as the blade heats it will lose tension and cause the problem to get worse.




 

[gww]

Fish and gf
Thanks for the ideals. 
I cut that log today.  It was 18 inch butt and thirteen inch top 8.5 feet long.

I did no changes on the mill and I am sure I will pay with a short lived blade.  I do notice my guide bearings are freezing up every so often and I an shooting them with w-d and freeing them and cutting some more.  I know not Ideal either and more to adress.

I got 9 ten and a quarter inch boards. This would be close to sixty board foot wouldn't it?

I did find one curious thing.  I turned the boat winch two full turns down and 7 of the boards came out exactly 1/16th under one inch both sides.  The last two cuts came out:
1. was 1/16th under the other seven.
2.  was exactly 3/4 of an inch.
I don't get this.  They were good in every other aspect.

I have found that I can only cut down to 3.5 inches left on the deck.  I was trying to get to 1 inch but my doggs and the nuts on the blade guide with the bottom plate stop me.  I countered this buy taking the bark off of one side, flipping the log 180 degrees and taking the bark off the other side and then just leaving a bark side down for the bottom that I am cutting towards.  This still leaves a pretty thick piece of bark that in perfect conditions I would have got close to one more almost 8 or 9 inch board if I could cut low enough.

The boards seemed perfect in every way though it did seem to cut a little slower at the end.  It could be changes in the wood or my imagination or I could be dulling my blade quickly.  I want to make improvements but the mill was cutting the best I have ever had it do and I was scared to touch anything so dicided I would use it this way, sacerfice another blade and count what I got out of it and adjust when I have to change.

Gf
You mention feed rate.  I was going slow and not taxing the engine due to intimidation but some said you are just dulling the blade if you go to slow.  I was now speeding up a bit trying to keep the engine a bit under load.  I still go pretty slow but am mostly listening to the motor.  It still isn't real fast, but a bit better and fast enough for me.  I was trying to watch chip size but it all looks like powder to me.  I have some hitches in my feed due to welds being a bit to close to the wheel bolts on the carrige.  It causes some walking and I can't belive it doesn't affect the cut but it doesn't seem to.

I just lined up the guides by eye and it doesn't seem to matter what I do it seems to cut square with the track.  It will seem like one side lifts when I start the band and sometimes when cutting it seems to walk but the cuts came out perfect.

It always seemed to do mostly fair side to side.  I do notice after the cut that the drive wheel side of the band is a blade width lower then the cut.  I was lifting it and pulling it back over the cut so I could keep consistancy with my two turns of the boat winch so I could test consitancy of my using it to measure board thickness.  Sorta just a test to see if I could get by without a ruler to measure cuts.  I don't get the last two board being different.  They were perfect in every other way.  Does my harvest from the log seem about normal?

I guess I need some more logs to see how long the blade last so I can compare it to any fix I might do and the next blade after said fixes.

I was happy with the quality and will only be cutting for myself so may not need the perfection of a production mill.  I could never cut for anyone else cause I don't even understand the lingo.  4/4, 8/8 ect.  I understand 2x4, 2x6, 1x12 and 4x4 which is probly what I will try for in any project I do. 

Any more comments or suggestions?
Thanks very much for the help. 
gww

PS  I am getting some sap build up on the blade and soap and water does not seem to phase it.

[gww]

Most like photos.
Mill track strengthening


 
what I cut today


 
stait edge.
 

 
Left over from cutting deck due to only being able to cut lowest 3.5 inches high.
 

 
Do the saw marks from the drive wheel side have any meaning as far as adjustments go?
 

 

As you can see my text compared to picture is in wrong place.  I couldn't see the picture while adding the text and now you know how long my memory is.
Thanks
gww

[beenthere]

gww
You can always modify your post and fix whatever is wrong. Can move the text or move the pics.
Just use the Preview button and see what is where, and have it end up where you want it to end up. ;)

[gww]

beenthere
Believe it or not I did use preview before I started typing text, I just didn't use it after typing to see what I had did.

It ok, I figure most will get the picture and I had a hard enough time the first time. 

I needed to run then and now I am not ambitious enough to change it.
Thanks
gww

[gww]

Gf
It took me a bit to get how your picture and description worked but I think I have it.  You use two measuring sticks.  One in the clamp and one to measure the one in the clamp, in front of the clamp and behind the clamp to the deck.  If this sound correct then I have it.
Thanks
gww

[fishpharmer]

@gww  @kbeitz  , GF's illustration shows perfectly how the alignment procedure is setup.  The parallel stick across the top of the blade doesn't necessarily have to have any type of measuring graduations on it, but a metal ruler works great.  Actually, Woodmizer and Cook's sell a metal blade guide apparatus that looks like GF's.  I have one or two myself.  The long parallel piece just exaggerates the amount the blade is angled from parallel to the logbed.  I am sure there is an image of this somewhere on the forum.  In any event, if you take a level or any straight edge and lay it on the log bed similar to how a log would lay, then put the GF's blade alignment tool on the blade directly over the level.  Next measure the distance from each end of the blade alignment tool straight down to the level.  If they are the same front and back, then your guides are holding your blade parallel.  Do this near both blade guides to make sure both are aligned properly.  Clear as mud?

[Ljohnsaw]

gww,

RE: your final board thicknesses:

You are dropping the head down with the winch, correct?  If you look at your cable, I'm willing to bet that your spool was nearly full when you started. As you unwound it, the first 7 boards used the cable from the same level on the spool.  Then the 8th board was split - about ½ from that layer and ½ from the next layer down.  The next layer down is smaller in diameter so a little less cable to run out (and the head didn't drop as far).  The 9th board was cable from this new layer (full two revolutions) and a bit less cable payout, hence the thinner board.

[beenthere]

fishpharmer
Both gww and kbeitz are already in the discussions in this thread, so no need to use the @ function to call them in to your post. Causes the boss some grief that he doesn't need, and we don't want to lose the @ function as it is great to tap someone who is not participating in the thread. Just FYI.

ljohnsaw
That was a good catch and explanation of the apparent problem.

[Kbeitz]

fishpharmer
Both gww and kbeitz are already in the discussions in this thread, so no need to use the @ function to call them in to your post. Causes the boss some grief that he doesn't need, and we don't want to lose the @ function as it is great to tap someone who is not participating in the thread. Just FYI.

ljohnsaw
That was a good catch and explanation of the apparent problem.

It had me confused... Got an E-mail saying I got tagged. I had no idea what that meant . I got it covered now.

[fishpharmer]

Thanks beenthere. 

[GF]

I could not agree more with the comment below.

gww,

RE: your final board thicknesses:

You are dropping the head down with the winch, correct?  If you look at your cable, I'm willing to bet that your spool was nearly full when you started. As you unwound it, the first 7 boards used the cable from the same level on the spool.  Then the 8th board was split - about ½ from that layer and ½ from the next layer down.  The next layer down is smaller in diameter so a little less cable to run out (and the head didn't drop as far).  The 9th board was cable from this new layer (full two revolutions) and a bit less cable payout, hence the thinner board.

[GF]

Gf
It took me a bit to get how your picture and description worked but I think I have it.  You use two measuring sticks.  One in the clamp and one to measure the one in the clamp, in front of the clamp and behind the clamp to the deck.  If this sound correct then I have it.
Thanks
gww

I think you have it, the bolt and bracket are only to clamp the metal edge to the top of the blade firmly while doing the measurements, you could easily cut the slots with a bimetal sawzall and weld the top of the cut back shut.

[gww]

Ok guys, it looks like I got behind on my responces back to everyone.  Just know that I have read the descriptions you guys have provided and it has impoved my understanding of how things work.  Looks like I am going to have to install a cutting guide after all.  Thanks for taking the time to help a dummy, it is appretiated.

I am impressed with the comunication skills and the fact that you took the time to help.
Thanks
gww

[Ox]

gww - try not to be too hard on yourself.  You aren't a dummy.  You started your project without much research at all, right?  You made a mill that would somewhat saw lumber.  There aren't very many people in this world (proportionally)  that have built their own sawmill from scratch and can make useable lumber.  After some info and research you fixed a few things and now your mill is better, right?  You're doing just fine.  These guys are the best and they are great in communicating their thoughts simply and effectively.  I sometimes know what I want to say but can't get it down on paper without sounding like a mental midget with random thoughts all over the board.  Thankfully we have these eloquent men around.  And a big cheer for Jeff, the founder of this forum, for starting and keeping it going!  I can easily say it's the best if not one of the top three I've ever read with the politeness and knowledge available.  - Ox

[InterMechanico]

gww - try not to be too hard on yourself.  You aren't a dummy.  You started your project without much research at all, right?  You made a mill that would somewhat saw lumber.  There aren't very many people in this world (proportionally)  that have built their own sawmill from scratch and can make useable lumber.  After some info and research you fixed a few things and now your mill is better, right?  You're doing just fine.  These guys are the best and they are great in communicating their thoughts simply and effectively.  I sometimes know what I want to say but can't get it down on paper without sounding like a mental midget with random thoughts all over the board.  Thankfully we have these eloquent men around.  And a big cheer for Jeff, the founder of this forum, for starting and keeping it going!  I can easily say it's the best if not one of the top three I've ever read with the politeness and knowledge available.  - Ox

I'll second that statement. This forum is pretty great! A lot of good people sharing their knowledge and experience with inexperienced folks such as myself. Thanks Jeff (all of you, really)

Julian

[gww]

Ox
Ok I am not a dummy, I just make a lot of dumb moves.  I am with you on the disjointed thoughts and I can't spell to boot.  I think you have did pretty well in you comunications to me.  I do agree that some poeple just have a talent for using words to draw a picture.  That talent is really inhanced when they also know what they are talking about and are willing to share.  I may have muddled through some of my problims if I didn't get so frustrated that I just give up, However joining here has speeded up the problim solving and my chances of success.  I again thank everyone who is helping.  I am kind of a loner but this proves that it is easier when poeple help each other.  I hope at some time I am abit of help to someone.  Surely a subject will come up some day where that is the case.
Thanks
gww

[Ox]

I too am kind of a loner.  So I understand you.  I'm not good face to face with people.  When I can type I can be slow and re-read and re-think.  I have all the time in the world to not sound like a stammering fool.  And you WILL be helpful to someone down the line.  One of the best things to share is your experience in what works and what doesn't work for you, your machine and your situation.  Other peoples' results may vary but in providing your experiences the other people can put it all together and at least get an idea about what may be best for them.  Just recently in this post I remember me and another member had different experiences regarding blade tooth set and trailer/car tires.  He had the problem of the tires taking the set out of the teeth and I've never had or seen that problem.  Just goes to show, ya know?

[beenthere]

VERY well said there Ox   8)

[Joe Hillmann]

gww,

RE: your final board thicknesses:

You are dropping the head down with the winch, correct?  If you look at your cable, I'm willing to bet that your spool was nearly full when you started. As you unwound it, the first 7 boards used the cable from the same level on the spool.  Then the 8th board was split - about ½ from that layer and ½ from the next layer down.  The next layer down is smaller in diameter so a little less cable to run out (and the head didn't drop as far).  The 9th board was cable from this new layer (full two revolutions) and a bit less cable payout, hence the thinner board.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[gww]

Thats always the problim with advice.  It could be misunderstood what was being ask or the asker left out an important fact that may change the advice.  I am always a bit scared that I missed some important fact and therefore jump to the wrong conclusion.

Sometimes I agree with the advice but can't find the time or put enough importance on it due to only having so much time to do things.  It doesn't mean I don't listen or apretiate what was given,  It only means in the end I am the one that has to do it.  I like hearing it all and then I decide what I am capable of doing.  Never do I try to be disrespectful when getting advice.  I plan on mudling through and doing this and doing that till I get it good enough for my needs.  It may never end up as good as some guys would need. 

I know the above is a lot of gobbly gock but I want the advice even if I never get to implimenting it.

I have joined a couple of forums and it goes against my grain to do so and most times I am in a hard place and don't know where to turn.  In almost every case I have actually been helped.  It hurts my pride to need it but I am always thankful when it works out well.   

I have picked through the responces and have directions to try and will keep trying them one or two at a time till I get it good enough for my needs and or run out of time or die.

I also will help someone and say in advance if I cost someone hardship I will have been trying to help, so use your own common sence when getting advice from me.

gww

[gww]

Well my mill went to crap again today.  I started another log and it cut great while taking the bark off but I lost the guide bearing that had been freezing up.  The saw was cutting slower and then the bearing.  I freed it up and tried to push through another cut and the cut was looking worse.  The top of the cut board was black so I am guessing the blade was getting hot.  It didn't really feel hot but the bearing did.

I do think my guides are killing me but I also wonder about the trees I am cutting.  I cut a dead tree again and had to cut it at 8' 11" to get to solid wood.  Above that was spongy.  My blades seem to be going all at once when they go.  They cut and then they dont.

I spent another 30 bucks on bearings to mess with and I am going to try a new configureation and then I am going to call myself stupid for not just buying the cook roller bearings and being done with it.  I would have liked to have found some way of fixing with local stuff cause I am impatent and when something breaks I like to work on it right then and not have to wait 3 days on the mail.  I find the same thing with my zero turn mower belt cause it is so long.  I will go to 3 places and they will all say we can have that here tommorrow and I always say I think I am going to go some place else and check.  I have always been able to get one the same day with enough running.

I Looked as close as I could at the blade and it almost looked like the set was of on the side that was not running on the tires.  It also looked to me like maby there was a little rounding of the points of the blades.  It was dusk so I will check again tommorrow on what it really looks like.

I changed the soap and water flow and made it heavier. 
I had the blade guide bearing issue.
I had the debarking issue of a fairly dead tree.

I am not sure of the cause and affect of each of those things and would have liked to have only the effects of one issue to think about. 

This is turning out to be pretty hard.  I have other things to do but only want to work out the issues on the saw.  Also, but it is hard to tell,  I had one wave in my last bark cut and so I was trying to cut a quarter inch to straiten it and it felt as if the blade was diving but it came out on top of the log.  I then added another quarter inch cut and the blade seemed to be diving but it actually after the first bit cut pretty strait from then on.

I used bearings that were used for my blade guides.  I considered them practice to see if the would work and then I could get more if they did but failed later.  I used roller skate wheels in the very beginning.  I wonder if any of the tractor places sell bearings like cooks.  I don't want to be unfair as I know cook is maby a sponcer here but it would be nice to come up with something that is kept in stock localy for an instant gratification purchase.  Are most of my problims my guides?  If it is my guides can one pass with miss alined guide cause compleete blade failure.  My last blade failed compleetly but the new blade cut one log perfectly with no adjustment from a setting the other would not cut from. 

The tire could be affecting set and I will look closer again tommorrow but tonight it sure seemed like the set running on the wheel was better then the otherside.  I am going to put it by a new blade and compare.

Is cutting only dead trees so far hurting my assesment or a no factor.  The part I cut still had a redish pinkish hue to it.  It had a small bit of lose bark but not all over.

I believe the blade and the guide going at the same time points to the guide but I am not positive.

The mill seems like a peice of crap at this time and is bugging the heck out of me.  I did see the potential in nine boards I cut but have to stop the breakdowns and ruining of good boards.  I would have got 5 or so 2x12 boards if I could just keep it cutting.

Ok I almost feel better after my rant.
Thanks for reading.
gww

Thanks