Building my mill...

Kbeitz · January 30, 2016, 07:42:17 PM

Your best bet is to search E-bay for "engine clutch 1""
most sellers post up to what HP they cover.
Lots of different kinds of machinery takes Centrifugal Clutches.
I would also try to get one that take a double belt.
even if you don't use two belts you could put and alternator on later with the other belt.

Joe Hillmann · January 30, 2016, 08:08:00 PM

The best place I found for new electric clutches was from "discount starter & alternator" If you are looking for salvaged ones they are common on higher end riding lawn mowers to engage the blade.

gww · January 30, 2016, 08:32:44 PM

k and joe
I don't know if I need one, I don't mind low tech. I do know I don't want to spend real money on something that doesn't work. I will check e-bay and joe, thanks for the lawnmower tip. I will call my uncle as playing with old riding mowers is his game.
Thanks
gww

Kbeitz · January 30, 2016, 08:40:15 PM

For safety reasons I would not want a mill without a clutch.
After every cut i idle down before removing my boards.
I sure would not want the blade turning while i was anywhere around it.

gww · January 30, 2016, 09:12:11 PM

K
I actually kill my motor at the end of every cut. Restart to begin the next cut.
gww

Kbeitz · January 30, 2016, 09:42:56 PM

Wow... Thats a lot of starting and stopping.
When I make my first cuts I throttle down at the end and tell the carriage to return home.
While its returning I can carry the slab over to the swing saw and chop it into fire wood
before the carriage gets back. Then i flip the log and cut again.
Are you using electric start ?

gww · January 30, 2016, 10:45:06 PM

K

QuoteAre you using electric start ?

Nope, been pull starting, probly why the rope finaly broke. The new motor I ordered has electric start and in the reviews for the motor, it might be one of the weak spots. I am sure I will find out.

You have a pretty good set up that probly saves some time. I move the board then pull the carrage back then do any log minipulations and lower for the next cut and then start the engine and cut.

My mill is compleetly manual. When the motor is on the blade turns. Even when I had an idler pully that I would squeeze to start the blade turning, I always ended up killing the motor cause I am slow enough in my work habits that I would make a cut, then look the board over and maby measure the thickness, then sit and smoke a cigerret, take a drink of coffee, think about what I just did, then think about what I was going to do next, then get up and pull the rope and make another cut.

If I was faster it would be nice to leave the motor running but I got in such a habit of killing it and looking for problims in the beginning that I really didn't notice it much. After I got rid of the idle pully cause I put the jack shaft on to slow the blade down and never worried about the idle pully during that work, I ended up with direct drive and killing the engine was no longer by choice. It had to be done.

I don't even mind as long as I get good boards though better would be better. I guess I have to decide if it is $100 better or if I am ok now. If I wanted to go whole hog, I could spend $300 to $500 more and get a three to one reducer clutch and get rid of the jack shaft, have a single belt and the proper blade speed.

I didn't mind what I had and the only reason I am even thinking of any changes is cause my motor got bad enough I didn't want to screw with it. I can't build enough raised bed gardens to justify the money I am spending. Yet I am a bit jelouse of the better mills like yours.

When I run out of these junk logs I am cutting now it will be even harder to mill so going to far if I don't want to make it a job will only be for my pride but not really make sense for my needs.

I did go to ebay and it looks like for $98 I could get one that will barily fit my new motor if I decide to go that rout. I probly wont cause if the motor gets here and it is warm enough, I will probly try to mount it and will have to fabricate the mounting plate and if it works good enough, I will never get to it.

Sorry to take this much of you build thread and thanks for your help.
gww

Kbeitz · January 31, 2016, 03:18:13 AM

Hey I enjoyed the chat...
If you got to redo your mounting plate why make one the slides.
This would be your clutch and should work well.

roghair · January 31, 2016, 05:40:53 AM

I made one like that as a modification last year, works great; no slipping belts anymore. I also changed to double v-groove pulleys.

Ox · January 31, 2016, 08:22:46 AM

If you added a simple turnbuckle you could adjust it so it locked over center to keep it engaged even! Sliding engine plates are the ultimate in simplicity and strength. In fact, I had an old 2 wheel walk behind tractor that did this to engage the drive.

gww · January 31, 2016, 10:54:45 AM

On one hand it looks simple but on the other hand when I look at the pictures of you guys mills, I see that you are all much better fabricators then I am. I thought the guy that had the system where he just lowered the motor on one side and that is what tightened his belt was cool also. I started with a idle pully and used the tiller cable on the handle to tighten the belt and that worked and was pretty simple also but I got in a hurry cause I wanted to cut boards when I added the jack shaft plus the tiller idle pully set up was pretty light duty.

I am not sure what I will end up with now. I love to collect ideals of things I might be able to do. I usually on any project, go out with a general ideal of things I might do and then just start doing it. I will take the old motor off and see how far the plate is off compared to the new motors and then will look at all the stuff I have laying around and from memory of what dad has laying around and will start trying to cob it together. I really dislike the weakness of my jack shaft system and really liked the simplicity of some kind of direct drive.

What did you guys think of the running the belt on the actual tire that the band is on? Say a 6 inch pully on the motor to a 20.5 inch tire?

I will look around to day and see what I have that might work for a sliding motor mount. I am always scared of changes cause they some times create problims that I hadn't thought of. I know when I built my home made drive pully, it worked better when it was direct drive but when I added the jack shaft, it had to be perfectly aligned or I had terible belt issues. I also had to live with some belt slipping to get it to work as good as it was going to. I aint mad cause I have cut a lot of boards. I am scared to touch things though.

I really thank you guys and expecially you K for not being put off that I have stolen this much of your build thread. I came here cause it was the easiest way to get advice from someone I knew could help.

Thanks
gww

Ps Roghair, That looks like a really well built mill.

roghair · January 31, 2016, 12:12:03 PM

gww, thanks. You might indeed consider to pivot the whole motor or work with an idler pulley as you described.
I think you are in good hands with Kbeitz from what I read here !!

Kbeitz, are you building a new mill? I remember I read that somewhere in your posts ...?

Joe Hillmann · January 31, 2016, 12:42:49 PM

You could just put the engine on a hinge. Tip it so the belt loosens up and put a wedge under it. Remove the wedge and the engine tips and tightens up the belt.

Or just the opposite. Put the wedge in to tighten the belt and pull it out to loosen it. I have had several pieces of homemade equipment that use that method for a clutch

Kbeitz · January 31, 2016, 04:30:49 PM

Quote from: roghair on January 31, 2016, 12:12:03 PM
gww, thanks. You might indeed consider to pivot the whole motor or work with an idler pulley as you described.
I think you are in good hands with Kbeitz from what I read here !!

Kbeitz, are you building a new mill? I remember I read that somewhere in your posts ...?

I'm building a new vertital band saw thats big enough to be a mill.

Kbeitz · January 31, 2016, 04:31:38 PM

Quote from: gww on January 31, 2016, 10:54:45 AM
On one hand it looks simple but on the other hand when I look at the pictures of you guys mills, I see that you are all much better fabricators then I am. I thought the guy that had the system where he just lowered the motor on one side and that is what tightened his belt was cool also. I started with a idle pully and used the tiller cable on the handle to tighten the belt and that worked and was pretty simple also but I got in a hurry cause I wanted to cut boards when I added the jack shaft plus the tiller idle pully set up was pretty light duty.

I am not sure what I will end up with now. I love to collect ideals of things I might be able to do. I usually on any project, go out with a general ideal of things I might do and then just start doing it. I will take the old motor off and see how far the plate is off compared to the new motors and then will look at all the stuff I have laying around and from memory of what dad has laying around and will start trying to cob it together. I really dislike the weakness of my jack shaft system and really liked the simplicity of some kind of direct drive.

What did you guys think of the running the belt on the actual tire that the band is on? Say a 6 inch pully on the motor to a 20.5 inch tire?

I will look around to day and see what I have that might work for a sliding motor mount. I am always scared of changes cause they some times create problims that I hadn't thought of. I know when I built my home made drive pully, it worked better when it was direct drive but when I added the jack shaft, it had to be perfectly aligned or I had terible belt issues. I also had to live with some belt slipping to get it to work as good as it was going to. I aint mad cause I have cut a lot of boards. I am scared to touch things though.

I really thank you guys and expecially you K for not being put off that I have stolen this much of your build thread. I came here cause it was the easiest way to get advice from someone I knew could help.

Thanks
gww

Ps Roghair, That looks like a really well built mill.

Glad to help out...

Red Good · January 31, 2016, 07:59:19 PM

Very good thread , just read it end to end . Still collecting bits for my mill and getting closer to buying the last parts and soon to be building .Very professional looking mill K . I will have some questions sooner than later !

Rougespear · February 05, 2016, 10:43:34 AM

Hello Kbeitz: how are your PWM boards holding up? I was looking at getting one to control a 12vdc gearmotor...

Kbeitz · February 06, 2016, 04:59:42 PM

I'm real happy with them and the price was right.
I bought three extra for the future if I will ever need them.
I don't know how they can sell them so cheap.
The voltage range is so great that they could be used for many things.

Rougespear · February 08, 2016, 11:06:17 AM

Good to hear... I think I'll try one. Thanks!

I was thinking of using a single 2PDT switch to control fwd and reverse: NC contacts of relay would power the PWM controller for speed control in the forward direction; and energizing the relay would provide full voltage to the motor in the reverse direction for full speed reverse at all times. Two push buttons (PB) would control the circuit: 1 NO PB for turning on power to the PWM board for forward speed, and 1 NO PB to energize the relay for reverse. What do you think? I looked through this thread and you are using two DPDT relays for directional control.

I see on the board the 2-wire input and the 3-wire input both go to the POT. Do you think it's possible to interface a PB across the 2-wire input and still use the existing POT for speed control?

Kbeitz · February 08, 2016, 05:22:05 PM

I used two relays because I want to be able to control my speeds both ways.
One thing you need to watch for with what your wanting to do is with only one relay
you might blow the PWM controller by letting it go into reverse instantly.
The motor will still be spinning in the opposite direction putting feed back to the PWM controller.
The amp draw will be real high until the motor get stopped and running the other way.
I think you will find that you will need to control your speed both ways.
If you ever get your blade stuck in a log you would not want your carriage to run
wide open when trying to back out. I also put limit switches to stop the carriage at the ends of travel.
I you do this you need a spring loaded cushion stop at both ends.
I used a single 2PDT toggle switch to work my relays but I just bought a drum switch to replace that.
I dont think the toggle switch can take the work load I'm giving it and have it last very long.

Rougespear · February 12, 2016, 11:32:36 PM

Kbeitz, thanks for the info. May I ask you how you wired up the two DPDT relays and the PWM controller? Does the POT zero in the center and turning it to the left is one direction and turning to the right the opposite motor direction? I am ready to order the board, I am just unsure if I need two boards (one for fwd and a second for reverse). Thanks.

Kbeitz · February 13, 2016, 05:12:14 AM

I use one board for both foward and reverse and another board for my up and down.
Pot zeros all the way CCW and wide open CW.
This is the only drawing I made up and it's made with a fast return switch.
I ended up not doing that. I just turn the pot to go faster and I have a mark to put it back
to my sawing speed. I ran out of room in the first box so I now have two.

Ox · February 13, 2016, 09:10:30 AM

My Lord Almighty, that's somethin' fierce impressive for a homemade mill build. I'm still amazed. Makes me a little embarrassed about my simple all manual mill. But following my creed (K.I.S.S.) I'm also relieved with the simplicity. When I get tired of doing everything by hand I might get around to motorizing some basic functions like feed and raise/lower.

Thanks for being so willing to share, Kbeitz. Your knowledge is a gold mine for some of us.

Kbeitz · February 13, 2016, 09:54:07 AM

Quote from: Ox on February 13, 2016, 09:10:30 AM
My Lord Almighty, that's somethin' fierce impressive for a homemade mill build. I'm still amazed. Makes me a little embarrassed about my simple all manual mill. But following my creed (K.I.S.S.) I'm also relieved with the simplicity. When I get tired of doing everything by hand I might get around to motorizing some basic functions like feed and raise/lower.

Thanks for being so willing to share, Kbeitz. Your knowledge is a gold mine for some of us.

Glad to help... Anytime...

Kbeitz · February 13, 2016, 10:20:04 AM

I just made this simple drawing up for one toggle switch using two relays for forward and reverse.
This might be able to be done with one relay but the motor would slam into the other direction.
Using two relays gives the motor time to stop before going the other way.
Anyone is welcome to copy and use it.