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Author Topic: Plunge Cut  (Read 8111 times)

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Offline Kingmt

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Plunge Cut
« on: September 30, 2015, 07:10:00 AM »
I'm not  extremely experience when it comes to cutting with a chainsaw. But I'm not new either. I've been using full skit chains for most of my life. However I have a new MS660 that is the biggest saw I've ever used. The 36" bar on it is the longest bar I've ever used as well.

I just can't seem to be able to get a plunge cut started. Even if I try to start it with the side of the bar & rotate in. The saw just kicks back to hard for me to keep it in the cut. Any suggestions other then eat my Wheaties?
Sawmill=Harbor Freight Item#62366
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Offline Kingmt

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Plunge Cut
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2015, 07:19:58 AM »
Thanks to the Mod for fixing this for me.
Sawmill=Harbor Freight Item#62366
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Staff=1Wife & 5 Kids :)
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Offline ladylake

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Re: Plunge Cut
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2015, 07:45:50 AM »
  Might have to change from a skip  chain and keep the rakers a little higher.  Steve
Timberking B20 14000 hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Offline Jhenderson

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Re: Plunge Cut
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2015, 08:57:48 AM »
Sounds like the rakers might be a little low. The longer the bar the more leverage it has against you.

Offline HolmenTree

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Re: Plunge Cut
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2015, 09:04:26 AM »
Two identical threads on the go here :D
What species of timber are you bore cutting and what position are you boring felling or bucking?
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Offline Kingmt

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Re: Plunge Cut
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2015, 09:04:36 AM »
I was afraid that might be the answer. I did buy a chain with all the teeth just in case the full skip chain wasn't any good to rip with on that big of a bar. The full skip chain is brand new so I can't add any to the depth gauges. I didn't notice until I got home but this saw has a yellow bar & I've always bought green bars & used the yellow chains on them. Actually I know what the colors mean but is there really any difference in the bar itself?
Sawmill=Harbor Freight Item#62366
Chainsaws=MS180CBE(14"), MS290(18"), MS038(20"), MS660(20" & 36")
Staff=1Wife & 5 Kids :)
Please excuse my typing. I don't do well at catching auto correct.

Offline Kingmt

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Re: Plunge Cut
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2015, 09:17:25 AM »
Sorry
I just seen a double tap must have taken place. My phone browser doesn't work well with this site. I'll ask a Mod to merge them. The only tree I have tried a plunge cut on so far has been a oak. I tried several times & just couldn't get it started. Kickbacks with a chainsaw is about the closest thing I know to something that scares me so after about ten in a row I have up & didn't try any more. This saw was kicking so hard it was all I could do to hold it. I can good them in place & power on through until the saw will stay in the cut with my other saws. This saw has to much torque for me to do this tho.
Sawmill=Harbor Freight Item#62366
Chainsaws=MS180CBE(14"), MS290(18"), MS038(20"), MS660(20" & 36")
Staff=1Wife & 5 Kids :)
Please excuse my typing. I don't do well at catching auto correct.

Offline HolmenTree

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Re: Plunge Cut
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2015, 09:19:38 AM »
I didn't notice until I got home but this saw has a yellow bar & I've always bought green bars & used the yellow chains on them. Actually I know what the colors mean but is there really any difference in the bar itself?
You'll never find a 36" green bar. But if you can find one of these green Oregon small radius bar noses you can bore cut effortlessly. Put it on any Oregon PowerMatch bar length of your choice
Still lots of new ones around if you search, their called Oregon Power Match Double Guard available in 3/8" and .325 .
 

 
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Offline HolmenTree

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Re: Plunge Cut
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2015, 09:46:02 AM »
Bore cutting with a full skip chain is only recommended for softwood not hard oak.
Start your cut at WOT always.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Plunge Cut
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2015, 08:48:20 PM »
You have to kind of start your plunge using the bottom radii of the bar tip .

Be very careful because if catch the top of the bar it will come back on you .

BTW a plunge is not for a novice to be fooling with ,just sayin .

Offline 49er

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Re: Plunge Cut
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2015, 09:10:56 PM »
Someone suggested to me that when plunge cutting or boring and when the saw starts jumping around to rotate or twist the bar to get it to settle down. I was skeptical but it worked. Guys HolmenTree may do this without even thinking about it.
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Offline SawTroll

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Re: Plunge Cut
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2015, 10:42:55 PM »
I didn't notice until I got home but this saw has a yellow bar & I've always bought green bars & used the yellow chains on them. Actually I know what the colors mean but is there really any difference in the bar itself?
You'll never find a 36" green bar. But if you can find one of these green Oregon small radius bar noses you can bore cut effortlessly. Put it on any Oregon PowerMatch bar length of your choice
Still lots of new ones around if you search, their called Oregon Power Match Double Guard available in 3/8" and .325 .
 

 (Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

I find the double guards silly, and will never use them, but each to his own. A small tip on an otherwise wide bar isn't a combination that sits well with me.

Plunge cutting with 11t tips in 3/8" is just fine (full comp chain of course), but you do of course have to start the cut with the underside of the tip, and be prepared for some pushback when inside the wood.
You have to be awake when doing it, regardless of bar - and preferably sober. lol

A lot of knowledgable people have said that the 13t noses are the most effective for bore (plunge) cutting - but I haven't tried that.
Information collector.

Offline HolmenTree

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Re: Plunge Cut
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2015, 11:07:16 PM »
I didn't notice until I got home but this saw has a yellow bar & I've always bought green bars & used the yellow chains on them. Actually I know what the colors mean but is there really any difference in the bar itself?
You'll never find a 36" green bar. But if you can find one of these green Oregon small radius bar noses you can bore cut effortlessly. Put it on any Oregon PowerMatch bar length of your choice
Still lots of new ones around if you search, their called Oregon Power Match Double Guard available in 3/8" and .325 .
 

 (Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

I find the double guards silly, and will never use them, but each to his own. A small tip on an otherwise wide bar isn't a combination that sits well with me.
Nothing silly about them at all, When these noses were manufactured and sold there wasn't  any internet sites or SawTroll. I think your thinking of today's laminated Double Guards for the weekend cutters.
 
Very smooth cutting bar and did I say "safe"......with that 9 T nose on a regular contour bar.
I wouldn't  call kickback injuries in 6 logging camps going to zero silly when these bars were used.
We logged with these noses in pulp wood for decades starting back in the 1970s when they were the single contour banana nose and they proved their worth and reliability.
Now the Oregon laminated one piece Double Guard bars on the market today are what you call silly :D

Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Offline Pine Ridge

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Re: Plunge Cut
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2015, 11:07:36 PM »
I had some of the same problems when i first learned to bore cut, which hasn't been that long ago. I won't say my way is right, but it helped me while learning to bore cut. I get my left hand low on the handle, my right wrist and elbow locked and forming an L while my right elbow is against my right thigh, knees slightly bent. Start the cut with the bottom of the tip and slowly walk yourself to the right, while lightly pulling the saw to the left with your left hand. This is all done at wot. Hope this doesn't confuse you, but i'm not the best at explaining things. You already know the dangers of kickback, and if anyone reading this sees an error in my explanation please chime in, i'm not a good "explainer". I cut oak hardwood mostly with a 20" bar using oregon lpx, and a 28" bar with full skip for the bigger trees, and i bore cut most of the timber i fall. It's like anything else , the more you do it the easier it will be. Hang in there you will get the hang of it.
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Offline Kingmt

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Re: Plunge Cut
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2015, 11:25:32 PM »
Great replies that are very informative. Altho now I have another question. What are you talking about when it comes to 13t, 11t, & 9t bars? Is that teeth on the roller? I thought I knew a little about cutting wood & saws until I tried to learn more. Now it seems like the more I learn the less I know.
Sawmill=Harbor Freight Item#62366
Chainsaws=MS180CBE(14"), MS290(18"), MS038(20"), MS660(20" & 36")
Staff=1Wife & 5 Kids :)
Please excuse my typing. I don't do well at catching auto correct.

Offline beenthere

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Re: Plunge Cut
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2015, 11:32:01 PM »
PR
Your explanation works well for me, and would consider it just what I do. Rarely get any bounce back out of the initial start of the tip of the bar into a plunge cut.

WOT and sharp chain are important, IMO
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Offline Kingmt

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Re: Plunge Cut
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2015, 11:47:07 PM »
Yeah the explanation was good & useful to me. I didn't explain this in the first post because that cut is over but part of my problem was the hight I was cutting. I was limbing a tree. The limb is about 14-16" & was slightly over my head. The reason I was trying the plunge cut was I didn't want to try & hold the saw up there with the chain pushing back at me to do a under cut then finish from the top. Instead I wanted to plunge & come down then move back to the top. Instead I cut the limb closer to the main trunk & let the whole thing crash to the ground. I figured that cutting such a heavy log under that much pressure that something really bad was going to happen half way through the cut. It ended up only splitting a little & really wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be.
Sawmill=Harbor Freight Item#62366
Chainsaws=MS180CBE(14"), MS290(18"), MS038(20"), MS660(20" & 36")
Staff=1Wife & 5 Kids :)
Please excuse my typing. I don't do well at catching auto correct.

Offline HolmenTree

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Re: Plunge Cut
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2015, 07:18:49 AM »
Kingmt,  rule of thumb you should never have to cut above shoulder height for safety sakes.
 But it sounds like you have some very nice oversized oak, something I never see up here.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Offline HolmenTree

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Re: Plunge Cut
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2015, 07:37:17 AM »
Great replies that are very informative. Altho now I have another question. What are you talking about when it comes to 13t, 11t, & 9t bars? Is that teeth on the roller? I thought I knew a little about cutting wood & saws until I tried to learn more. Now it seems like the more I learn the less I know.
When you understand the designs of your hand tools it can make life wood cutting a lot easier.
SawTroll  mentioned about a 13 tooth 3/8" sprocket nose bar. The only bar sold today in that large nose size is a 25" Stihl bar that appears to have a market for steady professional bore cutting applications in hardwood harvesting.
The last time Oregon made them was in the early 1980s, it was called the medium contour bar. The reason it's  preferred for heavy bore cutting is it's larger sprocket and bearing geometry offers more durability in steady rigorous bore cutting.

A 11 tooth 3/8 sprocket nose bar is your standard yellow grade ES Stihl , PowerMatch Oregon  bar or Carlton/Windsor  Speed Tip bars.
A 9 tooth 3/8" is your green small radius bars mostly in laminated design, they offer excellent kickback reduction especially in bore cutting and limbing. Only drawback is durability with it's much smaller sprocket bearing design . But having said that the increased  kickback energy and vibration of the larger noses can also cause their bearings to fail.
The 9 t noses burn  out easier when a high h.p. powerhead turns the chain when the nose is pinched in a cut from my experience.
But if your only bore cutting a few trees and not for a living I strongly advise you to put a Oregon Double Guard nose on any Oregon PowerMatch bar .........from 16" to 42".
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Offline Caloren

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Re: Plunge Cut
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2015, 11:43:15 AM »

A 9 tooth 3/8" is your green small radius bars mostly in laminated design, they offer excellent kickback reduction especially in bore cutting and limbing. Only drawback is durability with it's much smaller sprocket bearing design .
[/quote]

Holmen, I think you just answered a question I didn't know I had! When I bought the little MS170 I wondered why it had such a small nose bar on it. Thought it almost looked like a wood carving nose, it must have been for it's anti kickback properties. When I finished building a small 8x12 log shed, using the 170 to cut notches in the logs, the bar was worn out so replaced it with a 50 gauge bar with a wider nose. Like it much better!
Loren
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