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Author Topic: New customer, fired customer.  (Read 7691 times)

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Offline customsawyer

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New customer, fired customer.
« on: November 04, 2015, 07:21:28 PM »
Had a customer come by this evening wanting me to sharpen and set his blades. Not a problem until I look at them closer. He has been sharpening them with a Dremel  tool and now they will no longer cut. He figured if I sharpened and set them then he could go back to his Dremel tool for awhile. I informed him that I would have to charge him more than a new blade cost to fix his blades. If he wants to sharpen with a Dremel tool he needs to plan on doing it for the life of the blade. I have no stones for my CBN sharpener or cams for my Cooks sharpener that will match what he is doing with a Dremel tool. 
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head planer, 30" double surface planer, Lucus dedicated slaber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Offline Dan_Shade

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Re: New customer, fired customer.
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2015, 07:29:36 PM »
you coulda just used your dremel   :D

Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Offline drobertson

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Re: New customer, fired customer.
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2015, 07:30:26 PM »
you bet, see ya would not want to be ya!  some folks just never will figure it out,  you did good on this call,,
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Offline Magicman

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Re: New customer, fired customer.
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2015, 07:42:14 PM »
That was no customer, that was someone making your meal get cold.   :-\
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Offline Kbeitz

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Re: New customer, fired customer.
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2015, 07:43:46 PM »
I use a dremel to sharpen mine...If they arnt cutting right it's time to put some set back into them...
Other than that the dremel does a fine job. Best part is not having to remove the blade from the saw to do it.
Collector and builder of many things.
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and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Offline pineywoods

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Re: New customer, fired customer.
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2015, 08:25:24 PM »
This is further proof that Jake is a lot smarter than me. Had one show up yesterday, didn't just have blades, he brung the whole DanG mill. 14 year old lt40 that's definitely been rode hard and put away wet. Says "fix it". I'll start another post on "fixin  it" . Gonna be quite a project, stuff missing, things broke, things bent, never been greased, been out in the weather it's entire life, usually buried in sawdust..What was I thinkin..........
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
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Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: New customer, fired customer.
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2015, 10:26:24 PM »
That would be hard on a CBN.
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Offline gmmills

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Re: New customer, fired customer.
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2015, 10:46:46 PM »
  Jake, you spent more time with the customer than I would of. People don't seem to realize that a blade is a precision tool. In order for it to perform at it's top potential the original tooth profile must be maintained. Using a dremel tool to  sharpen a blade is just wrong in too many ways to elaborate on this late in the evening. There is no way to even come close to matching the blades original profile.  I have well over $10,000 invested in blade maintenance equipment that enables me to match profiles to exacting tolerances. This is a must if you would like to keep your lumber quality and mill productivity at a high level.

   For any of you new members, mill owners, that are thinking of sharpening your blades using a dremel tool, do your self and your blood pressure a big favor. Just don't do it.  There are no exceptions for a properly maintained blade.

Custom sawing full-time since 2000. 
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Offline hackberry jake

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Re: New customer, fired customer.
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2015, 10:47:26 PM »
What was I thinkin..........

Hourly is what I would've been thinking...
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

Offline Dan_Shade

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Re: New customer, fired customer.
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2015, 11:31:02 PM »
Just remember:  There is no satisfaction like finishing a job that you realize that you should have never started!

Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Offline Cedarman

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Re: New customer, fired customer.
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2015, 06:52:17 AM »
Just remember:  There is no satisfaction like finishing a job that you realize that you should have never started!
That saying is for the memory bank!!!!
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Offline Magicman

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Re: New customer, fired customer.
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2015, 07:59:01 AM »
The reason the WM does not resharpen blades other than their own is because of the profile.  CBN "wheels" can not be used to change or to correct a profile.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

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Offline Kbeitz

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Re: New customer, fired customer.
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2015, 08:03:09 AM »
  Jake, you spent more time with the customer than I would of. People don't seem to realize that a blade is a precision tool. In order for it to perform at it's top potential the original tooth profile must be maintained. Using a dremel tool to  sharpen a blade is just wrong in too many ways to elaborate on this late in the evening. There is no way to even come close to matching the blades original profile.  I have well over $10,000 invested in blade maintenance equipment that enables me to match profiles to exacting tolerances. This is a must if you would like to keep your lumber quality and mill productivity at a high level.

   For any of you new members, mill owners, that are thinking of sharpening your blades using a dremel tool, do your self and your blood pressure a big favor. Just don't do it.  There are no exceptions for a properly maintained blade.

Normally I would agree with you...  Some people can mess up a chainsaw with a file.
Or they can really mess up a drill bit with a grinder. But a few of us can sharpen a drill bits better
than or as good as a machine. I live on  a Christmas tree farm and we needed a way to sharpen
chainsaws fast. No time to remove the chain and put in the machine. So I got good at using a
grinder and a dremel for sharping things. I do all my sharpening by hand... Everything.
I have the right tools to do the job but I've done so much sharpening that I do the job
good enough with out machines to at least keep me happy.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Offline POSTON WIDEHEAD

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Re: New customer, fired customer.
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2015, 08:17:12 AM »
Was this customer someone that had just recently got a new mill?  ::) :D
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

Offline pineywoods

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Re: New customer, fired customer.
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2015, 08:24:15 AM »
Was this customer someone that had just recently got a new mill?  ::) :D

Yep, brand new lt35 hydraulic..
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
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Offline Cutting Edge

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Re: New customer, fired customer.
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2015, 08:49:35 AM »
Just a few days ago, I had a customer who inquired about using a Dremel for "Touching Up" his blades between sharpenings.  I quickly explained to him that if he did so, the blade would be pretty much non-serviceable from that point on.  After some detailed explanation as to why I would reject those blades, he quickly discarded the idea.  This is a case of, "Trying to save a Dime, will end up costing a Dollar".  Which in this scenario, it is several Dollars when you calculate the initial blade costs and potential lumber that could've been sawn over the life of the blade.

As customsawyer stated, an attempt to resharpen or repair those blades to acceptable condition could exceed the value of a new blade.

Come to find out, he had gotten this idea from a recent thread here on the FF.

 
   For any of you new members, mill owners, that are thinking of sharpening your blades using a dremel tool, do your self and your blood pressure a big favor. JUST DON"T DO IT !!!  There are no exceptions for a properly maintained blade.



X 2 To what gmmills stated.

The reason a blade is all but "junk" is because of a couple reasons...

1)  The tooth spacing is altered because sharpening with a Dremel (or similar tooling) RUINS the tooth spacing.  Once this happens, it will never be re-established before the blade has reached the end of it's life... I've tried.

2)  The radius at the base of the tooth will be changed

Quality sharpening equipment indexes each tooth from this small radius located at the base of the tooth.  If this area is altered, even by a few thousandths of an inch, the remaining profile cannot properly sharpened... if at all.  Do this to every tooth and it you can quickly imagine the headache.

Below is a picture of a blade (one of several) that a customer brought awhile back.  These blades had been done on a modified chainsaw sharpener operated by a retired machinist... Yes, a machinist !! 

These blade were new and had only been re-sharpened ONCE by this individual.  The customer literally COULD NOT cut the slab off the log, let alone saw a straight board.  From what he said," The lumber wasn't fit for a hog pen !! "  He said a couple blades actually broke because they cracked in the area where this "machinist" had gouged out such a deep recess at the base of the tooth.

The bad part for him was when I refused to even attempt to repair the damage to his blades... they were junk.  So he was out the cost of a NEW blade and the cost of the "sharpening".  Plus, he was going to have to purchase blades... again.  To add insult to injury...  NOT one single board could be sawn to meet his expectations.

The blade below started it's life as a WM 10 deg.  The "machinist" had changed it to an average of 19 degrees.  As you can see, this blade and many more were destined for the scrap pile.  Nuff said.



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Offline Magicman

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Re: New customer, fired customer.
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2015, 09:23:54 AM »
I would never condemn a person or method of resharpening, even though it may not be acceptable to me.

If a person chooses to sharpen their blade(s) by hand, then they must accept the fact that that (Tom) is the only way that the blade can ever be resharpened in the future.  With that acceptance in mind, we make blade sharpening choices based on our available resources, skills, and limitations.

In like manner, that self sharpening guy may need a reality check such as customsawyer had to give in the OP.  He may not have understood the seriousness of the precision necessary for proper machine resharpening.  Now he does.   ;)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Offline deadfall

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Re: New customer, fired customer.
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2015, 09:49:32 AM »
I've been truly impressed at the home builds of machine sharpeners I have seen here at the FF.  I know the purchase of a machine is somewhere in my future, assuming I have one (a future, that is).  Having had a machine in the past, I really enjoy that process.  I have been filing and grinding various saws for 45 years now.  I should just go ahead and build a small shack for a machine, because, as what's been said above, the machines make certain demands of regularity, and so, these bands are best suited to machine sharpening, at least as concerns blade life.  I hate to waste anything.  I will touch up my buzz saw teeth with a hand grinder between machine sharpenings, but not any bands. 
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Offline Kingmt

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Re: New customer, fired customer.
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2015, 10:30:47 AM »
This thread seems a bit harsh. I don't know anything about sharping a blade since I've never tried it. I have looked into the matter some tho with the intent of giving it a try.

I've seen several say there blades are better then new, it takes 10 minutes, & they get four sharpings.
I don't know what you guys charge to sharpen but if guess at least $5. For me there would be shipping also. So for me if I could get one sharpening that brings me down to a $15 blade, twice $10, three $5, & the fourth one of I get it would make it free.

Some people have skill at free handing. I never could use one of the drill sharpeners I've tried but I can free hand a drill to cut what ever I want.
Sawmill=Harbor Freight Item#62366
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Please excuse my typing. I don't do well at catching auto correct.

Offline Joe Hillmann

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Re: New customer, fired customer.
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2015, 11:25:04 AM »
This thread seems a bit harsh. I don't know anything about sharping a blade since I've never tried it. I have looked into the matter some tho with the intent of giving it a try.

I've seen several say there blades are better then new, it takes 10 minutes, & they get four sharpings.
I don't know what you guys charge to sharpen but if guess at least $5. For me there would be shipping also. So for me if I could get one sharpening that brings me down to a $15 blade, twice $10, three $5, & the fourth one of I get it would make it free.

Some people have skill at free handing. I never could use one of the drill sharpeners I've tried but I can free hand a drill to cut what ever I want.

I kind of agree with kingmt on this. 

Although I don't think I would believe who says a blade sharpened with a dremal cuts better than new.  I may cut much better than it did when dull but I doubt better than new.

Recently I had a local guy sharpen my blades (with the proper equiptment) and when I got them back they cut very well for the first board then after that they felt dull.  I took a closer look and on every blade about half the teeth were blue at the tip.  So that shows that more than just the right equipment is required to get sharp blades.

Since then I have been sharpening my own blades.  I tried a dremal, and angle grinder, and a chain saw sharpener.  They all would sharpen the blade but change the cutting angle.

What I do now is I use a sharpening wheel in my lathe and clamp a large 10 degree guide to the lathe to keep my angle right and have the wheel profiled to the gullet of the blade.  With this set up I get a pretty decently sharpened blade.  I by no means would say it is better than new or better than it it was sharpened on proper equipment by someone who had it adjusted properly but probably close.

By sharpening my own I know from now on I have to do it myself.  They can no longer be sharpened on a band sharpener.

I think my blades are about $18.  If I remember correctly sharpening + shipping was right around $6 or $7 per blade.  So if I sharpen my own blades (and get the same life out of them as if I sent them out) 3 times I could throw the blades away and it would be cheaper than having them sharpened.  This is assuming my time is worth nothing.


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