041 AV Extremely hard to pull

Rick237 · November 11, 2015, 09:35:12 PM

I got this saw new over forty years ago. My father bought it for me when I went to live in the north woods. It is 61 cc and was never easy to pull, especially when cold. I have used it to cut about thirty cord of firewood over the years. After I learned how to sharpen the chain which took about two years and about five cord, it rips through logs. I have known some professionals and could match them in cutting speed. One of them told me that I would never wear out my saw but eventually I would not be able to get parts. Time has proven that he was right. I have not done much cutting in the last ten years and now find that it almost impossible to pull the cord. The compression has increased because it turns fine without the spark plug. It is so hard to pull, I cannot pull it fast so when it hits, it snaps my fist back into the machine. If I keep trying, eventually it hits just right and roars back to life. I can see that the top of the piston is black with carbon. I am desperate for some advice because the compression is off the charts and would appreciate any comments. I wonder if it would be difficult to install a decompressing valve. I am thinking about putting a propane torch in the spark plug hole and blasting away. I have done that to spark plugs and it worked great to clean them. About one or two cords ago, I did switch from a 25 : 1 mix to a 50 : 1 mix. I have started it every day for the past week but the compression is still off the charts. I prime it, put it on the ground, step on the rear, put about 100 lbs of force on the handle, take the slack off the cord, then apply about 50 lbs of pull to move the piston for one pop. After smashing my fist three or four times and another prime, it usually starts. I used to always drop start it but now, forget about it. I removed the muffler to replace a screw and the port and piston looked good.

HolmenTree · November 11, 2015, 10:59:11 PM

Sounds like your saw's piston and cylinder has lots of carbon buildup from that heavy mix from over the years.
You'll have to remove the cylinder.
Welcome to the forum.

Rick237 · November 12, 2015, 12:51:33 AM

Thanks a lot. What you say makes a lot of sense. I will try to get any gaskets that are needed but was told a few years ago by a Stihl dealer that there were no more parts. I did use Stihl oil and used the recommended mix. The last time I bought mix oil, I was told to go to 50: 1 which I did. So, it wasn't my fault.

Thanks again.

deerslayer · November 12, 2015, 01:21:54 AM

Although carbon buildup is a likely cause of your problem, issues with the rope and pulley can be culprits as well. Is the rope the normal length? If you have a short rope, that can make the saw harder to pull over as the pulley isn't as full.

Rick237 · November 12, 2015, 02:50:47 AM

Thanks deerslayer -- Is the original rope and about 32 inches including the handle.

bandmiller2 · November 12, 2015, 08:04:58 AM

Better high than low comp. I rebuilt a husky 365 years ago and could barely pull it over one compression at a time but she started and cut with fury. As long as she will start use it I would squirt a little penetrating oil in the plug hole and let it sit. Good chance it will loosen and probably burn excess carbon. Yes your buddy was right about the old Stihls I have a 1976 031 AV and a 041 they just keep trucken if you can find parts, if you find parts saws cheap squirrel them away. Frank C.

deerslayer · November 12, 2015, 09:00:57 AM

Just because Stihl doesn't support a product anymore doesn't mean parts aren't available. There's a lot of stuff available and now with the internet, they can be found. Used, aftermarket, new old stock, options are out there if you want to keep one of these old saws in service. As stated previously, pick up a parts saw or two for extra parts. ie, take three saws and make two, then one...

kenskip1 · November 12, 2015, 11:41:05 AM

Thanks deerslayer -- Is the original rope and about 32 inches including the handle.

As an owner of a 041 I can attest to its longevity. My suspicion is with the rope. As time marches on the rope is wearing or getting narrower. This causes the rope to wedge itself inside the pulley. Basically acting like a back lashed fishing reel.As this happens you loose all mechanical leverage and the saw acts like it has more compression than it really has.As the rope is rewound on the pulley the mechanical leverage increases. If the rope gets wedged in the pulley because of normal wear then you are feeling the classic symptoms that you are experiencing. I would also inspect the recoil spool for cracks. Get the proper size rope. Ken

Rick237 · November 12, 2015, 01:30:55 PM

Thanks Frank -- I did try some penatrating oil but did not let it sit and I also filled it with some B12 and let it sit overnight. I think that it did help a little because, after starting it and running it a few times, I noticed that some of the carbon did burn off the piston top. It was still black but smoother looking than before. Did not feel easier to start but it is definitly worth another try. I will warm up the saw first and maybe that will help.

Rick237 · November 12, 2015, 01:32:29 PM

Thanks again deerslayer. I will try to find any gaskets that I might need. I am no mechanic but I do have the shop manual which has been a great help in the past. I recently used it to remove the muffler which was a big job for me. Could not have done it without the manual. And, I have the parts list so was able to go a hardware store and get the correct muffler screws.

Rick237 · November 12, 2015, 01:38:34 PM

Thanks ken -- Sounds like a good idea to check out the rope and pulley first before I attempt to remove cylinder.

HolmenTree · November 12, 2015, 02:23:35 PM

You have to be careful loosening up alot of carbon at once and then running the saw to get it out. It can scuff the p/c up pretty good.

sawguy21 · November 12, 2015, 02:54:12 PM

Have you experienced an increase in exhaust smoke? The Stihl 'lay downs' had the oil pump inboard of the crank seal, they were known to leak and fill the crankcase. The result is a hydraulic lock.

HolmenTree · November 12, 2015, 03:14:04 PM

I had a 044AV that had a tiny chain oil leak into the crankcase after it sat long enough.
Was harder then blazes to start it , then would smoke for a bit when it got running.

ZeroJunk · November 12, 2015, 04:58:50 PM

Quote from: sawguy21 on November 12, 2015, 02:54:12 PM
Have you experienced an increase in exhaust smoke? The Stihl 'lay downs' had the oil pump inboard of the crank seal, they were known to leak and fill the crankcase. The result is a hydraulic lock.

Could you hang it after use with the bar straight down and see if it made any difference ?

Texas-Jim · November 12, 2015, 08:47:48 PM

Stihl offers a lot of parts that are available. Some are out dated but lot of after market companies make parts as well. Was there a specific part you needed?

Al_Smith · November 12, 2015, 09:34:38 PM

Two things .It's highly unlikely the saw gained compression from sitting .It's also unlikely it carboned up from heavier oil /fuel mix .

Fact of the matter I've worked on saws over 40 years old, had sat 20 that were ran on 16 to 1 mix using motor oil not mix oil that weren't carboned up .

My bet is it's something with the rope or starter drum binding .

Rick237 · November 13, 2015, 02:26:57 AM

Hollmen -- Thanks for the warning. I will do a little at a time and then keep starting it and hope for the best. Removing the cylinder sounds like a better idea but it also sounds a lot more involved and I am afraid that I would need a gasket.

sawguy -- I have not noticed more smoke but will be more aware. Thanks.

Texas-Jim -- My filter cover is held on by duct tape because the threads stripped a few years ago and I was told by a Stihl dealer that there were no more parts for my model. I also tore a carb gasket into two pieces but it still seems to work fine. I would also like to pull the rope cover and may need a gasket for that. And a cylinder gasket would be nice in case I need to remove it.

Al_Smith -- Thanks for your input. Maybe I should remove the rope cover even though the rope winds smooth without the spark plug.

PS I warmed the engine by running it for minute and then sprayed a bunch of Blaster penetrator oil into the warm cylinder, let it sit for several hours and then got it started after banging my knuckles about ten times. It smoked like crazy for about a minute but sounded good. Thanks again to all you guys for all your help.

Texas-Jim · November 14, 2015, 12:35:49 AM

Stihl doesnt offer the nut but theres several on ebay now plus i think theres a sponsor here as well. 1110 140 9500 is the part number for the slotted nut. carb gasket is avalible.

Rick237 · November 14, 2015, 03:03:25 PM

Thanks Texas Jim -- You have all been a big help. I have an update. I took my saw to a Factory certified Stihl tech who works at a Stihl tool rental. I told him that it was very hard to pull the cord and impossible to start without having at least one or two kick backs. He took my cold saw, pulled it about seven or eight times with no kick backs and it started. I was embarrassed. I then started it with two pulls but the first pull kicked back. Clearly, I need to improve my technique. He said that many saws get hard to pull when they get old and if I wanted an easier pull, I should buy a new saw. He had a new 461 on sale for $882 and said that it was much easier to start even though it is 76 cc compared to my 61 cc. A saw comparable to mine would be $500. He noticed that I drilled a small hole in the air filter cover and covered it with a piece of tape and he knew, without me telling him, that I used it to prime the engine. He liked it a lot which made me feel less like a newbie. I am proud of that modification because I thought of it on my own and it works great. On a cold start, it used to take seven or eight full pulls to get a hit. Now, I squirt in a little fuel and get a hit on the first pull. Thanks again to everyone. I learned a lot including how to live with a saw that is very hard to pull.

starmac · November 14, 2015, 06:57:25 PM

My old 266 has gotten a lot harder to pull the rope the last ten years or so, but I don't think it is the saws fault.

sawguy21 · November 14, 2015, 10:56:44 PM

:D I hear ya.

gspren · November 15, 2015, 03:37:50 PM

My 041 and 044 both got harder to pull after I started using my 261 75% of the time. Funny how of the 3 only the 261 has a decompression button and it don't need it.

kenskip1 · November 15, 2015, 05:10:13 PM

The only thing if it is not the rope could be ignition timing.Your dealer is after your $$. All I am able to come up with that you are either using to much oil or not running the saw hard enough to burn the oil out of the cylinder.Something else to consider is gas is leaking down into the cylinder causing your issues. This will defiantly cause a hard starting condition. Ken

Rick237 · November 15, 2015, 07:35:34 PM

ken -- I think that you are right about the dealer because he did not offer any advice except to buy a new saw. The top of the piston and cylinder are definitly carboned up because I can see it from the plug hole. And, I know that you are right about the timing. If I could retard the timing when starting, that would solve my problem because I cannot pull the cord fast enough to prevent kick backs. Yesterday, I tried for ten minutes to start it on the ground but failed because it kept kicking back. I then succeeded in drop starting it which allows me to pull it a bit faster. There should be a simple retard timing switch. It would be just as good as a decompression valve, IMO. I have been thinking about retarding the timing and have never tried but I do have the manual. On a car, it is easy to do. I just bought a D handle at Lowes for six bucks.