OldJarheads Milling Thread...

[Chuck White]

Won't take very long for the mill to pay for itself, Erik!

[Bandmill Bandit]

Hey Erik

You sure got a good start to your retirement career. MY mill paid for it self in a bit less than 2 years of part time sawing.

I am working on a 1 ton  with a picker right now. It is 2001 Dodge 3500 that belongs to the tire shop I get my tires done at. Has 132 000KMs on a V10 that has some ECM issues and that they have not been able fix. The owner wants to build a cabin on his west country 1/2 section and I asked him if we could include the truck in the deal. He said we should go look at the logs that are being logged right now for the road in and the building site. Road is about a 3/4 mile and the site is 5 acres. From the pics he has taken It looks to be a pretty good stand of BIG White Spruce on the south 1/4 and Jack Pine towards north and west side of the second 1/4. He says a couple of boggy areas have some good sized tamarack too.

If it works out I May have a truck with picker and a 10 ft flat deck that needs a motor (if I can't fix the one in it) for the price value he is thinking for the picker ($3500).

From the log volume count he has from the clearing operation I think he may have enough lumber to build his 800sq ft cabin, 28' x 32'  barn, and 32' x 48' shop and then some. The logger it is cutting 8', 10', 12', 14', 16', with the processor and is cutting the biggest and straightest pine logs to 20's for beams in the barn and shop. 

Logger is estimating between 200 and 250 Cu Metres of good saw logs and about that much fire wood as well not counting the tamarack.

From those number I am guessing about 18MBF based on the loggers estimates. IF I am way off some please correct me.

So I may end up with a truck and the money to fix it from the same job.
The picker is in very good shape and works well. I hooked it up to a tractor to test it and there are not  even any oil leaks.

So not to derail your thoughts BUT see if you can find a rig like that. The area you live and work in has quite a few of those rigs around as there is a pretty good sized farming community that the tire shops will use trucks like that to service ag tractors in the field.

Keep your eyes open as you cruise around the country.


     

[OlJarhead]

Not a bad plan ;) but for me I'm looking for a Diesel and full box for the camper ;)  This next job is a good reason why -- I do most of my milling 50 miles or more away from home and in remote locations so a place to 'camp' with comforts while I'm milling is the plan.

I'm thinking an 06 or 07 F350 duely with 4wd so I can get where I need to go, save fuel (better mileage on the big diesels than the gassers and be able to pull my tractor or mill while hauling the camper....and it wouldn't hurt to have the hauling capacity for lumber when I can start milling for share (mill has to be paid for first as well as truck and camper) should I choose to do so just for the lumber.

[Bandmill Bandit]

Yea Erik

I would ideally like a deisel too but I like the flat deck cause its big enough for a camper and the rest of my milling gear/tools. IF I can't get the motor running I have access to a cummins out of an 02 that would probably get dropped in there in place of the V10. This truck has a 5 speed and is 4X4.

[Kbeitz]

You better start lookin for a camper now. In my area a slide in truck camper
in good condition is real hard to find used. New ones are BIG $$$$
The older ones are way to heavy. I got lucky and found a new one
that had roof damage. I just made a new roof.



 

[mesquite buckeye]

Bandmill Bandit- Good job on teaching a guy with tons of book learning and no practical skill. You may have changed his life for the better, not to mention his voting tendencies.

I think a class on real stuff needs to be taught to the academic track students in high school. I think we would all be better off for it.

[WV Sawmiller]

   Its a real pleasure watching a good young man who is willing and interested enough to add to his academic knowledge the practical experience the old timers have learned over time. I've seen young engineers and young military officers just starting out who took the time to listen to the old experienced craftsmen or NCOs and they generally succeeded. Likewise I have seen others just like them who came out with an attitude that college or OCS/TBS taught them everything they needed to know and who were determined to show everyone they were in charge. The experienced craftsmen or NCOs, as the case might be, would oblige them and step back and let them fail.

   I used to welcome my new arrivals in USMC and later in my civilian career tell them just because we did something one way did not mean it was the best or only way possible and I encouraged them to ask questions and make recommendations. Sometimes a new set of eyes could see a much simpler way to solve a problem than those of us who had struggled with it so long it was as if we had blinders on. Often a young private or PFC would come aboard who had worked on a farm or summer job or such who had knowledge from there that helped us out.

[GAB]

[partial quote author=WV Sawmiller link=topic=89720.msg1403681#msg1403681 date=1467305343]
Often a young private or PFC would come aboard who had worked on a farm or summer job or such who had knowledge from there that helped us out.
[/quote]

Yup them there dumb farm boys - I know cuz I r 1.
Frequently have plan b and even plan c in their back pocket or up a sleeve.
Gerald

[OlJarhead]

If it doesn't rain it pours!  I'll be milling a LOT in the coming weeks it seems.  Have a one day job to do this weekend, then a 2 day job after that and finally a week or so of milling after that!  July is looking like a good month for me and I have a few more irons in the fire :D

Can't wait to get back to making sawdust after making very very little in June!

[tnaz]

Sounds real good for ya.  Good luck and don't spend it all in one place!!! :D :D :D

[OlJarhead]

Customers!  never believe them ;)

That 'week or so' job is starting to sound more like a few days at best since all the logs he has are pretty much 8" SE DIA 16 footers...even at just 150bf/hr those won't take but 3 days or so.

Still, that doesn't sound so bad and and I won't feel rushed ;)  After all, these are for graded lumber.

[Bandmill Bandit]

Thats a by the hour job in my world. Hate em but they can be money makers.

[OlJarhead]

Thats a by the hour job in my world. Hate em but they can be money makers.

All of mine are by the hour

[Bandmill Bandit]

Thats a by the hour job in my world. Hate em but they can be money makers.

All of mine are by the hour

99.9% of mine are too. Has to be a super good job for me to do BF rate.

[OlJarhead]

Next job.  Not nearly as big as I had hoped or expected....seems the 'thinning of 23 acres' turned into thinning of more like 5 acres and none of the timber was very big...but the 'Ponderosa' turned into Larch and Doug Fir (mostly) and very straight with little to no knots


I start this one milling alone but will get an off-bearer on Friday and Saturday.

It's only about 5000 bf though as most tops are only about 8" so it will be a challenge to get more than that out of it.

[OlJarhead]

Set up and ready to go (just have to roll the 2nd log off the forks and buck the one on the deck down to 10 or 12 feet to remove the taper)...

I should be milling over 100 logs this week/weekend.  They are small logs though so we'll see how it goes but I estimate the yield to be around 5000bf

Wish me luck! ;)

I'm milling 3/16ths over nominal for the customer.  I was thinking 1/8th over would be fine but this is all Doug Fir and I know it shrinks more in drying than ponderosa does (which barely shrinks at all) so figured a little extra won't hurt ;)

The customer originally wanted full cut but since they don't have the 10k+ bf they need to build their home with I suggest we go to nominal width (plus 1/8th or 3/16ths for drying/shrinkage).

[Magicman]

Nice job.  On logs like that, I get better production when sawing from the top end rather than the butt. 

[Bandmill Bandit]

Nice job.  On logs like that, I get better production when sawing from the top end rather than the butt.

Ditto For me too. I find that you have to have a consistent deck of 12" diameter and up to saw from the butt end 16" is even better.

[OlJarhead]

Managed to get 950bf out of 14 logs today working alone.  Production was a lot slower than I'm used to but all in all a good day still.

I did have to buck 3 logs to 10' or that would have been higher and I had to lift the nose of the mill up one notch on the front outrigger as it was a tad low and the head was sliding a little too easily towards me.

Too bad I didn't know I'd do better with the butts on the far end! But thanks for the note, in the future I'll swing them around (actually I'll have the customer do that)...just didn't realize the extra effort per log to level the pith.



Tomorrow I have help and I hope to get at least 50% more production (twice would be nice) but I doubt I'll get through all these logs before COB Sunday!  This is my first job with all of the logs small like this and I must admit I was surprised at how slow my production was overall despite running the mill (latter part of the day -- maybe 60% of the time) around 12 o'clock on the dial.  It handled the load just fine running that fast and the lumber came off nice and smooth.  Seems this small doug fir mills faster than the big Ponderosa I'm used to.

I've milled Doug Fir several times but always big stuff, this is the first time all the logs have been 40 to 70bf each so it's a challenge (I find) to produce much per hour.  I think I ran about 125bf/hr with these which makes sense since I was milling about 2 logs per hour.

Here's hoping tomorrow will go faster ;)

OH and I brain farted today  :( :   I started the day with Simple Set sitting at 1 11/16ths before realizing I'd not accounted for the Kerf!  DOH!  I reset it to 1 3/4" and gee wiz I was an 1/8th over on every cut....*smacks self*

I milled a lot of 2x4's today also but started switching to 2x6's later in the day as I realized production would improve and the customer wants about 2400bf of each so they were needed.  Of course, I'll have to do both anyway but with help everything will go faster so it won't be as much of an issue.

I have to admit that I wonder how those of you who mill alone manage when the log deck averages about 50-70bf per log?

[Brucer]

That's easy -- charge more ;D.

Seriously, though, a 12" top x 8' long will typically yield one 8x8 and four 1x6's, or just under 60 BF. It doesn't take long to process a log like that. Of course 10' is better, and 12' better yet.

When I owned the logs and was selling the product I would charge twice as much for the timbers as for the side lumber.

[OlJarhead]

I wish there were 12" tops! ha!  Most are in the 8 and 9 inch range and I'm lucky to get a 5 5/8" cant out of them ;)  They are 16 feet long though so I can get more than shorter logs

[OlJarhead]

Half way through the day   The customer showed up at about 9am (15 mins after I started milling) and said "wow"   After some instruction and safety discussion they began to help and despite the learning curve (which as we all know isn't long or steep) things got rolling along nicely   I was milling about 3 logs an hour now, maybe more.  Then thunder and hail hit us and they went to town for lunch while I sat and ate in my truck.  Soon it slacked off and I was back at it.  15 minutes later and the customer was back and we were making sawdust again.  Then the customer got stung by some bees or wasps and she and the kids left to get benedryl and thought they might be back tomorrow.....I was at a dozen logs and cranked out 6 more on my own   I had a system down and am almost as fast now working alone!

First thing I did was return, somewhat, to my manual milling days and ran the saw to the middle of the log, took a reading and backed up and set it 1.5" low and started milling.  That works so much better than my guessing ;) or trying to look down the log.  Now I was making better cants with less flitches coming off.

Next I redid the math in my head and finally, after what? 6 years?  I finally got the math down (where is the hammer on the head emoticon?) 7 3/8" gives me a cant I can split for two 3 5/8" beams to mill down.  9 3/8" gives me a 4x and a 6x (nominal plus 1/8), 11 3/8 makes two 6x's -- DOH!  too easy.  With that finally stuck (I almost never make nominal....come to think of it I never do!).....I thought:  gee whiz, if I just take two 1 3/4 boards and double that's 3 1/2" and 2 more is 7" minus the need for a final kerf makes 6 7/8....and so on....

I was rolling now and cranked out 50bf+ logs in 15=20 mins no problem :D  Happy Dance!  8)


Finished the day with 1586 board feet despite only having help for about 4 hours (probably less and the training time took away from milling time).

Thanks to Peter Druin for his suggestion on how to stack the lumber when milling alone!  DOH!  Makes too much sense and as soon as I got it down I was definately moving faster.  Only trouble I have is slabs but even those are not much of an issue though the slab pile is growing.

They originally had about 80-100 saw logs and there were only 54 in the original log deck...then it grew while I was whittling away at it.  I'm down to 73 in the deck now and another 50 or so still to be decked!  I'll have to come back to finish this job and it is now the largest, by far, in logs that I've done (not maybe the largest in BF but the logs are small).

I did 18 logs today and hope to break that again tomorrow

We shall see!

[Kbeitz]

First thing I did was return, somewhat, to my manual milling days and ran the saw to the middle of the log, took a reading and backed up and set it 1.5" low and started milling.  That works so much better than my guessing ;) or trying to look down the log.  Now I was making better cants with less flitches coming off.

I put a stick on tape  measure on my carriage that  measures from the bottom up.
It faces down the carriage. This way I can walk to the middle of the log to see where
I want my cut with a hand held tape  measure and set the carriage using the stick
on tape  measure. I hope that made sense.

[Chuck White]

[quote
First thing I did was return, somewhat, to my manual milling days and ran the saw to the middle of the log, took a reading and backed up and set it 1.5" low and started milling.  That works so much better than my guessing ;) or trying to look down the log.  Now I was making better cants with less flitches coming off.

I put a stick on tape  measure on my carriage that  measures from the bottom up.
It faces down the carriage. This way I can walk to the middle of the log to see where
I want my cut with a hand held tape  measure and set the carriage using the stick
on tape  measure. I hope that made sense.
[/quote]

Why not just take a reading off of the sawmill scale?

Just run the mill down to the middle, lower the band, take a reading and go back to the beginning and start cutting, like Erik said!

Better than taking a guess and have to make the opening cut over again!   ;)

[Bandmill Bandit]

Since I put the green laser on I have realized just how indispensable it is. I don't like to cut without it.

I don't know this for sure but I would guess in logs like you are cutting now it would give me an extra log per hour.