OldJarheads Milling Thread...

[Peter Drouin]

Best to look at all the grounds on the mill.

[OlJarhead]

Even though the pump runs?

[doc henderson]

maybe the switch that opens the valve.

[Magicman]

velocity fuse valves in the cylinder lines

Those are at the bottom of the loader hydraulic cylinders and will prevent the loader from dropping if a hydraulic line ruptures.  Nothing to do with anything else.

[Peter Drouin]

I thought you said the hidro works with playing with the handles to get it going.
Call WM.

[OlJarhead]

Yes, in the video you can see it working at times.  Works fine, then it doesn't.

So far WM has suggested the brass/copper block that makes the contact on the power bar (which was problematic and needed to be replaced) and the brushes in the motor.  The problem is trying to diagnose over the phone but also, James, my go to tech at WM was on the road this week for a show and unavailable.

Now, something occurred last night that gave me pause and made me think of what @barbender was saying:  when I took off the fill cap things worked about 90% better.  ??? ??? ???

Then I put it back on and they did NOT work.  I left it there and began to think that maybe the issue is that the tank must be vented and the vented cap is plugged up so I'm going to go run it without the cap on for a bit and see if I'm right and I'm going to blow out the cap with some compressed air to see if I can clean it out. 

With luck, that might be the main issue and it just needs to be cleaned out to prevent the system from over pressuring.

[WV Sawmiller]

   While you are talking hydraulics, on a recent 50 hour service I got alarmed because I found the plug n the middle of the plastic fill plug to my hydraulic fluid reservoir was missing. I was going to replace it with another plug then I found you have to have that hole in the fill plug so the reservoir can breathe as you activate the system. If I had plugged that hole I would probably have blown a line or fitting somewhere. :

[barbender]

Hmm again. My pumps on my '97 Super have vents on top of the pump, seperate from the plug. I'll have to look at your video again and see how yours is set up.

[OlJarhead]

Meanwhile, my neighbors dad was the sheriff of the next town over and even showed me his old Colt .45 from those days (would have been in the 40's I'm guessing)...
Black Locust, Maple & Black Walnut On The Sawmill - YouTube

Now I need to do more troubleshooting!

OH and you may even notice at one point I reach up and pull the head back further -- that is what started the whole hydraulics troubleshooting!

[OlJarhead]

Hmmmmm

OK, I ran my test;  I took the filler cap (which is vented) off the Hydraulic tank and ran the hydraulics again and it was definitely an improvement!  In fact, things ran so much better I thought maybe all was well, until they didn't but it was short lived and seemed like things had definitely improved.

After running things for a bit the battery, despite being on a 10A setting on the charger, began to drain too much and the charger was clicking at me!  I stopped and decided to go over all the hoses etc and discovered a leak!!!  The side support hydraulic cylinder was leaking somewhere and after cleaning it all up as best I could it appeared to be leaking from a fitting.  Hmm...evidence also suggests it had been leaking for a while.

After more or less cleaning things up (no water, just air and rags for now since it's in my wood shop) I decided to fire the motor up and run things more.  

With the shop door open, I ran the motor and hydraulics and again, they appeared better but not totally.  After shutdown there was certainly a small, class 1, maybe 2 leak.  OK, maybe just a loose fitting?  Doesn't feel loose.  I may need to remove it and retape it to see if that fixes things.

meanwhile, after doing a little filming I noticed the hydraulic tank was overflowing!

So, I had three problems I can confirm at this time:

1. The contact block was worn and needed to be replaced (hence my having to move the head to get hydraulics working)
2.  The vented filler cap on the Hydraulic tank appears to be at least partially blocked.
3.  There is a link in the fittings on the side support cylinder.

Interesting...more to come (but don;'t be shy!  Let me know what you think?).

[doc henderson]

watch to see if bubble come out of the hydraulic tank as it over flows, or if then the level is lower (should be if it is leaking).  bubbles or air coming into the tank on the return will displace volume and take a bit to float to the top in a more viscous fluid, than say water.  If so them you are flushing, or returning air from the system.  the volume of air in the fluid and make the fluid at the top run out.  I though I saw a "pop" of some air in one video.

with it overflowing, and if there is a foam filter in the vent cap that got full of oil and then dirt, it may require some solvent to clean it.  

[MattM]

Definitely charge the battery fully.... It's been well drained, having a 10 amp charger on it will not even account for 10% of the power your using and those hydraulic pumps draw mega power. 

With the load of the pump if you run the hydraulics without the engine running you draw a little over 110amps and if you are loading the pump up (using a function after the cylinder stops moving) you are drawing 200amps. Even with the engine running full throttle you use more than then alternator will put out. 

Have you compleltly drained the battery? Once? Twice? X amount of times? If so it's total capacity might be reduced and a load test might be in order.

You should definitely get those leaks fixes before going any further with troubleshooting. What type of fitting is leaking? Pipe thread? Or JIC? If pipethread then go ahead and reseal it. If JIC just tighten it. If a jic leaks and won't stop leaking when you tighten it DO NOT put tape on it(I've see people online put thread tape on tapered fittings before) disconnect the line and wipe the inside of the female fitting with a rag and the outside of the male. If there is any dirt between the tapered mating surface it can cause a leak. If it still leaks after all that then it might have a hairline crack in it.... Rare but it does happen from time to time.

[OlJarhead]

Thanks guys -- I went ahead and ran it down to the hydraulics shop out of frustration ;)

What the guy there told me was that the leak wouldn't cause much of an issue other than leaking oil and lowering levels.

He said and I quote "It sounds to me like something is starting to fail however it could be simple things like the cap being plugged as that can cause over pressure which we heard some release of when you removed it.  There is also a pressure relief valve that could be faulty, you could have a plugged screen at the pick up for the pump and any number of other issues.  Without pulling it apart and inspecting everything, I can't really say but it's a good quality unit and that is good!".

In the end they would charge me $105/hr to remove, break down and inspect everything but couldn't begin to look at it for at least another week to week and a half.

We agreed that if I don't solve it by next Friday I'll bring it to them to solve.

The battery has been tested, twice, recently and is still in great shape.  It's also a Deka so a decent brand.  It wasn't dead but did drop to 12.3v so I decided it was time to put it on the charger for a while.

I'm going to order a new reservoir cap just to be sure it's a good one, charge the battery all the way up and put a maintainer on it for a while and then probably just take it in because I'm working 4 tens right now so too little time to do much with it on the weekends (and edit video, work around the house, do cabin stuff etc etc)....guess the job is good for one thing:  paying for mill repairs! ha!

OH and neither of us saw air bubbles in the system nor any jerky motions (which he said would happen if there were air in the system).  

[OlJarhead]

And in case you missed this one from earlier -- you can actually see me pull the head back at one point near the end when the hydraulics didn't work!
HISTORIC BLACK WALNUT on the SAWMILL!! [Woodmizer LT40] - YouTube

Also, note:  I waited for the head to STOP moving before running the hydraulics.  THis job is where they started getting really bad on day two (and I'd forgotten my cameras so only got some video of chainsaw milling on my phone that will be part of an up coming video) -- I HATE losing an entire days worth of video!  Luckily it was only a couple hours on the mill and the rest of the day was on the chainsaw so you didn't miss much lol

[OlJarhead]

And then I did this  ;D ;D


 Can you see it?

[barbender]

Did you add a bracket off the mast for a work light or something?

[Crusarius]

they really need to put breakaway outriggers on those things

[SawyerTed]

It won't tow good for a little while.  

[Magicman]

I can assure you that they will break away.  At least that is what a friend told me.  ;D

[OlJarhead]

I figured you'd think that was what I meant but no, the rear outrigger is down on purpose (because I lifted the head to attach a battery charger) but many might notice (after a second look) a rather shiny and bright fender :D  8)

[OlJarhead]

Did you add a bracket off the mast for a work light or something?

What you see there is my umbrella stand ;)  THat's been there a while, the umbrella, on the other hand, has been broken and needs replacing, again :P

[Magicman]

OK, I had that same "friend" that lost his fender.  It went under his tire @50mph and was seen flipping end over end 10' in the air.  "He" retrieved it and after much hammer/anvil work straightened it enough to fit back on the mill.  It is still being used....ugly but still being used. 

[Crusarius]

magicman, I mean a breakaway that does not cause damage

[Magicman]

I'd say that if the word "break" is used something ain't right.  :D

[OlJarhead]

Throw back Thursday?
https://youtu.be/2xOQWQCBOlA