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WM Diesel upgrade worth the cost??

Started by Luke_Eames, August 23, 2016, 11:54:04 AM

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Luke_Eames

We're looking at upgrading from our 95 LT40HD next spring to an LT50 and of course, I'm drolling over the new mills now.  ;D  When looking at the engine options, I leaning towards the 35.9 HP 3 cyl. Yanmar Diesel, but with the Kohler having the same HP, why not the gas engine and save the extra $2,500? And is the extra HP for the 47 HP 4 cyl. Yanmar Diesel  worth the extra 4k?  I know my gas engines but not so much of the diesel so any thoughts would be great!

Thanks!
Luke 
Wood Mizer LT-70 Super Wide
Wood Mizer EG200
Cat IT18

Percy

Diesel engines are more fuel efficient than gas engines and tend to be torquey-er, is that a word??heh. My first mill,1997 had a 35 hp gas engine. In 3000 hours of use, it went thru a fuel pump, carb kit, spark plugs, starters,Hall effect sensors for triggering spark. Etc. Burnt gas like a pig.  My second and current mill has a 42 hp kubota diesel. In  10,000 hours, it has only had a front crank seal go which I changed myself. It has eaten a few starters as well but that's more the sawdusts  fault than design. It burns half the fuel that my gas engine did. In my opinion it has saved me its initial cost difference several times over.
GOLDEN RULE : The guy with the gold, makes the rules.

ladylake

 
If you saw quite a bit get the Yanmar diesel, you'll save that $2500 in 2000 hours or in just fuel and if you were running a 25 to 28hp gas the Yanmar will saw twice as fast in wide cuts.  With my Isuzu diesel I've saved around $9000.00 in 6000 hours plus it cuts a lot faster than the 27hp Kohlor my mill came with.  I think 47hp is overkill for 1  1/4 bands.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

ozarkgem

check the net for engines. You should be able to pick up one for a lot less. There is a guy that sells low time Kubotas for around 1500 last time I looked. He is up around KC area. Check fleabay
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

Bandmill Bandit

I have been drooling too and it is a LT50 that has me drooling. I would definitely go with the yanmar 35HP diesel.

I have run a coupe of LT40 supers with 35 and 52 respectively and I really don't see where the big HP really improved anything but the fuel consumption

BUT when I compare feature for feature I think I would end up with and LT40 Super instead of the LT50. Just not enough productivity difference to justify the extra $$. AND when I look at it that way another 2000 on my mill and id have a full super anyway. 
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

ladylake


The LT50 has a chain turner and vertical log stops, both a big plus.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

4x4American

I still don't know why I didn't get a 50, the 40 super is so close in price last time I checked, maybe a difference of $2k...when you're spending that kind of money, it isn't that much of a difference and you might as well be happy with the purchase.  Besides, it will pay for itself, it's not like getting a fancy car or a boat that never makes you $.  These are $ making machines and they will pay for themselves so get what you want.  That being said, go diesel.  You change the oil less, you fill it up with fuel less, you work on it less, it will last 3x as long as a gas job, it's just better.  If a gas engine was better they'd be more expensive!  lol
Boy, back in my day..

bkaimwood

I asked the same question here about a year and a half ago...I was, for the most part, advised to buy as much as I could afford, and get the diesel...I did. The only regret I have is that I bothered to consider gas. More torque, unbelievable fuel mileage. My FF brothers told me the diesel engine option will pay for itself in fuel savings alone, not taking into account the added benefits...
bk

Bandmill Bandit

If the price is that close the 50 is worth it for sure. Not that it would get me a lot more BF But i really do like the chain tuner and the vertical side supports. and it would for sure get ordered with the wireless remote.
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

Ricker

I bought a lt40 gas new last year, I like it but after running a friends diesel for about 5mbf finishing up a job for him when he broke his ankle I wish I had bought the diesel upgrade.  More torque and fuel consumption are the things that got my attention.

Peter Drouin

A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

POSTON WIDEHEAD

The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

Bandmill Bandit

I always tease Garry at the dealer in BC that they didn't do their job when they sold me my LT40. if he would have set me up to do my training on a the LT40 super with the yanmar on it that is what I woulda gone home with I am sure.  But all thing considered at this point I still love my mill.

The extra torque would have been real handy cutting 3X12X12 spruce bull rails this weekend. Wide cuts is where you notice the difference in the "weight" the horses can pull.


Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

Brucer

To put it simply, diesels are better suited to portable sawmill applications than gas engines. Diesels have a better torque curve, so they don't bog down as easily when you encounter tough knots, increasingly wide cuts, etc.

Yanmar has been around for a long time and makes excellent diesel engines.

I didn't get one when I bought my last mill in 2006, and I've regretted that decision ever since.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

thecfarm

I always like to go bigger than what I need when I am looking. Than a year or 2 later,it's just what I needed. Hard to say what you will be sawing a few years down the road.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Luke_Eames

Thanks for all the responses.  We run the LT40 right now but mostly stationary work.  I talked with Wood Mizer over the weekend and they recommended the LT70 if I'm not going portable, but I'm a one man team and I don't think I'd be able to keep up with it!  :D   The main reason I'm leaning toward the 50 over the 40 super is the chain turner and the vertical side supports.  Plus I already have an older 40 so I need a bigger number  ;D 
Wood Mizer LT-70 Super Wide
Wood Mizer EG200
Cat IT18

Ohio_Bill

Luke, if you are stationary, have you considered an electric motor option?
Bill
USAF Veteran  C141 Loadmaster
LT 40 HDD42-RA   , Allis Chalmers I 500 Forklift , Allis Chalmers 840 Loader , International 4300 , Zetor 6245 Tractor – Loader ,Bob Cat 763 , Riehl Steel Edger

Luke_Eames

Quote from: Ohio_Bill on August 24, 2016, 08:14:45 AM
Luke, if you are stationary, have you considered an electric motor option?

Yea I have but with one small issue... I don't have electric in the barn.  Any type of electric I use is fed with a generator.  I'm about 450 feet off the road and running electric back there would cost about 15k....  But we're running out of room quickly and I've been considering moving the operation into our side field.  With that move, I'll cut the land off of our residence, zone it commercial, and get the electric lines run for free.  But converting a 10 acre field into a log and lumber yard wont be cheap so that's a little ways into the future.  :)

That's one of the reasons I ask about the diesel, my edger is gas, future edger will be gas, generator is gas, tractor is gas, so do I stick with a gas mill for ease of running the same fuel for all or upgrade to the diesel.  But it looks like we'll be going diesel.   
Wood Mizer LT-70 Super Wide
Wood Mizer EG200
Cat IT18

starmac

Just wondering, why is the future edger gas??
There are several ways to look at the diesels cost. Fact is they cost more initionally, but if a guy uses it much it pays for itself, and then it will probably pay for itself again if and when a guy sells it or trades abain.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Bandmill Bandit

from your comments it sounds like you are at the point where you need to make the commitment to convert your energy supply to diesel or electric. Postponing that evolutionary change in the growth of your operation is a costly decision in the long haul that you will pay for many times over in sticking to a gasoline policy for energy requirements. Diesel is the better choice and electric is the best choice(IF you can establish a reasonable infrastructure investment)

I have found that the conversion cost to diesel for me is only slightly less costly than going to electric on the property that I am looking to buy. But then the 3 phase service line is on the west property line.

In setting up a commercial home based "artisan" business I can qualify for a subsidy to get the 3 phase power installed by power company to disconnect/transfer switch for stand by generator connection and the junction box that I can connect any thing on the yard up too with out the power company doing the hookup beyond the junction box.
     
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

ladylake

 
Make sure to check out all of the cost for 3 phase, another mill that I saw for has 3 phase that has rather steep monthly charges weather they use it much or not.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Bandmill Bandit

Quote from: ladylake on August 24, 2016, 05:11:56 PM

Make sure to check out all of the cost for 3 phase, another mill that I saw for has 3 phase that has rather steep monthly charges weather they use it much or not.  Steve

Good good point and thanks for the heads up, Didn't think of that but I do have to convince the little lady that it is a worth while switch from a monster house in town to a 1200 sq ft (a 1/3 of the current home) bungalow in the country.
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

Magicman

Gas or Diesel?  No question that my vote goes for the Diesel.  The initial bite will be long forgotten with your fuel, longevity and service savings.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

YellowHammer

YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Brucer

Having learned my lesson with my sawmill, when I bought an edger it was a diesel (22HP Kubota).

When I was edging 1" material it was just coasting. Whenever I put a two-inch board through, the engine just dug in and started to work for a change. Didn't slow down at all.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

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