Value of timber in wetlands?

[JetMaxx]

I have an area of 4 acres of wetlands that I would like to cut.  Its densely wooded with primarily eastern hemlock, some spruce.  I know the wood is de-valued but by how much?  What will the harvester/buyer look for?

[markct]

alot will depend on weather or not you can even cut them legaly, theres so many laws on wetlands now days that alot of places wont even allow you to cut timber in wetlands, and many loggers have gotten in big trouble for driving equipment thru areas that are considered wetlands. i would ask around for someone more familuar with the local regulations there but i doubt if they are truely a wetland that anyone will touch it. now if they are a low wet area that dries up in summer then thats a different story, but if its wet year round then you wont have much luck probably

[JetMaxx]

good point, although if harvested in the winter with the wet area frozen, it would minimize/remove impact to the wetlands.  

it's a unique situation....the densely wooded area of wetlands is located between our prospective house lot and a beaver pond.  i want to thin the trees enough to get at least a partial view of the pond from our house and figured/hoped that i could have that part logged along with the 800' driveway and house lot all at the same time. some marketable timber there and elsewhere on our lot to make it worth the while of someone to go in and do the work.

[markct]

that may be so, but i know around here ya cant cut anything in a wetland without the proper permits, if ya can even get em, no matter what time of year it is, im not saying i agree with this, i just dont wanna see ya get in trouble with the gov. im sure someone else here will chime in about the subject of logging in wetlands, but i know around here it seems most true wetlands never realy freeze up all that deep since they are often fed by underground springs, i have seen machinery sunk in mud in swamps when everything else around seemed to be frozen solid. one other option to minimize impact depending on what kinda wetland we are talking about is to find someone who farms with oxen, they can do some amazing work and never get stuck

[Jeff]

Simply removing timber from a wetlands may destroy it, even if you cut it with lasers and removed it by balloon, removing timber can open it up to evaporation or other events you might not foresee. You need to be very careful when starting to develop a plan to harvest in wetlands, the fines can be more then considerable if you break any laws.  

Check with a county or extention forester, and your Natural Resources Office. Don't take for granted that its only a few acres, and that they don't matter, or no one will press it. I know of farmers that have got in big trouble for filling in depressions in fields that support seasonal wetland habitats.

As for the timber, its not nessesarilly devalued just because it is in a wetland. Depends on the species. Example, White Cedar. Wetland harvest costs may be more.

[JetMaxx]

thanks for the warning guys.  the possible legal ramifications will be something i'll look into closely.  

our driveway will cross some of the wetlands, for which we have the permit.  no cedar in that area, unfortunately.  just hemlock and spruce for the most part.  i was told that their growth in the wetlands devalued the wood.  is that not the case?  can't remember the exact reason i was given.  root depth maybe??  

[Ron Scott]

You would have to have a "very very good" market for the hemlock and other lowland speices to make it worth while for anyone to harvest the timber in the 4 acre wetland.

It might also do more damage to the area and landscape than desired even if all the necessary permits are issued to work in it.

[redpowerd]

there was a post here a while back about criteria for hemlock to develop excessive shake, but i didnt pay attention to what that criteria was. ive harvested hemlock in wet areas to see shake so bad it was allmost useless. the two may be totally unrelated.

i do know some of the bigger farmers in my area have obtained permits to clear wetland woodlots for tile drainage and cropland, and some of the areas cleared havent drained in two years! waste of resource comes to mind.

[Bill_G.]

In NH we can usually cut 50% of wood in wet area or more if the ground is just wet and not considered wetlands. The big thing is to not make mud, ruts or effect any water run off. As far as value goes when I clear a house lot I usually charge plus take the wood as salvage. There are exceptions if the timber value is such that it would cover the cost of clearing. The reason timber is paid for when doing a logging job and not when clearing is that when logging you are just cutting trees with value and when clearing a a house lot everything in the area has to be cut even all wood that has no value. I hope this is of some help.

[sprucebunny]

Bill G --Welcome to the Forestry Forum
Yes.. you can cut 50%..guidelines are available on line. Search for "NH Current Use" or some combination of 'logging + NH' or call your county extension forester.

[Frank_Pender]

YOu bet there could be some fall out due to harvesting in a classified wetland, even if the ground surrounding and at a higher level of 50 to 75 feet above a primary river.  I know a fellsa that went in and harvest 100 year old Douglas and Grand Fir to make the land produyctive for row and field crops.   He has already removed all of the stumps, etc and plance a crop.  If he sells the logs he is in line for at least a $35,000 + fine for doing so.  He has to take out a permit in order to market the logs, or he can donate them to a chariety without seeking a tax deduction or burn the logs.  There are at least 10 or 12 loads of logs ranging in size from 4-5' to 16" 20+ feet long.   His first choice at this time is to soak them with diesel and torch them.   Now, you must know this land os aboung some of the finest in the state , yet he would not have been able to remove the trees for the mill market.

[Buzz-sawyer]

Frank
So he legally cut the trees , but cannot use the trees or sell them to someone who can (assuming they were his trees on his property..but he can legally burn them?
Makes sense!?!?!?!?!?!?

[Frank_Pender]

No buzz.  He was to have contacted the forestry department if he was only  interested in selling them.  The real problem was removing them at all since there were located in a wetland classification even though there has been farming around and up against them for over a hundred years.  The farmed land adn the treed land has been in  one ownership for decades.  the real rub came when he did not contact the land use bureaucrats.   There could have been up to as many as 5 diffferent state and federal agencies involved.  He can use the trees for himself as firewood or have somone like me saw it up for him, but he could not sell the lumber, legally.  He would have to use the lumber for his own uses.  We have found a way for him to donate the logs to a non profit group and get out from under any more problems.  He has yet to decide what to do, to my knowledge.  

[Ron Scott]

One should check the National Wetlands Inventory map before planning  "or doing" a timber harvest in a wetlands area. Be cognizant of any soils classified as "hydric".

Your local Conservation District Office should have a copy of the National Wetlands Inventory map for information.

[Dana]

Ron or Jeff, Does this also pertain to Michigan to sort of degree? To my knowledge my county and township don't have any local laws concerning wetland timber harvest are we talking state and federal?

[SwampDonkey]

I was wondering how wet the 'wetland' area is. I only see hemlock growing outside the wet zone of wetlands here. I'll find it along the fringe of cedar stands or in hardwood ridges, but never hardly see a decent merchantable hemlock in wet soil. Hemlock like moist cool soils but not all that wet. I guess a person would have to see and assess the situation your talking about. I have a hunch the area you talking about is a dryer hillside leading down to that beaver pond. Be kinda wet for a house lot otherwise.

Wetland harvesting isn't prohibited here on private land, but it's coming. The problem here in my area will be enforcement.

[Ron Scott]

Dana,

Yes, State and Federal regulations under the Clean Waters Act. Enforcement is done by Michigan DEQ.