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Author Topic: Pressure Treated wood  (Read 11656 times)

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Offline DonT

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Pressure Treated wood
« on: April 25, 2002, 06:19:00 AM »
Good Morning, I just heard that the city of Ottawa has passed a resolution banning the use of pressure treated lumber in all new construction within the city limits.Is this something that is common elsewhere?I guess the price of cedar in the area just went up.  DonT

Offline DanG

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2002, 08:16:22 AM »
Funny thing about that. CCA treated wood is being banned, but is still required for certain parts of new construction, around here. Anybody know if they've come up with a substitute?

Speakin' of construction delimnas: My Brother's new house underwent "final" inspection this week. It flunked because he doesn't have a doorbell. Just why in blazes do they care whether he has a doorbell, or not!? ::)
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Offline Tom

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2002, 08:22:46 AM »
That's important to those city dwellers in town who make all the rules.  They want to know somebody is on the door stoop so they can use their peep hole in the door. (probably also required}

Visitors at our house can be seen coming down the driveway.  If the vehicle isn't recognized, my wife meets them with the shotgun.........before they leave the car.   I wonder if shotguns are necessary for final inspections here...hmmmm.....I'll have to check. ;D
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Offline DanG

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2002, 03:32:23 PM »
Bro' needs to put his on the gate, out by the road. No one can see his house except from the air, or by trespassing. He don't take real kindly to trespassers, neither. :o
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
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Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2002, 03:42:48 PM »
Is that Ottawa's reply to the timber tariff?  Or is there pressure treating plants in Canada?

They are replacing CCA wood with another type of treatment, which is more expensive.  The problem with treated wood is the addition of arsenic to the indoor environment.  With tighter houses, it could develop into a problem.

The advantage of having a long lane is no solicitors.  Our doorbell usually barks when there is someone at the door. :D
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Offline Kevin

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2002, 04:10:18 PM »
They made the snowmobile clubs rip out all the new pressure treated bridges they built over the river systems that their trails cross, probably hundreds across the province.
I don`t know about the rest of the country but Ontario has ruled that it's environmentally unfriendly.

Offline Tom

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2002, 04:52:54 PM »
 Ha haaaa, barking doorbells.  I love it.   That's what your brother-in-law needs, Dan, a barking doorbell. .....or maybe just a button.  Did the Stoop Gestapo say that it had to work?

Did you know that in our city/county you can be fined for not putting your lawnmower up when you get through with it?  The council has approved "yard police" and their job is to roam the neigborhood and write citations to anyone who they consider to have an unkept place. You would think that it would be for lots that were allowed to grow up, but, noo-o-o-o, they write citations for lawnmowers, cars parked in the yard, sofas on the porch, paint not sufficient, fence bent or broken, etc, etc.  And the judgement as to what's "out of line" is left up to the "yard police".

Kevin, you said  "
.....but Ontario has ruled that it's environmentally unfriendly. "

I haven't heard a thing down here of this new ruling of Ontario being environmentally unfriendly. It must be something they are keeping tight lipped about. :D :D :D :D :D :D ::) 8)

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Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2002, 05:50:58 PM »
Your yard police would have loved my lawnmowers.  I used to have goats.  Anywhere from 5-15.  Since I don't have any neighbors and goats are hard to keep in a fence, I just let them roam.  I still had to mow.

The only problem is that they don't know where the yard ends and the landscape begins.  They killed nearly every bush or tree we tried to plant.  They also would clean out the bird feeders when they walked past. :D

On the upside, they cleared an entire field of multiflora rose and any other type of bush.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Offline L. Wakefield

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2002, 05:53:12 PM »
   O my word- I am so glad my driveway is as long as it is.. 'unkempt-r-us' is the motto of my place. it's not long enough to satisfy the neighbors who have just left me a note about my own barking doorbells becoming a problem what with their habit of bringing home the neighbors trash to sort through for goodies- and crossing the road to do it.. I shall have to move deeper into the swamp..DanG doorbells have a taste for trash :(  lw
L. Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck Heretik, that refuses to stay between the lines when parking

Offline Kevin

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2002, 07:06:30 PM »

Offline Tom

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2002, 08:02:55 PM »
Hmmm, uh, what was I going to say? Oh, yeah, licking PTW.  I don't lick, uh, ......what was that? oh yeah, PTW.  I make toothpicks out of it.  Doesn't hurt me.   I been chewing it for years.   What was i saying?  Oh yeah, PTW , licking, uh, don't lick that stuff Kevin, I hear it affects your memory. :P

Not long ago there was a fellow that showed up on the forums that was adament about CCA not breaking loose from tne wood.  He said he used to sell it and gave seminars on its use.  One of the things he would do during the seminar would be to chew on a sliver of the wood.to prove it wouldn't hurt you.

It reminds me of a joke.

A newpaper reporter was in North Carolina to interview folks on their longivity because he had heard that North Carolinians lived a long time.

He found an old fella rocking on the front porch of his mountain cabin and asked him what he attributed his longivity too.

"I don't know, never gave it much thought", said the highlander.  "I eat lots of salt cured pork, sweet tea, smoke a box of cigars a week, smoke a pipe in town, smoke cigarettes at work, dip snuff, chew tobacco and don't let a day go by without a quart of liqour".  I been chasing women all my life and don't sleep more'n about 2 maybe 3 hours a night.

"My God !, Just how old are you", asked the reporter".

"Be, nineteen next month", said the hillbilly.

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Online Corley5

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2002, 08:13:29 PM »
Pressure treated wood makes me ill.  Just walking past it in Home Depot gives me a headache and nausea :o.  Actually working with it is almost impossible.  The facia on my house is pressure treated and just making a few cuts with the skilsaw about did me in :(.  Bad stuff.  I sure as h#*& wouldn't want a basement made with it.
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Offline woodman

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2002, 09:31:00 PM »
  So why do you need a door bell?  
Jim Cripanuk

Offline CHARLIE

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2002, 08:11:04 AM »
Woodman, the reason the city requires a doorbell on homes in DanG's brother's city is probably pretty simple.  You see, the DanG Chairman of the City Council owns stock in a DanG doorbell manufacturing company. †:oDonT ever think that DanG politicians do things that DonT benefit themselves first and the most.  :-/

It's gotten so that there are only about 2 honest businesses out there......Pro Wrestling and Roller Derby.....and I ain't so sure about Roller Derby anymore. ::)
Charlie
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Offline Frank_Pender

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2002, 08:25:12 AM »
I know this is off of the CCA issue.  My doorbell is a 200lb. St. Bernard.   Even the Cougars and elk stay out of the yeard when he is around. 8)  The only thing he cannot control are the frogs that hang around the pool and work very hard at keeping him awake at night.  In my county court house there is a flag in every dept. that says you must call before coming onto my place unless you are in "persute" of a fellon.   If they are an insp[ector for some reason they must make an appointment or have a court order to be here.  One inspector showed on a neighbors place for no major or minor reason and began going through their garage as the main big door was open.   The inspector ended on the floor, spread eagle waiting for a deputy come and get him.  They call him now, in advance.   ;)  One inspector was so concerned about coming on my place after I told him to get a court order, that he brought 3 deputies to watch me.  I just kept saying lumber after the court order ended in the sawdust pile and he went about his misguided business.   His behavior cost him his job, eventually. >:(  
Frank Pender

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2002, 11:08:11 AM »
Okay, I have a question about these environmental hazards.  I've seen a lot written about what they might cause.  But, every one of them have a laboratory where we can see what happens with mega-doses of the stuff.

How are workers effected by CCA?  This stuff is manufactured and used by people on a daily basis.  There exposure rate is a lot higher than the normal public.  If there is a problem, it should show up in the workers long before the general public.

I know asbestos had that problem, as well as coal dirt.  I remember how they said elector-magnetic fields (EMF) were supposed to be cancer causing.  But, I didn't know of a higher incidence of cancer among linemen.  

My wife's uncle died from brown lung disease.  Comes from working in a textile plant where there is a lot of cotton fibers floating in the air.  Maybe cotton clothing will be banned.
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Offline Tom

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2002, 12:00:48 PM »
Ron, I try to remember, when I hear of these alarms, that more and more people in our society are looking for a "cause".  It's the "correct" thing to do and allows the, otherwise, insignificant to exhibit control over those they have determined to be in power.  Because of this, we appear to be a nation of subserviant, minorities who are in a constant battle for survival.

We have tree sitters and resturant suers, building opponents, building proponents, water pollution factions, anti-fire groups, anti-arms groups, anti.....etc, etc,,..

There is a cause for everyone out there and a media network that will initiate and help the 'alarm' for the sake of market share.

I feel this has led to a failure of the population to retain it's independence and has caused us, as a society, to forget what "living" is all about.

Facts and figures of things like treated wood harming the invironment are generally not produced from valid facts resulting from long studies.  They seem to almost always be some "new found", "alarming", life threatening discovery.

My opinion is that life, in itself. is dangerous. Even locking ones self up in a closed room to escape the world, leads to lack of sunlight and muscle tone which will cause a shortened life.  

I don't eat CCA.  I use the recommended rules for handling it. Not being a chemist or a Forensics Dr., I have to depend on the word of people trained in determining the safety of these products.  Asbestos was a good thing until it was discovered to be a bad thing. Perhaps CCA and existing treated building products will follow suite; but until those we have put into position to determine its safety make a decision, I favor my judgement about its effect on my body over the "alarmist joiners of causes."  In a milder way perhaps, I feel that many of these "alarmists" are doing the same thing as yelling "fire" in a theater.

I don't saw treated wood on my sawmill because it "may" affect my health and there are other, and better, ways of obtaining treated wood for projects.(ie. treat what is sawed)
These are my rules for my own well being.  If I use a treated product I use it as regulated.  When the proper authorities determine it is hazardous I will quit using it but I fear that these authorities are driven by fringe groups who are looking for utopia, many of whom don't consider the human race a critical  part of the "existance" equation.





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Offline DonT

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2002, 03:16:28 PM »
We do not have doorbell police in my municipality yet,we do have weed cops,the weed cops circle the country side looking for overgrown fields filled with weeds.They then have the weeds erradicated and send the bill to the landowner.  DonT

Offline DanG

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2002, 10:17:26 PM »
When I lived in town, I was on the "Weed Cop Hot-List."  I also got nailed by the "Dog-Doo Detectives" once. This was complements of a neighbor who sent his own dog outside of his fenced yard, to do his business.

Where I live, now, I'm known to the unknowns as, "That crazy old bastard with the gun."  This notoriety has been carefully cultivated, by Yours Truly, and seems to be working well. My favorite perch, at night, is anywhere that is not under a roof. Sometimes, I can be found sitting out in the moonlight, at the strangest of hours. If anyone should be so foolish as to drive too slowly by my place, they will get a Q-Beam in their mirror till they're out of sight. I'm gonna make a sign that says, "Forget the dog, BEWARE OF THE OWNER!"
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Offline Frank_Pender

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2002, 06:37:59 AM »
DanG , if I am not just like you. 8)  As the meanest teacher in the county, it has carried over to the Tree Farm, too.  ;)  Sometimes in the Summer I just carry my sidearm around to help remind some. :P
Frank Pender

Offline Tom

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2002, 01:40:33 PM »
I think this is hilarious.  Neighbors know me but those who haven't taken the time think I'm the crazy old white headed guy back in the swamp.  My "planned" activity has been to, occassionaly, but fairly frequently, go out on the property somewhere, night or day, (I favor night) and run around yelling and screaming at the top of my lungs like I'm chasing someone,  and shoot the 12 guage a couple of times. Sound carries pretty good after the sun goes down and and when I do this, the Boom Boxes up in the trailer court all shut down.
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Offline Kevin

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2002, 02:14:12 PM »
Tom,
I hate to be the one to tell you this but you are the crazy old white headed guy back in the swamp.

Offline Tom

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2002, 02:35:29 PM »
My reputation precedes me.  I'm even known in Canada now Yee Hi-i--i---i :D
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Offline J_T

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2002, 04:15:13 PM »
 I hate those boom boxes too. Sane man around here .I use a mac 90 !!!
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Online Corley5

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2002, 07:38:54 PM »
Mini-14 Ranch with forty round mags 8).  The house infection that sprung up next to me is also on the verge of having a hog barn to look at and smell ;D.  Don't get on the bad side of the crazy farmer next door :o.  The little land pimp already has.  Just one more time and his resale value goes down the crapper :D :D ;D 8)
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Offline J_T

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2002, 09:00:38 PM »
Corley how them neighbors like to hear that circle saw? Hope mine like mine when I get it running! So far my nosey neighbors have sent EPA Health Dept.more than once to my private junk yard. Now DOT it is time to sell and start my mill.
Jim Holloway

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2002, 10:05:56 AM »
I don't have a spot that is flat enough to set up the mill for Land Pimp's hearing pleasure ;D.  But if I did I sure would and I'd pick up an 8V71 Detroit for power, and let it breath through straight pipes pointed his way 8).  Hogs on the other hand don't take up space and by Michigan's Right to Farm Act it is my constitutional right to practice whatever form of agriculture I so desire.  According to the Act I can run 750 hogs without any special permits ;D and there's nothing anyone can do about it.  The neighbor and me got off on the wrong foot right away.  The ten acres next to me I had tried to buy in the past and he snuck in and bought it.  He's a real estate agent and he has also tried to by every other piece in the section.  Not by asking but by telling the owners what their land is worth and what he is going to pay and that they are going to sell to him.  He hasn't had much luck with his approach.  His father who owns the real estate co. did manage to buy a 50 that borders on our land so now we share a 3/8 mile fence line.  They also tried to buy my Grandmother's land that borders me on two sides but when she told them who her Grandson was and that someday the land would be mine they got back in their truck and left without so much as a thank you.  He's a wanna be developer who also isn't too bright.  O.K. rant off but that's the basic story.    
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Offline swampwhiteoak

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2002, 11:22:36 AM »
Unfortunately I now live in town around a bunch of folks I don't care to converse with too much.  I find that packing my SKS or HK-91 back and forth to my truck with the clip inserted (usually not loaded) keeps them from complaining about anything.  Whether or not they know anything about guns it sure does look "scary". ;D

Offline woodmills1

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2002, 05:56:52 PM »
we have a 7:30 am majic noice ordinance hour.  I try to start something at 7:31 so my neighbor can enjoy it.  For easter I started the bull dozer and parked it at the set back line.  he didn't like me  before i moved here. :D
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Offline Frank_Pender

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2002, 08:12:53 PM »
Woodmills 1,  I start the D 5 just for the fun too, for some neighbors.  ;) Ain't it fun? 8) 8) 8)
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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2002, 09:12:43 PM »
It is fun to annoy the S.O.Bs ;D but it would be more fun if they'd all just go away
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Offline splinters

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2002, 06:04:08 AM »
It sounds like it's the same most everywhere. When I moved here 30 yrs ago there was one neighbor I could see and two I could hear. Now I'm over run. Wouldn't mind so much but they are most all city people who move to the country then want it to be like the city. 'Course the dogs have to run loose -its not fair to confine them. The 4-wheelers and snow sleds run all over everything 'cause its all public land isn't it? And everyone likes the music that they like. The rest are the trash that has been run out of somewhere else and moves in the neighborhood with a condemed trailer, junk cars, garbage, kids, and anything else and in a month turn an acre of woods into a landfill.   By the way, them loose runnin' dogs seem to disappear a lot.

Offline L. Wakefield

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #32 on: April 29, 2002, 07:57:57 AM »
   I've been sitting back and pondering my reactions to this thread, because I was very surprised at what I was hearing. I had thought I had a good sense of the individuals on this board, and they seemed like neighborly types. But what I'm hearing is the type of thing that would not make me a bit happy to have in a neighbor.

  For what it's worth(and I am sure it will make me very unpopular), I believe that you have to lead by example. if you don't like what your neighbors are doing, you are making a poor showing by doing anything that you wouldn't like have done to you. Would you like YOUR neighbor to run around in the dark screaming and discharging firearms, especially if it was with the specific intent of disquieting and disturbing you? I am accustomed to considering that 'disturbing the peace'.

  Would you like YOUR neighbor to take the biggest piece of equipment they had and deliberately fire it up at the earliest time they could legally, for the specific purpose of disquieting you and- 'disturbing the peace'?

  In my neighborhood, the only people openly carrying firearms are those with business to do with firearms- that is, the cops. I have no idea who is carrying a concealed firearm.

  At least in West Virginia, if one neighbor killed another neighbor's dog, he'd find himself in court. There are more open and above-board ways of dealing with this type of problem.

  I have lived in the country all my life- and my dogs have always run free. This is not a 'city person' attitude. It IS a desire that has to be tempered by the consequences of the action.

  The solution to irritations and conflict is not revenge. That is the type of hateful behavior that, if magnified, leads to all the ethnic conflicts we are seeing all over the world.

  As our national agenda has turned toward the combatting of terrorism, I have often thought that the only way to truly judge whether someone is a terrorist or not (other than detecting a 'smoking gun' in their hand)- is to see into their heart. Only God- and the individual him or herself- can do that. It's called judgment day by some. God knows I can't do it.

  But if you are standing over your neighbor's dog with a smoking gun in your hand and the pup is lying there dead- or if you ran the dog over, or poisoned it, or trapped it- rather than using legal means of confrontation or talking to the neighbor about the problem- what choice have you made? Is it 'fun'? Are you happy? Have you made peace? What is in your heart? What is the next step in the interaction likely to be?

  Sometimes there is no power to make peace. But I run on rescue calls to many homes the like of which you are openly condemning and boasting of practicing methods to irritate, annoy, intimidate, and destroy. They are frequently poor as churchmice and very aware of being on the underside. Some of their housekeeping standards are lamentable (but so are mine..)

  You do not help them OR YOURSELVES when you practice as you all have been boasting. I realize that if you are dealing with shifty human predators who are frankly nasty and not interested in making peace themselves, but rather trying to defraud you- you have a problem. But I would propose
that being above-board in your dealings with this problem- as much as you do in your business world- is going to leave you with your feet planted on firmer ground if you do have to proceed to legal action- and more peace in your heart. The judge will view your case much differently if you come in with methodical documentation of your neighbor's infringements and your peaceable responses and efforts to resolve the difficulty- as opposed to your neighbor lodging a countersuit for destruction of property and disturbing the peace.

  I'll get down off my soapbox now... :-[    lw
 
L. Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck Heretik, that refuses to stay between the lines when parking

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #33 on: April 29, 2002, 09:05:55 AM »
Louise,
You can stand on your soapbox anytime and as long as you like, I do.  It's not a bad thing to disagree with the things people do nor to try "get along" with your neighbor.  I'll have to say that one must look at the whole picture to understand another's ire.  

There is an old saying "when in Rome do as the Romans", which I interpret as meaning don't change the society you move into because it's not like the one that you moved from and because you aren't used to it.

I have been a good neighbor.  I have visited and helped new people get their feet on the ground in an area where it takes heavy equipment and late hours.  I have done favors by pushing my schedule aside while the people I did the favors for continued with their "work schedule.  I have cleared house sites, dug stumps, built roads, dug ditches, sawed lumber for cost or free and have found that the new neighbors figure that's why I am here.  I only see someone when they want something.  That makes me angry.  It makes me doubly angry when I ask for help and am told that "perhaps they could offer me a couple of hours next Tuesday afternoon'.  A lot of good that does when I need it now.

That's the mentality of the "new" folks moving out of the town that they overbuilt, ruined and are leaving.  Now they will do the same here.

We were never bothered with trespass, vandalism, threats of law suit, racing automobiles, automatic weapons fire, drug traffic and trash up and down the road until this influx of the new society.

I have equipment pilfered, batteries and fuel stolen, tools taken, hunting trespass, waterfront vandalism, mail boxes smashed and dodge young girls in little foreign cars who have a death wish.  They pass on double yellow lines, speed and seem to think that drafting under the back of my truck is a cool thing to do.

To house the transient trash, a trailer court was set up and now we have a constant influx of police who are settling arguments, trying to get drunks back into their trailers or shutting down Boom Boxes that reverberate through the woods all night long.

You can no longer burn a stump, cut a tree or dig a hole within eyesight of the hard road or one of these new control freaks will call the police and the fire department.  They fight over two inches of land that a fence may be on and have brought that unfriendly, sour attitude with them from the Yuppie neighborhood they left.

Yes I shoot a shotgun and yell to make them aware of my existence.  They shoot their automatic weapons into the woods and don't give it a second thought that people live back here.  They poach by night with lights and have no qualms about shooting down your driveway.

I put a twenty-six year old thief in the state prison several years ago who was burglarizing my barn.  Held him and his sixteen year old nephew at gun point for forty-five minutes while we awaited policeman.

These woods are filling up with inconsiderate, non-neighborly individuals who think that the first thing one must do when they buy five acres is get five or ten dogs, five horses and start breeding cats.  The only animals they control are the horses and they are fenced in a pasture with no grass.

I had the State Forestry Service do a control burn on the front of my place in anticipation of planting and my "neighbor" threatened to sue me and the Forestry Service for endangering peoples lives with an open fire.  This guy should have stayed in town.

Now I need burning done and can't hire a State qualified burner because they are afraid of litigation.

I don't want these new people on my place nor anywhere around me.  If their thinking, that I'm a crazy old coot back here in the woods, will keep them off of my place, then I will perpetuate the tale. My "Real" neighbors know me for what I am.
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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #34 on: April 29, 2002, 09:18:40 AM »
 I couldn't agree more with L.W. This thread has really surprised me as well.

We ALL need to live by the golden rule.

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Offline L. Wakefield

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #35 on: April 29, 2002, 11:14:22 AM »
   Tom, I KNOW you are a good neighbor- I can tell that from several thousand miles away- :D -and it sounds like you do have a lot of problems.

  OTOH- I know here it's nothing new to have mailboxes smashed- that's a multi-generational thing here (no, I never did it- too skeered of the consequences..)- and racing autos have also been a tradition since there WERE autos (the drag strip on the Clark's Mills Rd is a multi-generation thing as well.

  The 2 things that you are burdened with that seem like the most intolerable and threatening are the drug trafficking and automatic weapons fire. And I hadn't reailized that said neighbors were already discharging firearms at will and at night down your driveway. Those types need to be brought to justice. I sympathize and indeed fear for your safety. But Hatfields and McCoys action (also an ingrained southern tradition) just isn't going to help. Godamighty, that's exactly what is tearing the world apart today.

  We need to change. If we don't, we will destroy ourselves.  :-/  lw
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Offline Bibbyman

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #36 on: April 29, 2002, 11:43:34 AM »
I guess I'm a bit conflicted about the whole issue.  I rank private property ownership rights equal along with all the other sadly eroding freedoms.  The right to own land was a driving incentive for our ancestors to leave Europe in the first place.  On one hand, all the new population of what was farm country disturbs me deeply.  On the other hand,  I'm strongly against many of the regulations we now have and those I see coming in the future.

I think we are going to be in big trouble when there are more voters without property than there are with property.  It would be real easy to escalate the dissolving of private property ownership - at least as we know it by regulating its use until you're only paying the property tax and insurance and have no real say over it's use.

When my dad's family moved to this county back in the late 1930s, most of the farms were from say 120 acres to a couple of thousand acres each.  In the ten miles to town there were no more than ten farmhouses passed along the way and maybe twice that many somewhere off the road out of sight.  Now there are thousands of homes.  As each farm changes hands, it is broken up in to lots of 5-10 acres.  Then the lots are broken up.  Some of the explosion was self inflicted by farmers breaking up the their farm for their children who have in turn broke their parcel up for their children to have a place for a home.

There are still some area farmers that want to sell their property to someone that will not break it up.  But the prices for the land are so high you could not possibly return its value on the land itself - i.e. farm or timber, etc.  All will eventually be broken in to smaller lots.

Mary and I have talked about selling out and moving someplace where there is more room and fewer people.  But this is my family farm and we can't find another place that doesn't already have the problems described in these posts.  So we'll try to tolerate our new neighbors the best we can.  
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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #37 on: April 29, 2002, 01:09:51 PM »
LW, I think you misunderstood the gist of what we were saying. I, like Tom, am kind and friendly to my neighbors. The problems I am trying to avoid are from "people" who roam the countryside, looking for easy places to aquire items, "at the right price."  There is a new kick in our area, now. They seem to think it is harder to track them if they burn a house or car, after they have burglarized it.  All of these hoodlums are armed, and would not hesitate to kill, if someone surprised them in the act. My practices merely let it be known that someone who is armed may be watching at any time.
As far as the dogs are concerned, ALL 9 of mine are(were) strays that either wandered onto my place, or were dropped off as unwanted puppies. They get cared for as well as we can without putting ourselves in the poor house, and good homes are found for many. The others stay here as long as they live, which may be a long time if they don't kill my chickens.  Dogs who kill livestock are not tolerated for a moment, by me or my neighbors. I told all of them that if they see one of my dogs attacking livestock, they can either shoot it, or tell me, and I will.
Perhaps you have been fortunate enough to live in places that don't have these problems, but if you'd like a little adventure in your life, come on down and I'll introduce you to some "colorful" characters that'll just make your day. :)
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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #38 on: April 29, 2002, 03:04:12 PM »
I too have been watching this thread and keeping my mouth shut. In fact, at the Timbermens convention I steered clear of the forum because of this thread and the one that had snow blowing out the guys rear.  I knew enough to not take them out of context but I was afraid that a new visitor might, and get a very wrong impression.  I almost posted here yesterday, I wrote the words "You guys are scaring me", but then deleted it. The more I re-read these posts the more I know that we are all a lot a like, but not by just reading these, but by knowing all the other things that have been written by each of you on the forum.

I will not comment on individual things said in this thread, because its insignificant to the whole. What I will do is make a few statements of my own.

I can shoot a dog that is chasing down a whitetail deer and never have a twinge of guilt. I can also hold a sick puppy and not keep my eyes clear.

I will help a new neighbor all weekend on a deck with no thought of repayment, but never contact a friend of 20 years again because he talked down to my son.

I have not been to a church service in 10 years but when I found out a dear friends cancer had returned I closed my eyes and prayed out loud.

If something or someone touches me I try to hide the fact that I am wiping my eyes.

I will tell the 19 year old daredevil on the motorcycle endangering the neighbor kids that if he does not slow down, I won't call the cops I'll just kick his ass myself and he knows I mean it, but then use my talent for painting to help him camoflage his deer blind the next day.


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Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #39 on: April 29, 2002, 05:12:53 PM »
I feel really fortunate.  I have a 12 acre parcel in the middle of a light industrial zone.  I'm 1 mile from town, but I can't see it.  I am 1/4 mile off of a 4 lane highway.  And when they take the census, I am the only home in this district.

My neighbors are the city water authority, who bought a farm and let it grow up.  Another neighbor is a packaging plant, which is now bankrupt.  The only active neighbor is a plant that puts beds on trucks.  They only deliver trucks a few times a day, so there isn't a whole lot of traffic.

The downside is there is a little more litter and everything is fenced in, but it could of been houses.  But, my livestock and pets and kids can roam wherever they want, within reason, and nobody minds.

My motto has always been if you don't bother me, I won't bother you.  If you need something, just ask.  It seems to work pretty well in my area.  

I did have a few problems with dirt bikes.  A guy figured he could just drive through my yard.  On his return trip, I tore out of my garage in 4 wheel drive.  I had the guy pinned against a fence.  I'm not sure if he ever got the brown stain out of his underwear.   :D  He never came back.

I've been shot at a couple of times.  When you hear the bullet buzz, you know it's close.  These weren't on purpose, but ignorant gun owners.

I've been robbed a couple of times.  I figure it's a small price to pay not to have any neighbors.  Now that the fences are up, that's stopped too.

In some of the small towns in our area, there have been problems with guns and drugs.  The local police couldn't do much about it.  So, some of the people have called in someone to clean up the town.

The favorites have been motorcycle gangs.  They seal the town off, then go about taking the guns and drugs off the kids.  No one lifts a finger to object and no one calls the cops.  They also tell them that if it happens again, they'll be back.  Works like a charm.   ;D
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Offline Kevin

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #40 on: April 29, 2002, 05:13:36 PM »
      
   
     Can I say something ?


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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #41 on: April 29, 2002, 06:17:51 PM »
Feel free, just yell across the border ;)
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Offline Kevin

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #42 on: April 29, 2002, 06:51:26 PM »
Lets put the blame on the crazy old white headed guy back in the swamp and make an example out of him.   :D


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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #43 on: April 29, 2002, 07:46:03 PM »
You mean this guy?



(Sorry Tom, I snapped this one one the night you were running around in the dark chasing your neighbors cat with a badmitten racket and a salt shaker)
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Offline Kevin

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #44 on: April 29, 2002, 07:48:02 PM »
Man is he toasted!

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #45 on: April 29, 2002, 09:20:00 PM »
Tom,  I couldn't agree with you more.  I've done much for my REAL neighbors and they've done the same for me.  I've plowed gardens, cleared drives of snow, cut firewood, helped with buildings, baled hay etc.  What really started the feud with my new neighbor was the fact that I wouldn't let him tap into my power line for nothing.  I paid $2,700.00 to have power ran up here and when I told him he could have power for $1,350.00 he got mad and stormed away.  Oh well.  Cost him way more than that to have his own put in.  He started the indiscriminate shooting with his semi auto pistol.  Target practice is one thing but just unloading as fast as possible over and over doesn't make sense and it DOES annoy me.  His shooting has stopped since I took to shooting my 12 ga late at night.  The fact that as a real estate agent he planned to turn the whole neighborhood from rural farmland into a subdivision doesn't sit well with any one of my REAL neighbors.  He is threatening our way of life.  Some of this is my own fault.  I should have pursued more vigorously the purchase of the ten that he bought and I shouldn't have built my house as close to property line as I did.  I had two hundred acres on which to chose a building site and I screwed up.  I've always wished I'd put a basement under the place and may very well move it further "inland" and set it on a basement.  I can get away.  He's got no where to run to get away from the hog barn
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Offline Frank_Pender

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #46 on: April 29, 2002, 10:02:24 PM »
It sure  paid to be the meanest teacher in this county, for me over the last 30 plus years.  I love young poeple and supported they and their parents to the point of almost getting myself removed from the profession more than once in that time.   For me it was what was the right thing to do and correct for the betterment of our community.  I guess that is why I still have no problems on my place.  When I say it I mean it.  Both the parents and students have learned that about me.  My oldest students are now 45 years old and the youngest 15.  Thirty years and 3000 kids.  A reputation is a tough issue to deal with and sometimes separate yourself from.    Even the Sheriffs offices calls to get permission to come on my place.  That is respect.  I in turn do and have returned such to them.  Some have been my students as well as parents.  We both have learned where the line is located.  I have had only one theft on this place in 22 years and all three have served their time in the pen for taking without permisson.  One, even saw me in a grocery store a few years ago and ran out the backdoor, thinking I had come after him.  He knew he had ripped me off and was afraid to face reality, even after he had served his time.  For each action there is a response and consequence.  On this farm that is the way it is at this time and until they plant me alongside my Firs.   ;)
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Offline Tom

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #47 on: April 30, 2002, 07:12:29 AM »
Well, I guess nonconfrontational confrontations are best.  When you can't come face to face with the problem, facing the symptom has some self gratification.

It takes more than just living next to someone to make you a neighbor.  I'll have to admit that I am a little disillusioned and disappointed in the relationships that have developed (or not) around here,  but it's still my little piece of ground.

That picture of the wild, crazy, white haired, pinochio looking guy up above is sure scarey.  I think I'd stay as far away from him as I could, if I were you. Don't let him convince you he's the doorbell inspector.
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Offline splinters

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #48 on: April 30, 2002, 08:21:29 AM »
Along with the idea that if we are just a little more kinder and understanding everything will be better. Most of us back in the woods tried that once. Thats why we are back in the woods. My Yuppie neighbor built on three acres. Then fenced the whole thing. Didn't want us hicks on HIS property you see. Everything else is public or no one owns it. He wants me to stop cutting and burning wood. His kids may get hurt playing in my woods and the smoke smells up his air.  Almost every state has game related leash laws. Most of us on this forum understand that and control our animals. If you ask a new arrival about their dog you find out that it would never join a pack or chase anything. Even though it's outside all day when the owners are at work.  
This whole thread is indicative of the state of what America [all of it] has become. The people with no clue about life or living among others, who think that if they want it they should have it. Against us trying to maintain our values and lifestyle. We respect property lines and privacy. If we start early or work late its because we have to.  And in the middle are the well intentioned who say any conflict is our fault.  Remember that we've been here. Nobody bought a lot in a subdivision to start up a sawmill or farm. Nobody wants what they find objectionable in their back yard so why would anyone buy a backyard already containing something objectionable.

Offline Bibbyman

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #49 on: April 30, 2002, 12:36:42 PM »
Both Mary and my families are totally rural in background.  Mary's sister and husband have a small horse ranch near us.  Their next door neighbors also have a good size parcel of land and run some cattle but moved to the farm from the city.  They trade help, equipment, etc., as good farm neighbors often do.  But when the neighbor's wife complains about being late because she got behind a combine on the county road,  my sister-in-law has a swift, no mercy comeback;  "If you don't like it, move back to town."  When her neighbor got up a petition to have a low-water crossing replaced buy a bridge and asked my sister-in-law to sign it, she got the same answer.  (The little stream only runs when there is a heavy rain and is impassable only maybe a couple of hours total in a year.  A simple bridge would probably cost a million bucks because of all the environmental BS that has to go along with the construction of it.)

My sister-in-law's comments; "They move here from the city to get away from it then they want to bring in their sidewalks, backyard fences, streetlights, trash service, public water, fire protection, ambulance district, etc.. Then they complain about the horse manure composting next to their neighbor's barn,  the row of broken down farm machinery on the back forty, noise of you sighting in your deer rifle and the howling coon dogs, and the dust raised from cuttin' beans.  Then they want pass planning and zoning and make rules that will only impose upon the rural activity so they can enjoy life like in the city."
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Offline Frank_Pender

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #50 on: April 30, 2002, 07:32:30 PM »
I ave mine    now, and no one else can have any, kind of thinking, Bibbyman.  I know that kind of thinking from city folk.  I have served 4 years on my county planning commission and "herd" it all.
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Offline splinters

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #51 on: May 01, 2002, 05:40:22 AM »
Frank, from the stories of land use in the N. West, Planning board must have been an absolute joy.  I have experience on a Zoning board of appeals.  Which brings up another thought.
Perhaps instead of just hiding in the woods, we should try to make ourselves electable or find a like thinker who is electable and try to take back the local governments. Put some sanity back.

Offline L. Wakefield

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #52 on: May 01, 2002, 02:40:29 PM »
   Now that sounds like an effective method. There is strength in numbers as well. Landowner's alliances may seem a lot like a 'city' organization, but provides a tool for group consensus and expression. We have SWOAM and SAM. Positive social pressure for sane goals is a powerful tool. And if one side doesn't get in there, the 'other' side will.

  There is a lot to be said for isolation in terms of peace and quiet, and not everyone is a joiner or a politician. BUT- some of the worse types of activity you have been talking about have been totally illegal, underhanded, or just a 'white-trash' type of behavior that is not likely compatible with the person even caring to vote, let alone become active in politics.  lw
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Offline Kevin

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #53 on: May 01, 2002, 03:49:58 PM »
We don`t have any problems up here, if you look at Jeff's Canadian map you'll see my nearest neighbor.

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #54 on: May 01, 2002, 08:27:47 PM »
Okay, someone explain to me how,or why this thread went where it did.I thought I was asking a pretty simple question.DonT

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #55 on: May 01, 2002, 08:41:07 PM »
Welcome to the forestry forum. ;)

Just cause you take a certain path into the forest does not mean you gotta use it to come out.

Sometimes you get turned around in there, wander around for days, and eventually Ron Scott comes in and saves your butt.
Just call me the midget doctor.
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Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life.
Ezekiel 22:30

Offline J_T

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #56 on: May 01, 2002, 09:13:55 PM »
My neighborhood has been a lot quiter since last fall.The folks that were playing the boombox a half a mile away had a large party in the fall and were out in the feild out back cutting doughnuts and fliped their truck and killed a boy. Even though I called the law many tines to them I would still of took my wrecker and trider to of helped if I had been called.We are 2000 foot from Tennessee in 3 miles on the state line rhoad you cross4 different county lines the closest law is 26 miles. No one else would call the law as they were afraid of these people!! They would turn up their boom box wait10 minuits turn it doun to see if the law would show up. So when my wondows would start to shake at 10 at night it was easer to put 20 rounds in one of my own junk cars! Lots of people around here have had things stolen thus far I have had no problem. My keys are in my trucks my garage is open all any freind need do is take what they need and leave a note. I have come home before to find some one in my drive using my tire changer and wheel balancer. If some one is nice to me I try to out nice them . I let others make the rules they want to be treated by . Hey Tom move on down here!!!
Jim Holloway

Offline Frank_Pender

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #57 on: May 01, 2002, 11:03:13 PM »
Well,  Splinters, tht is how I got on the board in the first place.  We had the only elelcted County Planning Commission in the state.   Then I went up against the state Land Use "people" and they brough pressure on a county commissioner and he found a way to do away with the elected board throught a "loop hole".  We all refused to play the game and a couple of commissioners and the state folds were trying to dictate to use.   The last night of the elected board (I had been chair that year) I told the planning director and everyone else in the room to call first or I would turn the "dog" on them if they showed on the place.   Someone in the audience asked how large of a dog I had and I said he wieghed inat about 185lbs. and not to bring a lunch as he would have that for disert.  I got a standing ovation and I adjourned the meeting. ;)
Frank Pender

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #58 on: May 02, 2002, 06:13:48 AM »
I understand the frustration, Frank.  The last ZBA meeting I attended it was suggested very strongly by the appointed planning folks that we should approve a variande to allow a good friend to build below the high water line of a flood prone creek. This was a state and federal no build zone.  Must be my replacement saw no problem 'cause the area is full of houses. That need to be rescued every time the water rises. Now there is a call for flood control.  
My daughter says that the problem is not stupidity, but wrong beliefs.  People believe that
(1) food comes from a grocery store. farms are involved somehow but not important.
(2) Water comes from a faucet
(3) Poop disapears forever down a hole.
(4) Garbage disapears into a truck.
(5) Lumber comes from Lowes and the Depot
(6) Blacktop and concrete comes from trucks
(7) People who make their living by mostly using a computer are actually producing something

Offline Bibbyman

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #59 on: May 02, 2002, 06:34:17 AM »
Add to that list:  

(8.) that the police will come and protect you and your family if your house is being broken into at 2:00am in the morning.
(9.) we need another government program to fix any problem we may have.
(10.) a tax refund is free money given to us by the government.
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Sawing since '94

Offline Tom

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Re: Pressure Treated wood
« Reply #60 on: June 13, 2002, 08:52:46 PM »
I started looking at Google to find something on pressure treated wood.  I know the EPA has decided that we shouldn't use CCA and has mandated that it be taken off of the shelf but all the info I have heard was second hand from other folks.  So, I typed CCA in Google and was amazed to find that I would have to wade through so many uses of the acronym looking for my target.

Canadian Construction Association, Centre Canadien d'Architecture
Coastal Conservation Association, Career College Association
Certified Crop Adviser, Car Club of America
Common Component Architecture, Canadian Cat Association
Canadian Curling Association, Canadian Council of Archives
Computer Corporation of America, Community College of Aurora
Christianson Capital Advisors, Cyber Cat Association
Canadian Center for Architecture, computability and Complexity in Analysis
Colon Cancer Alliance, Canadian Communication Association
Corrections Corporation of America
........whew!

Then, about five pages down I found the first occurance of CCA as I know it, chromated copper arsenate.
http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/citizens/1file.htm

After all the talk I've heard about leaching of Arsenic into the ground, I find it interesting that the EPA, according to this report, is withdrawing CCA "just because" (if I may paraphrase).  

It is an interesting report, but, if you don't want to read it, the gist of my "just because" comment comes from this quote from the article.
"Although the Agency has not concluded that there is unreasonable risk to the public from these products, we do believe that any reduction in exposure to arsenic is desirable.
extinct


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