Tree cutting

[CCC4]

+1 barbender! ...unless yer cutting with one of those dealys in yer profile pic!  :D

[Ryan D]

RasorbackQ, I'm not working down your way at the moment but I would happily come out and give you a few pointers next time I am in the area.

[thenorthman]

I do realize the possibility of the danger in a hung up tree.  30 trees hung up is not that bad  as they are no trees near the next hung up one.   My land has 100s of hung up blow half overs by nature. If I had a tractor with winch some could be retrieved  with the 165' of cable . As of now we log with atv and log arch. Like others on here might take a hurricane to free the leaners. I don't know how a professional sawyer can drop a tree if the woods are just to thick other then planning a fall by cutting other trees before.

Well the real pros dump a whole bunch of trees everyday. sometimes 100's in a day.  Toss that many on a daily basis you get to learn allot in just one day.

I'm not that cool...

The biggest trick to getting them on the ground is to learn to directionally fall em.  That involves reading the tree both head lean, side lean, and limb weight. Then placing your under cuts and back cuts properly, there are many tricks for steering trees...

Also planning out your lay, that is planning which trees to cut where they are going to go and in what order, not just saying well gosh I guess I will take that one there.

Many times to fall tree A trees B C and D have to go first.  Yes that means taking more trees then you would like at times, but it also means coming home safe.

[rasorbackQ]

RasorbackQ, I'm not working down your way at the moment but I would happily come out and give you a few pointers next time I am in the area.

Will take you up on that one Ryan.

[rasorbackQ]

Still no pics as its still pouring outside.

[enigmaT120]

How big are the trees you're cutting?  In my pre-commercial thinning that I've been doing I have a lot of trees hang up.  I use my Logrite Jr. Arch most of the time, to pick up the tree and drag the but the opposite direction I want the tree to fall.  My trees are too small to use wedges. 

[rasorbackQ]

Trees are 30- 60 ' tall with 12-16 butts. Poplar and spruce were the latest hang ups. I might be able to get to the butts with an atv with some work. Still raining here  Hope to get out for some pics this week .

[mesquite buckeye]

Lots of times those pole stands are fairly interlocked until you get them opened up. If you pull them make sure your chain or cable is a lot longer than the tree is tall. I've got a dent in my head from doing otherwise.

[John Mc]

I was with a group of 8 or so people who spent a full day with a Game of Logging instructor intentionally hanging up trees, and then figuring out how to get them down without any special equipment other than our chainsaws, wedges, and the occasional pole we cut for one use or another.  We did have one advantage that none of the trees we were cutting had much in the way of timber value.  They were all destined to become firewood eventually, so we had more options in how and where to cut them than we would have if we were trying to preserve a good saw log.

The day was a lot of fun, and quite an education.

[Wash. Tinner]

Nobody has suggested a "Humbolt" face cut. Basically it a upside down normal face cut and allows the tree to have more distance to fall before pivoting off the stump. This might give the tree the momentum it needs to get to the ground. We use this all the time in  the thick PNW forests and you don't waste that wood of the normal face cut in trim.

[John Mc]

As dense as the forest in his description was, I'm guessing the trees are hanging up before the notches are closing all the way...

[Ianab]

That's what I was thinking. Smaller trees, densely growing, and interlocking branches. With larger trees you can try and build up some momentum so they can "Crash" though nearby branches etc. But smaller trees, they don't have that weight or the space to build up momentum.

Hence the advice to set a rope and practice your directional felling. With that rope set (and even just a hand winch) you can persuade the tree to fall in the best direction, even if that's against it's natural lean, and you have the rope up in the top of the tree so you can change angles to give it some more persuasion if it does get stuck. Because you set the rope BEFORE you cut the tree it's all relatively safe, you shouldn't have to get into the danger area under a hung tree.

You don't need to rope every tree, just any one that you aren't sure of.

Ian

[clww]

Very good points, Ian. I've recently finished clearing out the trees for the power lines to run up to our cabin. I've got to say the larger the tree, the easier it was to get onto the ground. Speed and momentum are absolutely necessary when dropping trees that will be making contact with other trees on their way down.

[ancjr]

Seen my fair share of 30ft poles spaced 3ft apart.  The good thing about those springy poles that get hung up, I've not even used a winch / come-a-long.  You can use a really long rope - long enough that the tree or branches have no possible way to fall on you, longer than the tree is tall - and then repeatedly pull on the rope at the "natural frequency" of the pole.  You can work magic - like bouncing them right out of being stuck tight in crotches of other trees - using this technique and some practice.

[rasorbackQ]

 Was out to get some pics yesterday but they don't show anything that can be viewed or recognized .  Good to see that  few others are on my side ref the trees  are very difficult to fall in thick stands.
Was talking with my neighbor and he says I am lucky to have only 30 trees hung up and not 100. Trees were not meant to fall in the forest. I will look into the Humbolt face cut and I have purchased a few plastic wedges . Now to see if I carry them in with me  is another story.

[beenthere]

We are mainly concerned about your safety, and not "taking sides" ;)

Having a tree hung up is very understandable, but leaving a tree hung up is less understandable from a safety point of view (that being your safety and others who may be about).

So it is up to you and your comfort zone.

But if me, I'd figure out a way to cut the tree and get it down, rather than all the work to cut a tree and leave it standing or leaning -- as it is a bit of work for no gain.

For me, if the tree is free from the stump (leaning but the hinge is cut through), then (if I don't have a rope or cable up in the tree to pull) I will hook the tractor to the butt and pull it away from the stump until the tree drops. A few of the 10-15" dbh ash that I cut will be so tall and will only drop about 10 - 15 deg, so get the butt-pull treatment.



  
Hung ash tree


  
Chain wrap for pull


 
Down on the ground

[thenorthman]

Was out to get some pics yesterday but they don't show anything that can be viewed or recognized .  Good to see that  few others are on my side ref the trees  are very difficult to fall in thick stands.
Was talking with my neighbor and he says I am lucky to have only 30 trees hung up and not 100. Trees were not meant to fall in the forest. I will look into the Humbolt face cut and I have purchased a few plastic wedges . Now to see if I carry them in with me  is another story.

You should never try to fall any tree without at least 2 wedges on hand, preferably in your back pockets, and get your self some kind of beating tool, 3-5 pound axe, or some guys use a sledge hammer (which I find weird).  More wedges means you can get one or two started and then stack two or three and really push a tree away from its natural lean.  One wedge can push a 100' tree 6-8' or more at the top, two stacked up will go farther.  Just remember to make level back cuts, slopping back cuts are a very bad thing.  The trick to a wedge is to get them to "lift" the tree using hold/hinge wood as a fulcrum.  Stuff your wedge in as soon as you have an inch or two the stick it in the back cut, this will prevent the tree from sitting back and therefore making it a real nightmare to get a wedge in at all...

Some folks will say they have never needed a wedge... I don't know how they get away with it... they also come in real handy when bucking up a heavily loaded log...

As far a Humboldt cut goes, just make your sloping side of the notch (commonly referred to as the "face") on the bottom side the level side being on the top. and then your back cut being level or just a bit higher then the level cut on the face.  The benefit of using the humboldt in a thinning situation is that the the undercut being on the stump acts as a wheel chock preventing the tree from slipping back and coming after the faller (you).  Also a benefit on steep ground when falling timber up hill.

A couple of books you should find,
The Back Yard Lumber Jack. a story publication

D Douglas Dent. Professional Timber Falling.

As far a the GOL classes, I'm not a fan... but for the average home owner they could be an eye opening experience.

[thenorthman]

here is a little spruce stump with a humboldt in it... 40" Dia... the picture has a wierd skew to it...

 

[plaindriver]

First off, I am somewhat of a neophyte at this. This is what I do on my property.
We (just wife & I) have downed over a hundred trees since last Sept. Most have atleast 15" thick trunks, say 3' above grade. Many 100' tall anyways. Mostly white, red, or scarlet oak, and a few maples as well.

With a 24' ext ladder maxed out, I climb up and with a 10' PVC pipe, with a notch in the top, I reach as high as I can to push the cable lasso up, then have the wife tug on the cable to tighten it up. Cable is a  1/4" steel, about 1500# rating, with plastic cover. Usually get the cable around 33' hi.


 


 


 


  

 

Then I stretch the cable and take up the slack.


 
Next, I cut the wedge out of the front of tree, then stretch the cable till the tree bows a bit. (Note: the cable is longer than the tree is high)


 

Then make the back cut and down it goes.


 

Then, with my helper, we cut up the good stuff,  and burn & or chip the rest.

 

[John Mc]

... I have purchased a few plastic wedges . Now to see if I carry them in with me  is another story.

you can get a holster to carry your wedges in.  Mine rides on a webbing belt along with a small first aid pack, and a "Top Saw" chainsaw multitool. Search Bailey's (a forum sponsor) for wedge pouch, and you'll find a couple of options.  I got the leather one, since it can carry a 12" wedge.  The nylon pouches are also nice, but don't work so well for wedges over 10" long.

[Ianab]

Next, I cut the wedge out of the front of tree, then stretch the cable till the tree bows a bit. (Note: the cable is longer than the tree is high)

Good illustration of what to do. If you don't have a tractor, then a portable winch anchored to a stump works too.

Only suggestion I have is that you don't pre-load the rope. This puts tension on the tree, and makes it possible to barber chair the thing. A small load isn't an issue, but if you tension it too much it can split the log before you complete the back cut.

I have used pretty much the same method, but I only take out the slack in the rope. Once the back cut is complete then I shut off the saw, get clear and signal my helper to pull. Or walk around a safe path to the winch or tractor and haul it down myself.

Not a big change in technique, but you have more control.

If you only suspect the tree will hang or sit back then there may be no need to position the tractor / winch. Just lay the cable out to a safe distance. Just make sure it's safe to get to the winching location and hook it up if the tree does hang up.

This will save you a few minutes per tree if only 1 in 10 actually need winching.

Plastic felling wedges are a great tool. Learn to use them. usually they are enough to fully control the direction of a tree's fall. But if you have a serious back lean or intertwined branches they may not be enough. Often we will set a cable, but use wedges anyway (quicker). If the wedges don't get it moving, then plan B is already in place.

Ian

[CCC4]

Humbolt face... high stump in 1st vid due to fence...Zero fiber should have been pulled in 2nd vid, however I detected a void and fiber was pulled in the void, log was butted off 4ft+ due to rot anyway so no big deal, normally I pull zero fiber.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K77sVxUBnIY&list=UU_NjqCPS3PCA_PGz4NCZuLA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn7e7FAX5NU&list=UU_NjqCPS3PCA_PGz4NCZuLA

[WDH]

Sweetgum  :-\.

[CCC4]

Sweetgum  :-\.

Vid #1 tupelo      Vid #2 sweet gum. Same deep hollar.

[thenorthman]

this is all good stuff, especially the bit about not putting much tension before you cut...

Climbing trees with ladders is always a bit spooky to me, just be real sure about it s stability, personally I prefer a belt and spurs.  at least then you won't tip over sideways, just do a back flip and have to wait for the fire department to cut you out :D

They also make a rope puller thing that works like a comelong... can't remember the name... what you can do there is tie your rope up in the tree, run it through a snatch block in the appropriate direction. then hook up the come-a-long to the stump of the tree your working on.  Make your cuts and then just lean over and start cranking on the handle when she start to go RUN LIKE THE WIND... that way you can work more less alone, or at least not put anyone else on danger, and you won't have to leave a crippled tree and go climp in a tractor or wrestle with a motor...