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Too late now as we've all had at least our first shot of Pfizer, but curious about people's experiences.  I went back to read the Just the Facts, Crown Virus thread but not everyone said what shot they got, so I thought we might try a little poll.  You can vote up to two selections to log your first and second shot reactions.

Feel free to elaborate on your post if I didn't cover your specific experience.

Looks like the poll is working.  I got both Pfizer shots with no side effects.  I'm Type O neg blood type, if that makes a difference.  My two kids got their first shots with no side effects.  They are both type O, one + and one -.

I had the JJ shot, no problems at all. Arm did hurt for maybe an hour, but that was it. So far no blood clots.  :o  ::) I have bad lungs so that is really why I got the shot. Will let you know in 10 years how the shot really works. Not saying nothing bad, but no one knows for sure about all this. Both the covid and the shots.

I had the Moderna, some discomfort in my arm a day or two later and felt a little fatigue but that was it.

I'm fairly young and in good physical shape.   1st Moderna shot was just a sore arm.  The next shot i was fine until a day later.  Was working in the shop and felt dizzy and light headed, so went home.   Got the chills and then a good fever.   Woke up next day and all was gone except for a headache.   What a weird experience.  

I guess it's a sign of a good immune system and having a memory to attack other spike type proteins...which covid is.

I got the Pfizer shot, sore arm for a couple days but no other side effects. Second one might have been a little less sore than the first but neither one was much more than annoying.

I got the Pfizer vaccine, first shot arm was a little tender for about a day and a half, same results with the second shot, 3 weeks later!

nice tally.  remember the headache, muscle aches, tired feeling, sore arm, fever, are the mild good side effects.  pulmonary embolism, anaphylaxis and death are the serious ones.   :)

I am going to keep an eye on this . I have not had the shot's. I am in Ontario,lots of C19 here but 2 hrs away from me. We live in a very secluded location and we practise good protocol even when we are at the shop. 
Canada has also chosen to give 1 shot and then wait 4 months for the booster shot which I am not in favour of, so we will wait untill we can the shots based on the manufactures guidlines. Something along the lines of taking antibiotics, take it all untill it is finnished .

Pfizer.  First shot sore arm a couple  weeks,  1 day of chills and  tiredness,  headaches on and off for 2 weeks. Second shot almost 3 days of chills, fever, tiredness, headaches, and a sore arm. Then my joints were extremely  achy for about a week after that. Felt  like when I had lyme. Everything is fine  now. My wife  only  had a sore arm for a couple days from both shots.

Moderns here for the family.  No issues other than a sore spot from round 1.  For round 2, my daughter (20) got pretty ill about 2 hours after the shot.  She was sick for about 10 hours and bounced right back.  My wife felt crappy for a couple of days.  I was fine on day one following the shot, but felt a bit sluggish on day 2.  I think I dehydrated myself a bit working following the shot, so that may have been the bigger issue for me.

Wud

 Rita has had both shots of Pfizer, and she not happy with the outcome. She got the sore arm for a day with both jabs, but didn't get the headache, chills, fever or tiredness. Said that she was told if you get these you would know that the vaccine was working. She still thinks I got a mild case of the virus in Nov 2019. I had gone to HD to get a piece of 1/4" plywood and worked with a guy to cut it in 1/2. I've been wearing a mask since 2016 when going to town but I got a case of bronchitis anyways, that she thinks was c19.

I had my shots of Pfizer back in January and February.  I got a fairly bad headache the night after first shot and minor headache the day after my second shot.  I was happy to see some affect to know it was working, but was happy to not have side affects that would have sidelined me.  My wife had her shots before me and I think all she had was some tiredness.

Do any of you get the surveys from CDC about side affects of the shots?  For a while it was every day, then it was once a week.  I assumed they were done asking me how I was doing, but then yesterday I got a survey after months without one.  Just asked how I felt in general and if I felt less healthy, same or more healthy than I did before the shots.

remember the placebo effect.  we are all hearing about the side effects, and that enhances the placebo side effects.  18% of people who got a shot of salt water as a control, also had a headache.  Ed. I think you wife is just tougher than the rest of us.  The pre-covid "covid" cases are unlikely, as their should of been a huge outbreak surrounding those cases as we took no precautions.  we did not yet know.  the original cases when it started were contact traced.  You would of had a visit from guys in black SUVs.  carry on.

Quote from: firefighter ontheside on May 05, 2021, 08:41:49 AM
Do any of you get the surveys from CDC about side affects of the shots?   .

Not yet.

Quote from: thecfarm on May 05, 2021, 09:40:30 PM

Quote from: firefighter ontheside on May 05, 2021, 08:41:49 AM
Do any of you get the surveys from CDC about side affects of the shots?   .

Not yet.

If you did not sign up for it right away, I don't think you'll get it.  

First shot - sore arm, second shot - sore arm, a bit tired. I did however, feel an overwhelming urge to restart, in order to install updates. 

Quote from: Stephen1 on May 04, 2021, 11:33:47 AM
I am going to keep an eye on this . I have not had the shot's. I am in Ontario,lots of C19 here but 2 hrs away from me. We live in a very secluded location and we practise good protocol even when we are at the shop.
Canada has also chosen to give 1 shot and then wait 4 months for the booster shot which I am not in favour of, so we will wait untill we can the shots based on the manufactures guidlines. Something along the lines of taking antibiotics, take it all untill it is finnished .

Same here, I take my own measures with keeping safe, I’m not even going to get the shot unless something unforeseen changes. The city 2 hours away is ravaged from covid but over the last year there has only been a handful of cases out here. And I only really am in danger of getting covid once a week if that, I hardly go into town. Just seems unnecessary for me. Just don’t make sense to me for me to inject some foreign substance into me when I most likely won’t ever come into contact with the covid anyway, and if I did I am healthy and 99%_+ survival rate for
My age group.

Surveys used to come once a week, now just once in awhile .Got 2nd Pfizer 2nd week to March .

A long time customer, seemingly healthy just got the Moderna vacc and 12 hours later died of an apparent cardiac arrest

not sure how it is there, but here there would be a post mortem exam with an explanation.  keep us in the loop if you find out more.  we should not assume it was from the shot, but I am sure it is being looked into.  with millions getting vaccinated, what are the odds someone could die just after the shot?  low but with that many given, it could be coincidental and unrelated.  or it could be from the shot combined with an unknown underlying condition.  or an unknown side effect of the vaccine.  even if it causes death at one in a million, it is safer than the disease.  it will be good to know the true cause.

12 hours later he's room temperature.
My friend John was in here this morning and his friends in Vancouver, husband and wife both got their shots together two weeks ago and she had a stroke and is fighting for her life. Again could be coincidence.

Covid and it's cure both seem to be hard on those with underlying conditions,hopefully they can screen those at risk .

We just had one of our vendors here today doing some decals on one of our firetrucks.  He is also a fulltime firefighter at a different department.  In February he had Covid and spent a long time in the hospital.  He still has not returned back to work as a firefighter.  He has 50% diminished lung capacity as a side affect from covid.  Did he survive?  Yes.  Has he recovered?  No.  He may never.  He was a healthy, non smoker man about 40 I'd say.  He had no known comorbidities.  

The old saying six of one half dozen of another comes to mind

Any of us that have been around for a bunch of years and that's most of us should be able to remember seemingly healthy people that died for what seemed like no reason. I'm talking before covid you'd hear of heart attacks, annurisms, etc killing someone in their 20s, 30s, 40s that was slim, athletic, non smoker/drinker and peoples nature is to "blame" it on something they did, well now those deaths are blamed on either covid or the vaccine when it was just going to happen anyway. That's my opinion and if you are looking for an excuse to do or not to do the vaccine it's easy either way.

Quote from: Stephen1 on May 04, 2021, 11:33:47 AM
 Something along the lines of taking antibiotics, take it all untill it is finnished .

Funny thing Stephen, my wife recently needed an antibiotic.  The pharmacist told her to take it until she felt better then one more day and stop.   That sounded strange to us so she calls her doc's office and the nurse said that now they have reversed that and say the reason antibiotics don't work as well as they once did is because we DID all continue them until done and all this time and all these years they told us to make sure and finish them. Now they say that was wrong.   
I don't know what to think, I'm a logger not a medical professional. Who knows?

Quote from: gspren on May 08, 2021, 02:01:00 PM
I'm talking before covid you'd hear of heart attacks, annurisms, etc killing someone in their 20s, 30s, 40s that was slim, athletic, non smoker/drinker and peoples nature is to "blame" it on something they did, well now those deaths are blamed on either covid or the vaccine when it was just going to happen anyway. That's my opinion and if you are looking for an excuse to do or not to do the vaccine it's easy either way.

That's the way I see it too, covid deaths and vaccine deaths or injury should both be reported without bias. To say they were going to die anyway on one can be applied to the other. Whether it's the flu, covid, a experimental vaccine , nature or a freak accident that takes us we need to continue living. 

Got two pfizer shots and had minimal side effects, mainly just a sore arm from the shot which wore off the next day, and minor fatigue which was remedied by lots of power naps  :D I'm young and healthy so I've never been super worried about getting COVID myself. That being said, I am around a lot of immunocompromised people and older folk, especially in this field, and thought it would be in my best interest to lessen the risk and the spread as much as I can besides following public guidelines 

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Sailor Mars!

Where abouts, NY is pretty big!

My daughter Monique, 22 y/o, healthy, just got the Moderna at Walmart.  My wife is working and said they had some to use up.  We got to leave a little early.  I sure would not have my daughter do it if I thought is was unsafe.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51041/646E4D33-320F-42A8-86FE-843FEA49B2C8.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1620590503)
 

Quote from: Chuck White on May 09, 2021, 03:39:35 PM
Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Sailor Mars!

Where abouts, NY is pretty big!

Thank you!
I'm from Brooklyn (NYC), but currently at school up in Wanakena for Forest Technology (graduating this week, super excited). I'm headed back to Syracuse for a degree in Natural Resources Management and to cruise timber this summer. I'm pretty sure I've driven by Russell a couple times!

Quote from: Sailor Mars on May 09, 2021, 03:27:12 PM
Got two pfizer shots and had minimal side effects, mainly just a sore arm from the shot which wore off the next day, and minor fatigue which was remedied by lots of power naps  :D I'm young and healthy so I've never been super worried about getting COVID myself. That being said, I am around a lot of immunocompromised people and older folk, especially in this field, and thought it would be in my best interest to lessen the risk and the spread as much as I can besides following public guidelines

thinking about other people is an honorable trait, and welcome to the forum.

Quote from: Sailor Mars on May 09, 2021, 06:18:16 PM

Quote from: Chuck White on May 09, 2021, 03:39:35 PM
Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Sailor Mars!

Where abouts, NY is pretty big!

Thank you!
I'm from Brooklyn (NYC), but currently at school up in Wanakena for Forest Technology (graduating this week, super excited). I'm headed back to Syracuse for a degree in Natural Resources Management and to cruise timber this summer. I'm pretty sure I've driven by Russell a couple times!

Russell is about 15 miles south of Canton and about 130 miles North of Syracuse.
As you likely know, Canton is a 2-college town, SUNY & St Lawrence University!
Over the many years, I've been by Wanakena quite a few times!
Good luck in your ventures!

My almost 14 year old should have his first shot by end of next week I hope.  Even if its available to him this week, we will hold off due to his upcoming soccer tourney next weekend.  Don't want him with side effects while playing.

4 weeks and the arm is still sore. ::)

 I had the Moderna vaccine and had very sore arm after each shot. After the second , just very mild symptoms . My wife and 30 year old son both had the same shots. They both had sore arms after first shot but suffered from chill and fever for a day plus after the second shots. After that  , no problems.

Got the JNJ 6 weeks ago. Nothin' - not even a sore arm. But a bad poke, hematoma around the injection. Must have hit a vessel. Wondering if I got a placebo. Giving blood next week. We'll see if I have antibodies.

my daughter got Moderna a week or so ago and has had no symptoms.

I'm holding off till they come out and tell us how often people are going to have to get booster shots.  I've read six months, Ive read four months.   They aint saying yet.

My Doc told has told me to wait till mid Oct. to get my flu shot every year so that it is still working through Mar. when flu season pretty much ends.   Get it to early and its not working in Mar.

I'm figuring the covid shots will be similar. But since there is no covid season it may mean two covid shots every year.  Or three.

Think people will will be willing to keep that up?  

Got my second Moderna shot Sunday, no ill effects, arm just a little tight yesterday morning gone by noon.

I have not seen any real reports that a booster would be given within 4 months.  I have seen that they are likely to recommend a booster at the year mark, but maybe sooner as more data is collected.

the trouble is the antibodies drop off but much of the immunity is cellular and not as easily measured.  prob. will have to keep track of folks who do not get the booster and see if and when they get the disease.

Not going to get the #3 shot.  5 weeks today and my arm are still sore. If I take a deep breath I can feel the top half of my arm sorer from the shot.
Not good working a sawmill with one bad arm.  ::)

Peter, sorry to hear you are having a hard time with the shot.

I'm waiting back to hear from my doctor, there is a few ingredients in the Pfizer/Moderna that they use to create cancer/tumors in animals.  She's looking out for my best interest but it seems a lot of Doctors are just going with the flow.

https://www.cancer.gov/publications/dictionaries/cancer-terms/def/n-butyl-n-4-hydroxybutyl-nitrosamine

Is one of the concerned ingredients and hoping to understand more about it.

No issues last night after getting jabbed yesterday afternoon. Lindy says her arm is a little sore but I have nothing at all so far. We did take some ibuprofen last night as a hedge just in case.

Bannerd, I do not have first hand knowledge of this Chemical.  many things are used in research, but in high concentration can be harmful.  it is prob. a preservative or stabilizer, and used in many other immunizations.  They patterned these shots after other well know common immunizations.  Peter I hope it feels better soon.  The local arm pain is likely from the physical shot, and not specific to the immunization.  Did the pain start soon after the shot, or take a few weeks?  they might want to do an US and make sure you do not have a sterile abscess from the injection.  may have landed near a nerve ect. ect.  If there are side effects from this vaccine, many will be discovered down the road.  we really do not know.  just like all the long term effects of the disease, will take "long term" follow up.  

thanks for the info doc. You're a man I can believe in. I'm going in for my a1c and will tell the doc about it too.
See what happens and go from there.
I hope all is well with you.

doing well, and appreciate the comments.  we docs have all sorta drank the kool-aid and been scientifically brainwashed, but we still try to do what is best. :)

Big industry,science and government is always a winning combo.

Uses of Asbestos: Examples from the 50s and 60s - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmFzv8sp_eQ)

I have a book from the '60s or '70s where the author talks about not being able to license his smoke house yet as he has not installed his asbestos boards... 

Same book written today would talk about having to remove the stuff before it could be licensed. 

Also still have the USDA recommend guidelines for how much broiler litter (poop) to mix into your cow food ration. 
 
Mad cow disease put a stop to that practice. 

This is a cool one from the late 1940's


DDT so safe you can eat it 1947 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtcXXbuR244)

Remember, Anna Nicole married for love...and a little Thalidomide will cure mother's morning sickness...

I shook hands with a thalidomide victim a few years ago at the shop here. He parked across the road in a motorhome and bought some oil. His hands were coming out his shoulder. We are about the same age but our lives were very different :-\

My thoughts on this vaccine?  I won't be getting it.  I've got a form of muscular dystrophy that literally was obscure, to non existent prior to the early 2000's; now it's one of the most wide spread.  Why?  The AMA threw myself in a giant box with several diseases.  I go into the doc shops here, and there looking for help; the only thing they offer are degenerative medicine aids; such as splints, walkers, and wheelchairs.

To keep going, I was going to have my lower spine fused, they refused, and stated my entire spine had to have rods top to bottom; that was 6 years ago now, the doc kindly told me when I declined that she'd see me in less than 2 years for the procedure.  Not once in what felt like the 'used car salesman parade of differing medical options', did one recommend a chiropractor.  I was getting to where i couldn't walk.. So on a whim, went to a chiro.  Today, while I have balance issues which makes clearing my property interesting to say the least with a chainsaw, I can do it for a few days at a time.  Not one doc recommended a chiro; interesting, no?!

On from that, my 'dystrophy' did kick in a little while after some childhood inoculations; coincidence?  The doctors say so.  I guess just bad genetics; along with other diseases like autism that are on the rise..... I've read where in New Jersey, the autism rate is less than 1 in 40, or less now, but nothing to see, right?

So onto illness.  Modern man sits indoors all day, they're not getting natural vitamin D from the Sun like they used.  We aren't getting a lot of natural nutrition we once got.  Our food is commercially farmed, and thus takes a lot of chemicals, and additives to keep whatever growing, and growing big for market.  You really are what you eat; you eat commercialized crap, and you become that same thing; you will need 'extras' to keep you alive; how many people aren't on one prescribed pill or another?

Now, it's literally illegal to mention proactive treatments from disease, or illness of covid.  Why is that? and why is the only allowed option several different vaccines we casually refer to 'the single vaccine'?  It's was, and still is listed as 'experimental'; yet I see people talking up how great it is, and they've lasted a few months without side effects???! "Okay".  My dad, he died of Mesothelioma.  It was a horrible disease, and the amount of pain was intense.  The kind he had, the treatment was to remove his entrails, completely, and fill that cavity with chemo; this 'miracle' cure, more so something like a maccobb seen in a horror story offered him '6 more months' of pain.  He declined that treatment, and lasted 2 years.  My point?  The doctors told him he was crazy, they went as far as telling him without it, he'd be dead in 2 weeks; 'thanks for the great psychological conditioning' there boys!

So what is Meso??? It's from Asbestos, the wonder product for decades in America; used widely, and approved.  The kids over in Libby, Montana, would play in the tailing piles, it was used in gardens as an aerator, spread on the baseball fields, and more.  My main point, like many substances it was officially 'great'.  Don't even get me started on Agent Orange, DDT use in clearing land, and their derivatives.  There are other examples of numerous products; hence consumer product injury law. 

But have trust in the govt, right?!  Sure, that worked for the Tuskegee airmen, the Indians with small pox blankets, and many more examples.  Then you've got the PCR tests used to diagnose.  Since the vaccine, they've changed up the test, the cycles they're now using, are more in line with actual testing; prior the cycles were so high, the test was inaccurate, hence why there are stories of people testing positive, then negative, and so forth in super short order.  Have trust in the vaccine manufacturers, and good hearted promoters then, right?!  I watched a video of Bill Gates himself bragging about one of the best investments he's found is in the vaccine manufacturing industry; he said it was a 20 fold return.  The vaccine(s) manufacturers have already made billions from Covid vaccine(s), and have immunity, impunity by law regarding this current vaccine(s) side effects.  Trust in profit, I guess; while they label terminal cancer patients, and people hit by buses as covid deaths... makes sense, I must be crazy to think of that stuff; after all, most of my family has had the differing jabs. 

One, the morning of the 2nd jab, had a brain bleed within a couple hours of returning home, found in a pool of drying blood the next evening, and died the following Saturday, but 'not related'.  My partner's grandma?  She was one of those who you could walk away from the phone for hours while she continued to talk, today after both jabs, she cannot talk for more than 15 minutes, and is pooping blood.  She called my partner in fear after jab 1, and isn't the type to feed into hysteria, or conspiracy, as she doesn't even pay attention, but she called due to her doctor telling her she was having 'anxiety' due to the hysteria of the vax; which she knew nothing of.  Her bleeding was, and is blamed on ulcers, which haven't happened before. 

I hope all is well with this stuff, but for those encouraging others, to 'come on in, the water is great', without knowing what's in the proverbial water, our history in the 20th century alone is loaded with examples that long term didn't go well.  Here's another example, they used to give shoe stores xray machines to make sure the shoes fit properly.... Well that went over very well, until the salesmen kept coming down with cancer, and dying.

On that note, all others in my family that have taken the vax, are doing fine, only the 2 with issues.  Take it for what you will.  As for me, I'm out in the country, and not around too many folks.  I guess  each person is in their own unique situation.  Good luck to you all, and I think in these times we all need to include each other, and the world in our prayers.

I'm gonna stay out of these threads, they don't do anything for me, I have faith, and freedom, over fear, and compliance. I've really enjoyed reading the forestry adventures, and projects of the members here, it's been invaluable to me, and helped me avoid mistakes, while also accomplishing some neat stuff; thanks guys.

I'm glad you shared.
The young man that has worked here since he was 14 lost his Dad 4 months ago to Mesothelioma from exposure in the early 1960's .He was an avid outdoorsman,pilot and full time feller of trees.
I hate also that any questions we have about the virus and it's cures are quickly silenced. What is science if it can't be checked or questioned?

Quote from: Paul_H on May 21, 2021, 03:36:16 PMI hate also that any questions we have about the virus and it's cures are quickly silenced. What is science if it can't be checked or questioned?

I haven't found that so much. But "Just asking a question here... " is often a lead in to a conspiracy theory. "Ohh, so you don't actually know how long the vaccine immunity lasts for... You must be making up the whole thing then!!!"

When in fact NO ONE actually knows for sure. Scientists expect the vaccine will probably lose effect over time. But is that 10 months or 10 years? No one knows for sure, so naturally you can't get a straight answer to what seems like a sensible question. 

People like getting a straight answer to a question of course, and when there isn't one, then they are left wondering. 

Wasn't talking about here.
If I can't answer a question I say I don't know.
When I have a business idea I take it to an accountant and he presents the good the bad and the ugly then I decide how to proceed and that's what most of us want,to have all the info without any censorship. It's not up to me or anybody else to try to control a narrative or worry about what another might do with the info(conspiracy).
There are good results from this vaccine and there are serious injuries and even death and we shouldn't pretend there isn't.

Quote from: Paul_H on May 21, 2021, 08:09:01 PMWasn't talking about here. If I can't answer a question I say I don't know.

Asking questions in good faith is certainly a good thing, even if the answer is "We don't know". The question is still a valid one. 

It's people wanting to fill that "I don't know" void with misinformation that's been a problem right though the pandemic. 

seen  lot of people die from the disease and none so far from the vaccine.  I would hope folks dedicating their lives to study would have some insight, although we are still learning about this disease, and yes the vaccines were made in a hurry, in an effort to save lives.  Yes we could be wrong, just like in big engineering projects or military operations.  sometime people die.  but at least some folks step up and try to take the bull by the horns. time will tell and hopefully enough good decisions are made to help more than they hurt.  God Bless.  Doc

Do you think vaccines should be mandatory?

Has the overall death rate for the USA increased significantly in 2020 from other years?

I got the Pfizer on Tuesday. Never felt it and hardly anything to speak of for soreness in the morning and gone by day 2. Was tromping in the bushes the next day and there after. 8)  Probably get # 2 the middle of June.

As to mandatory vaccines, I don't agree with being forced into it. But, for travel, I do agree making it a requirement. You still have a choice. ;) But always keep in mind, eradication can only happen with immunity. So if there is group of us that rejects vaccines it will always be lurking and mutating among us. The death rate might be low, but COVID affects your health for who knows how long. You might get over it or feel beaten up for 5 years (just a random number). ;)

Quote from: Paul_H on May 22, 2021, 12:46:42 AM
Do you think vaccines should be mandatory?

Has the overall death rate for the USA increased significantly in 2020 from other years?

No, I don't think they should be.   It's up to each person to decide.  And if you have had your vaccine you should be protected and good to go so why make others get it?
I don't know if it has but I did read where the numbers don't seem to add up right but I don't know that may have been total bollocks.   Lots of misinformation out there.  

Quote from: Paul_H on May 22, 2021, 12:46:42 AMDo you think vaccines should be mandatory?

No, not for the general public, but it should be encouraged as much as possible. It might be made a requirement for some jobs? But that's more of an employment / health and safety issue. Like SD says, if the disease is allowed to become Endemic it's going to keep flaring up and producing new mutations. We know it's possible to eradicate it in a population, so lets aim for that. 

Quote from: Paul_H on May 22, 2021, 12:46:42 AMHas the overall death rate for the USA increased significantly in 2020 from other years

That's a good question, because it would indicate if the "covid toll" was realistic.
Answer is Yes. Total recorded deaths in the US for 2020 was up by about 15%. Normally it might vary by maybe 2%. Considering that Flu cases were almost non-existent, "something" was out there killing more people than normal. 
Provisional Mortality Data ? United States, 2020 | MMWR (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7014e1.htm)

Well, these are not vaccines in the traditional sense, they are a gene therapy.  Just as in the above mentioned examples of what history and government have rushed through, nobody actually knows what these will do.  

"We will know in 10 years" is not a comforting or confidence building statement.  This whole thing has become political and profit driven theater.  

Immunity comes naturally too, but the "science" seems to be forgetting that inconvenient fact, maybe because nobody becomes a billionaire when that happens, and yes there are nine, new, big Pharma, billionaires that emerged as a result of this.  

Got the J&J Shot (one and done) Tuesday late morning. Woke up around 10:30 pm that night with a slight fever, but too un-comfortable to go back to sleep. Took a couple Advil and went back to sleep around 1:30 am. Woke up with a slight headache and returning fever. Took a couple Tylenol and felt okay (relatively speaking) with a general feeling of "malaise". When the fever relaxed, I was able to nap a little. Later that day, just after I told my bride that I wasn't up to doing the feeding- I started to feel better (Coincidence????). Just some tender to the touch bruising at the Injection Site is all that remains, and time will tell if I grow a tail or something.
Note: I had Covid in October, and these symptoms felt similar but less intense from the shot...
Lastly, @doc henderson (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=41041), most, if not all of us- appreciate your wisdom and concern for our individual health issues. Your advice is beneficial and comes from a place of sincere compassion. I just want you to know that I don't hold you or any of our Medical Care Professionals responsible for the discomfort I felt. Thanks for being here.
Steve 

I don't think I had any symptoms as far as I can tell. Maybe a little tired feeling. Lindy felt kinda blah yesterday but she has many bad days anyway due to other health issues so who knows if it was from the vax or just one of her not so great days.

Got 2nd Moderna on Thursday. Yesterday was a terrible day. Felt like I got run over by a bus. Joint and muscle pain, mostly from lower back down to feet. Slept great last night and feel better this morning, still some joint pain but not as bad. Advil couldn't touch it. Just ridin' it out.

Quote from: Ianab on May 22, 2021, 07:23:22 AM

Quote from: Paul_H on May 22, 2021, 12:46:42 AMDo you think vaccines should be mandatory?

No, not for the general public, but it should be encouraged as much as possible. It might be made a requirement for some jobs? But that's more of an employment / health and safety issue.





That's a good question, because it would indicate if the "covid toll" was realistic.
Answer is Yes. Total recorded deaths in the US for 2020 was up by about 15%. Normally it might vary by maybe 2%. Considering that Flu cases were almost non-existent, "something" was out there killing more people than normal.
Provisional Mortality Data ? United States, 2020 | MMWR (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7014e1.htm)

"If you require your employees to be vaccinated as a condition of employment (i.e., for work-related reasons), then any adverse reaction to the COVID-19 vaccine is work-related. The adverse reaction is recordable if it is a new case under 29 CFR 1904.6 and meets one or more of the general recording criteria in 29 CFR 1904.7."

OSHA Imposes New Guidance For Employer-Required COVID-19 Vaccines | 2021-05-03 | Engineering News-Record (enr.com)

(https://www.enr.com/articles/51691-osha-imposes-new-guidance-for-employer-required-covid-19-vaccines)It looks like employers forcing the gene therapy can be held liable.


U.S. Death Rate 1950-2021 | MacroTrends (https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/death-rate)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10199/IMG_1696rate.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1621690150)

Quote"The beginning of wisdom is found in doubting; by doubting we come to the question, and by seeking we may come upon the truth."

-Pierre Abelard

I saw this recently on a blog and it rings true to me

"Questioning and doubting what is going on these days does not make you "anti" anything. Nor does it make you a conspiracy theorist. Actually, questioning is and should be, the place of reason. The fact that questioning has become taboo, should, in fact, send a chill up everyone's spine."

Quote from: Paul_H on May 22, 2021, 12:46:42 AM
Do you think vaccines should be mandatory?

Has the overall death rate for the USA increased significantly in 2020 from other years?

No, but if enough folks get the disease or the vaccine, hopefully next year will be better.  I think when it is fully approved it will be mandated for military and medical workers.  I have not looked at the overall death rate.  I know more people died from covid in 2020 than 2019.  :) I will try to find out.  

In 2017 we were overwhelmed with influenza, despite a fair number getting immunized.  seeing 90 patients a day instead of 45 in the peds ED.  also RSV.  this past year I can count the RSV and flu I saw on one hand.  the lab keeps the numbers, hardly any.  So the mitigation helped those diseases be reduced.  Obviously the death rate of Covid is up (from 0 the year before) and other contagions are down.  the overall death rate may be the same.  car accident deaths are also reported down.

Moderna here, 1st shot just the usual soreness, second sore arm and lethargy for a day.
Wife the same.
My good friend and hunting and fishing buddy said in April, no vaccine for him and his family as he was going to wait and see.
He and 9 of his family now have covid.
Talked to him last Tuesday and he felt pretty good, but a little off.
My son talked to him yesterday and he is now not feeling too hot.
He was supposed to get off of quarantine on the 26th.
Doc i really appreciate your insight into this

I had the J&J shot a few months ago.  The nurse said my arm would hurt, and it did for maybe 5 minutes.  They had us wait in the room for 15 minutes in case of reaction, nobody had any, and we all left as the 15 minutes ran out.  I didn't notice any reaction, and wondered why we were still supposed to wear masks.  

I did the J&J two weeks ago. Hardly felt the shot, no discomfort during my 15 minute wait. I was tired that night and the next, but who knows, maybe just worked too hard those days. Other than maybe the fatigue, no side effects for me.

Quote from: Southside on May 22, 2021, 07:28:36 AM
Well, these are not vaccines in the traditional sense, they are a gene therapy.  Just as in the above mentioned examples of what history and government have rushed through, nobody actually knows what these will do.  

"We will know in 10 years" is not a comforting or confidence building statement.  This whole thing has become political and profit driven theater.  

Immunity comes naturally too, but the "science" seems to be forgetting that inconvenient fact, maybe because nobody becomes a billionaire when that happens, and yes there are nine, new, big Pharma, billionaires that emerged as a result of this.

Who made the vaccines (Man made)  Who made your immune system to accept the vaccines or accept natural immunity?  God did.  What one do you trust?
I think a lot of people get vaccinated and believe they have life long immunity.  I had titre test done this year and my doctor wanted to know if I wanted them for all known viruses and not just covid, I consented to it.  Apparently I'm not protected against anything accept for chicken pox which I acquired naturally.
I'm on the fence about this entire thing.. are vaccines a medical miracle or a masterful mirage?

one can make jokes about God vs doctors (I capitalized God!)  doctors are human and therefore not perfect.  They make lots of money and some have bad habits with wine women and song.  but not most that I know.  a few bad apples.  I guess if we give credit for all bad things to god, then doctor trying to help are the devil going against God.  I believe that God can intervene but for the most part allows nature to take its course.  some of nature is man made now, like the speed that a car can travel.  this is looked at as good, but causes many deaths.  If we try to save a life, are we going against Gods will?  many thing thought to be good do not reveal the bad side effects for many years.  I do not know any docs that want to harm people.  after years of work, we may not seem as kind, as we avoid some of the feeling around disease.  We cannot fall apart every time something bad happens, or we cannot help.  You will have to make up you own mind about docs and medicine.  I know that I work very hard, and we are all tired after this past year.  who knows how many deaths could have been prevented by the vaccine, or what unknown side effects we will find in the future.  God bless us all.

You could also argue that God gave us intelligence enough that we could create vaccines.

Doc - I don't think many take issue with the medical providers in all of this.  The talking head, the answer avoiding federal regulators, and big profit pharma on the other hand, that's another matter. 

SS, X2 to everything in your last post!

5-6 weeks and the arm is still sore. ::)

Peter, is it swollen or red?  This is unusual for any injection but you can have complications from the physical part of an injection.  Of course I cannot say it was not from the specific vaccine, but if it is, it is not common with our limited ( 1 year +) experience.

No Doc, I think it's getting better. Just a pain in the butt moving as much lumber as I do in a day.  :D :D

I think using it, and massage will help.  If it gets worse from where it is now I would be a little more concerned.  Now when did the pain move from you arm to you butt?! 8) :o :) :D

You know Doc I think I can get a lady friend to come over and rub me--my arm.
8)  smiley_biggrin01
What I have to go through to make us all safe. ;)

Welcome to the forum Sailor mars.
Always good to hear from a fellow Ranger school grad.
I am class of 59
Update on my unvaccinated friend he was admitted to ICU yesterday morning, no details yet on his condition.
He is 76 and otherwise pretty healthy.

Pete, say a prayer for your buddy and his family.  at his age, getting to ICU can be a worrisome event.  

13-Year-Old Dies in Sleep After Receiving Pfizer COVID Vaccine; CDC Investigating (newsweek.com) (https://www.newsweek.com/13-year-old-dies-sleep-after-receiving-pfizer-covid-vaccine-cdc-investigating-1606529?amp=1)

Quote"CDC is aware of a 13-year-old boy in Michigan who died after receiving a COVID-19 vaccination. This case is currently under investigation and until the investigation is complete, it is premature to assign a specific cause of death."

QuoteAfter receiving his second dose, Clynick exhibited common post-vaccine symptoms, such as fatigue, fever and a stomach ache, according to Burages. But, she said that the symptoms were not severe enough to cause concern.

People forget history.  My generation was one of vaccines that saved countless people from devastating diseases like smallpox and polio.  Part of our significant increase in lifespan has been reducing the risk of disease.  People are living much longer now in part because of vaccines and advances in medical care.  

The younger generation has been spoiled in many ways and take all these advances for granted.  They have not lived through hardship to the extent that the pioneers of the 20th century endured to make this country a safer and better place for them to live.  It is easy to complain about stuff that you did not have to suffer for and just to expect that you have a "right" to all benefits and freedoms because you are entitled.  Many people need to have the silver spoon taken out of their mouth and have it placed in a more posterior position.  
What medical advances how done for us is immeasurable in my life.  At least this is the way that I see it. Freedom is great, and anyone can do whatever you are free to do, and I am free to say many younger people are lazy, pampered, and ungrateful for all that has been given to them and done for them.  I also understand that it is free to be ignorant and to want much for nothing.  

I guess a nerve got struck. But then, that is free too.  Good luck to all the unvaccinated now and in your future  as mankind deals with people's impact on this earth all the while thinking it is their right to over-populate and destroy it. But do not worry, Mother Nature will solve the problem.  

I agree WDH.  I did some genealogy research a few years ago, and dug through a bunch of 1800s death records.   If you dig around in those, it's not hard to find entire families wiped out by disease.

I haven't forgotten history, it was my favourite subject. If a couple reports on possible adverse reactions amongst a thread on vaccine side effects can offend people then so be it. That young fellow is still just as dead as any covid victim

On this matter I see the issue as the science is ignoring things like acquired immunity, significant side effects, the talking head has direct connections to the origin he has tried to cover up, was paid $1 million above his salary, and has become the fear monger in Chief. Add to that Congressional immunity and a $50 billion incentive to the drug companies and a recipe for mis trust has been created. 

I do appreciate and understand your position on this and agree that those who came before us plowed a heavy road.

A frank discussion with a doctor should be how we our medical decisions.

That's how I make mine.

I agree that it's scary that a young person can die from a vaccine. 

The Cutter Incident: How America's First Polio Vaccine Led to a Growing Vaccine Crisis (nih.gov) (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1383764/)

Quoten April 1955 more than 200 000 children in five Western and mid-Western USA states received a polio vaccine in which the process of inactivating the live virus proved to be defective. Within days there were reports of paralysis and within a month the first mass vaccination programme against polio had to be abandoned. Subsequent investigations revealed that the vaccine, manufactured by the California-based family firm of Cutter Laboratories, had caused 40 000 cases of polio, leaving 200 children with varying degrees of paralysis and killing 10.

I knew several people while I was growing up that had polio and a few of them remained in hospital until they died, one of them was able to stay at home in a wheel chair and slept on a bed that slowly rocked. Only a few remain

I have sought medical advice as Dan suggested and that advice has varied but what bothers me is the hushing of any adverse effects and even the suggestion that those that choose to decline until the therapy is approved should should die.
Not being able to look at all sides good, bad and otherwise is not science. Imagine making business or financial decisions in that same way.

In my 20+ years in the Air Force, I'd really have a hard time naming all of the vaccines that I was given prior to my overseas assignments!

There are still lots of those diseases out there!

I agree with all that is said.  remember, we do not know the cause of death.  to assume it was from the vaccine is also not science.  It may have been, and if so, will have to way that against the threat of the disease.  the myocarditis, is also a side effect of many viruses including covid.  remember the police officer touted to be killed by the rioters on Jan 6th, and it turns out it was a day later and unrelated to the days events. I am not saying that an emergency vaccine is totally safe.  no medication is totally safe.  you have to way the risk vs the benefits.  In this case if we waited 10 years to deem it safe (still have to give it to millions of people to study it), then how many more people would we have lost this past year.  It is not that it carries no risk, but it decreases mortality and morbidity from the disease.  It is like marijuana.  some think it can do no harm cause it is "natural" and it can cure almost any ailment, and Dr. s will not admit it cause they do not make any money from it.  I do not make any money from any prescribed medication.  we all make out decisions.  but do not like to see rumors be distributed that might cause others to make decisions based on that mis-information.  not everything we thought was true, remains true.  so we all have to look at the information carefully.  I am thankful to have made it through this past year with all my family ok.  not all my neighbors can say that, and I and my wife work in healthcare.  carry on.

May the ones that don't get The Shot, never get sick. 
There is side effects, risks, with all drugs.
I work in a hardware store. Had a couple that came into the store. They was the ones that believed the Covid was not real. Well they both got it, they told me, and they was wearing masks now and made them realize there is something bad out there.

The original article was published by Newsweek.com which Media bias fact check says is

QuoteLast updated on May 30th, 2021 at 05:53 pm LEFT-CENTER BIAS These media sources have a slight to moderate liberal bias.  They often publish factual...

Newsweek - Media Bias/Fact Check (https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/newsweek/)

I think it's interesting how much emotion can come by simply posting an article. It doesn't come out and say that he died from the therapy only that he received it prior to dying.
Most of my loved ones have taken the jab so I certainly wish them no harm.

If you don't want the jab don't get it?  Many people that refuse to get the shot are very educated people.

The issue that gets me is how we have all these therapeutics and how suppressed they're.  It's vaccine or nothing and that is not the way mother nature intended it to be at all.  We can say polio is bad but do your research.. there was doctors out there that were turning patients over in a week.  These people with proper treatments were out of the hospital.  Dr Klenner was one of them (SWAN as well) but they're the suppressed.  Heck when COVID hit China.. there was doctors telling people to up their doses of vitamin A and D the results with 25-50 patients was mind blowing.  Youtube took that video down.. many doctors followed suit and couldn't believe it, they had nothing to loose... patients hook intravenously and on ventilators were walking out of the hospital the next day.  Few blogs about this and many families are grateful.

History is a double standard, doctors CANNOT treat people and experiment on them but yet someone else can.  Funny thing is, during my child hood all my books on history came from "MCGRAW HILL" The credibility of that I would argue with.  Books from the 1920's till now.... from private authors tells a different story.
:)

many of the claims from the polio era were later deemed to not have made a difference.  not everyone with polio has severe paralysis.  the treatment was to support ventilation until the patient recovers.  none of the vitamin stuff has been proven to help, and should be studied (deemed interesting).  Lots of people took lots of stuff, and swear it saved their life, but kind of hard to have a control group.  What is the point of speaking of it like it is a fact, when it has not been studied.  Many of the proponents of simple drugs or vitamins, have been promoting the same element for many things for years.  It should be studied.  It will be great if a simple treatment is found, but that is not usually the way it works.

Did Polio or even the Spanish flu have so many variants like we're seeing with covid? 

Here is a fact about polio. My dear departed dad was a twin, identical, until polio hit at 3-4 years old their mom had trouble telling them apart. Dad, Earl, and brother Carl, both got polio, both had the same genetics, same care, Earl recovered and served in WW2 and lived to 90 while Carl regained upper body strength his legs didn't recover and he was on crutches with leg braces, lived to mid 70s. Carl also ended up about 8" shorter than dad. So the fact as I see it is you just don't know how you personally will be affected until after the ordeal is over. All above may just be my opinion but I certainly lived with them.

my dad's dad had polio.  sent to town from the farm and went to vo-tec to learn auto body work.  could be mean as hell. played any instrument with strings including piano by ear.  there was no treatment, if you survived you got braces or crutches.  good thing he was mean.  he married my grandmother who was a girl in the family he lived with.  back in the day you did what you had to do to live.  we have it so much better that we bitch and moan that not everything is fixed and written in stone.!  god bless America.  quit your bitchen!

Quote from: WDH on July 05, 2021, 11:16:02 AM
People forget history.  My generation was one of vaccines that saved countless people from devastating diseases like smallpox and polio.  Part of our significant increase in lifespan has been reducing the risk of disease.  People are living much longer now in part because of vaccines and advances in medical care.  

The younger generation has been spoiled in many ways and take all these advances for granted.  They have not lived through hardship to the extent that the pioneers of the 20th century endured to make this country a safer and better place for them to live.  It is easy to complain about stuff that you did not have to suffer for and just to expect that you have a "right" to all benefits and freedoms because you are entitled.  Many people need to have the silver spoon taken out of their mouth and have it placed in a more posterior position.  
What medical advances how done for us is immeasurable in my life.  At least this is the way that I see it. Freedom is great, and anyone can do whatever you are free to do, and I am free to say many younger people are lazy, pampered, and ungrateful for all that has been given to them and done for them.  I also understand that it is free to be ignorant and to want much for nothing.  

I guess a nerve got struck. But then, that is free too.  Good luck to all the unvaccinated now and in your future  as mankind deals with people's impact on this earth all the while thinking it is their right to over-populate and destroy it. But do not worry, Mother Nature will solve the problem.  

Outstanding post.  Many nuggets that bear repeating and consideration.  Thank you for the thoughtful insights Danny.

Quote from: Paul_H on July 06, 2021, 04:00:00 PM
Did Polio or even the Spanish flu have so many variants like we're seeing with covid?

We are still seeing the variants of the Spanish Flu today. Just it's the various strains of Influenza virus that keep mutating and avoiding the vaccines. This is why the flu vaccine isn't really that effective. It protects against last years versions, not next years. Luckily most of the population now has "some" natural resistance (+ plus semi effective vaccines). So influenza is considered endemic, quietly circulating in the background, and not a "Pandemic".  
The Covid virus actually seems to be mutating less than Influenza, but with so many millions of cases around the world, new ones are bound to appear, like the more infectious "delta" variant that's currently spreading.
Polio doesn't seem to have created new variants, or at least not so different that the vaccine doesn't work. And now that it's extremely rare, that's even less likely. 

QuoteThe issue that gets me is how we have all these therapeutics and how suppressed they're

I don't think that's really a fair comment. Lot's of potential treatments have been investigated, to the level of doing actual clinical studies. But in spite of the anecdotal stories, the actual studies haven't been able to give significant results. 
Viruses are notoriously hard to treat once you are infected. They are technically not "alive", and only activate inside a host cell. Outside of that they are basically "inert" with no biological functions occurring. You can destroy them with bleach / UV light / high temperature etc, but that destroys any type of biological matter. Finding a drug that will deactivate or block the virus, but not interfere with the patient staying alive is the tricky thing. So antibiotics that work against bacteria have zero effect on a virus. Training a bodies immune system to recognise and attack the foreign virus is the most effective way to protect people. Having a strong immune system is of course good, which is why older folks suffer more serious cases, but if your body has never been exposed to a particular virus, then it takes time for the immune system to respond. Will it respond before you get seriously sick? The "therapeutics" are mostly about keeping patients alive for long enough for their immune system to kick in. 
My concern is that if too many people are avoiding the vaccine, in 6 months time it's going to be Winter in the US, and there will be another serious outbreak of the more infectious variant. And the more cases there are, the greater the chance of more mutations.   

I just re-read my comment from 3 posts ago, and want to clarify that my comment at the end was not directed at anyone on the forum, but to people in general who think there is a magic pill for everything.  I think I need some time off.   :)

Sure it's being suppressed, if several doctors whom treated thousands of patients are having success then why not use that tool?  Clinical trials come up ALL the time for vitamin c in mega doses and the success rate is pretty dang high.  Those trials are then shut down because there just is not enough research in vitamins to conclude it.  Yet isn't a trial and history "research"? ,, not approved research.. 

The biggest issue with it is.. how can you approve of something that literally grows in trees?  Sort of like how chaga kills cancer cells (shrinks tumors @ nih.gov) but how does pharma make profit from that when people can just walk into the forest?

Klenner states: (When proper amounts are used, it will destroy all virus organisms," he would say. "Don't expect control of a virus with 100 to 400 mg of C.")

Dr. Raymond Obomsawin whom presented his use of vitamin C/A and success was called bogus.  He told the group of lawyers and scientist to prove him wrong.  If it did not work then prove this to me.

Now we have two possible use cases-groups that are mutually exclusive.

It's a vicious cycle and hands down why so many are hesitant on getting vaccinated.  The US is at 40% according to google, I would say it's much lower especially if the government wants to knock on your doors now.  What about those that acquired natural immunity and now have m-cells that know how this thing works?  Very effective against all variants.. natural immunity is hard to beat.  Do we give them a spike protein, how does that work on the immune system that is already adaptive?  Sadly this topic could be discussed about for many years but making decisions for people is where there is going to be kick back.  Some of the doctors in our hospital are sick of the medical complex.  Few of them had their medical licenses suspended by the board, one the university revoked and claims they don't know them.  Just doesn't seem right.  We're here to help people in the safest way possible and this stuff is happening.  Crazy.

vitamins are considered a food supplement, and not regulated like drugs.  Therefore all sorts of claims can be made, and not prosecuted.  we all need vitamins as they act in biological chemical process.  at high doses, they are being used as a medication, but have not been studied.  I assure you if a doc had a 1 penny option, it would be used.  

My arm is 85% back to normal. I do remember when the guy pulled the needle out blood shot out of my arm on him.
Maybe that had something to do with it. :D

yes.  that is not usual, but he must of went through a vessel.  gave you a hematoma. :)

Quote from: doc henderson on July 15, 2021, 06:28:28 AM
yes.  that is not usual, but he must of went through a vessel.  gave you a hematoma. :)

Whatever that is ;)
I went to the doc today and they said the shot was too high in the arm. 
But a good thing is my a1c was 6.0 with just changing my diet.
 No more metformin. one a day. 8)

A very good sugar level!! Mine is not that low, but 6.5.

Quote from: Paul_H on May 06, 2021, 11:04:10 AM
A long time customer, seemingly healthy just got the Moderna vacc and 12 hours later died of an apparent cardiac arrest

I didn't want to hit the Like button on that, because I certainly don't like what happened. But I am extremely wary of these injections, and will not be getting one.
I realize this incident you mentioned may not be able to be proved to be caused by the injection, but I keep hearing these stories.

Quote from: thecfarm on July 15, 2021, 09:29:19 PM
A very good sugar level!! Mine is not that low, but 6.5.

It was 7.1 It's all what you put in your mouth. :D :D :D ;)

I had two Pfizer shots, May 27th and July 8th. Wife had hers too about the same time. She had a sore arm for a couple days. I had zero issues. Two days before my second shot I got bit by a deer fly. Apparently my body does not like deer fly bites. My arm and hand swelled up to the point I couple barely clench a fist. Day of second shot I showed the pharmacist that swelling and she said she would put the 2nd shot in the other arm. Then told me to take some Reactine for the swelling because Reactine doesn't make a person as sleepy. I took the Reactine for 3 days until the swelling went down but all I wanted to do was sleep for those 3 days. No surprise, my body always seems to to the opposite of what is expected. Anyway, to combat that I kept working at the sawmill. Best cure for illness is to keep moving, that's what I was told as a kid. I grew up in a time where you walked off the pain and worked through a sickness.

Wasn't planning on getting the shots. We work from home and live out in the country. Might see 2-3 people a week. And the bi-weekly trip to town is the only public exposure we get.  But, we did it to get the numbers up so we don't have to where these *DanG masks anymore in a store. 

I had a patient type 2 DM.  all he wanted to do was visit and tell jokes at his visits.  He was also hard of hearing so difficult to communicate with.  i think he was 60.  his HgA1c was 19.  he died within 2 years.  you guys are doing well.  we keep dropping the number we want.  too low and you start having lows that is not good.  most of the bad from diabetes takes 15 to 30 years to develop depending on your self care.  the trouble is that some type 2 folks go 10 years undiagnosed.  do the best you can.

Mine runs from 6.4 to 6.8 depending. Mom and her sister were both diagnosed at the same time, Mom took it serious, her sister not so much, the last 10 years of her life weren't really worth living. Mom could still drive, even played golf. Her sister was in one of those hover round things with nothing to do but watch day time tv. 

One of the side effects from the Pfizer is more confidence  going out and about, attempting to return to some sense of normalcy. The stuff I need to do to stay healthy, both physically and mentally.

Quote from: jimbarry on July 16, 2021, 07:10:59 AMbut all I wanted to do was sleep for those 3 days

That could have very well been the vaccine, it is quit common to be tired for a few days. 

Quote from: doc henderson on July 16, 2021, 10:19:50 AM
  do the best you can.

I do and have all the fun I can. 8) 8)
smiley_beertoast

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Haven't voted yet as first Pfizer shot was ~7 hours ago. I don't have to work tomorrow, so if I feel off colour I can just go back to bed. 

Main complaint here has been the slow roll out of the vaccine, due to limited supply. Anyway as of this month the deliveries have increased (as scheduled) and they are working on upping the vaccination numbers, to get though everyone by the end of the year. 

While there has been some confusion and complaints, I found the system worked OK for me. I had registered on the Govt website months back to be notified when I was eligible / appointments were available. and got a Txt message about 10 days ago, with a code for the booking web site. Went online, booked a place, and had the option of 3 different sites. The local site had only just been announced, and wasn't in the online system yet, so I booked in at the site 1/2 an hour South. If I'd waited a few days, I could have got a local spot next month, but what the heck. 

Anyway they had a pretty efficient setup and friendly staff. Not really a MASS vaccination event, it was in a small lounge at the the town sports complex, but they were probably getting though 20 folks an hour, and I was in and out on schedule. 

The nurse doing the after jab monitoring (20 mins) was joking with us about the guy that asked about the micro-chip. She said she was tempted to ask "What radio station do you want me to tune it to?" But she was far to professional to actually say that.  :D

Quote from: Ianab on July 29, 2021, 04:03:46 AM
Haven't voted yet as first Pfizer shot was ~7 hours ago. I don't have to work tomorrow, so if I feel off colour I can just go back to bed.

Main complaint here has been the slow roll out of the vaccine, due to limited supply. Anyway as of this month the deliveries have increased (as scheduled) and they are working on upping the vaccination numbers, to get though everyone by the end of the year.

While there has been some confusion and complaints, I found the system worked OK for me. I had registered on the Govt website months back to be notified when I was eligible / appointments were available. and got a Txt message about 10 days ago, with a code for the booking web site. Went online, booked a place, and had the option of 3 different sites. The local site had only just been announced, and wasn't in the online system yet, so I booked in at the site 1/2 an hour South. If I'd waited a few days, I could have got a local spot next month, but what the heck.

Anyway they had a pretty efficient setup and friendly staff. Not really a MASS vaccination event, it was in a small lounge at the the town sports complex, but they were probably getting though 20 folks an hour, and I was in and out on schedule.

The nurse doing the after jab monitoring (20 mins) was joking with us about the guy that asked about the micro-chip. She said she was tempted to ask "What radio station do you want me to tune it to?" But she was far to professional to actually say that.  :D

I’ll see(hear) you on 93.1 CKBW lol thanks for the chip contribution, look forward to hearing your thoughts.

There has been no clear evidence that Vitamin C is effective against Covid.  Period. Studies have been mixed and had very wide ranging results, depending upon methodology.

Studies have ranged from huge doses of VitC given intravenously to very ill Covid patients to population research comparing blood levels of Vit C between those infected and those who are not.  Studies have tended to show that populations with normal or high blood levels of Vit C are less likely to get infected.  That does not equate to concluding that taking Vit C to treat an acquired Covid infection is effective.  It takes months to raise your Vit C level.

People with normal or high Vit C levels have many differences with those whose Vit C levels are low (40-60% of the US!).  Low Vit C people are more likely to be overweight, have poor exercise habits, have poor diets, and more Medical comorbidities than those with normal levels.  These are some of the risk factors for Covid.  So the data make sense regarding a relationship between Vit C levels and Covid infections.  It does not mean that Vit C treats Covid effectively.

It is fascinating to me that, when a study is presented that has such poor methods that it's conclusions are not justified, the conspiracy theorists think that the info is being suppressed.  These studies get published (in lesser journals).  They are available to all physicians as well as the public.  But the editorial boards of reputable journals won't publish them, as they rarely meet the board's criteria for accuracy.  It's not about agreeing or disagreeing with the board's point of view on Covid, it's whether the study proved scientifically what it says it proved.  Why does this have to be political?  It's just science. This kind of thing happens over and over again in medicine, and now, because of divisions over Covid, it's spiraled out of control.  Vit Cdoes not treat or cure Covid.  Period  

A lot of those poor studies change the rules on the fly to influence results. James Randi pointed that out with things not disease related with studies about the paranormal. He proved there were a lot of poor experiments by orchestrating a hoax experiment (2 actually) with two people he knew very well. The researchers took it hook line and sinker and showed how easy it is to be fooled when your mind set is already biased toward the outcome and you strongly believe in it from the get go.

I've had two Pfizer shots, nothing more than 3 days of something like a bruise feeling at the injection site. Nothing that really made you think about it, nothing like a bee sting. Out of 1 to 10, barely a 1. :D

66% of New Brunswickers are fully vaccinated. 82% with at least one dose.

Doc,

Lot of self-appointed medical experts these days.  I appreciate you sage experience and knowledge. 

things are picking up here again.  13 out of 14 cases in past week are unvaccinated, and all are the delta variant. the vaccinated patient is over 100 years old.  will start up weekly covid task force meeting on the 2nd of august.  I will attend just prior to pulling out for the pigroast.

Quote from: doc henderson on July 30, 2021, 09:13:25 AM
things are picking up here again.  13 out of 14 cases in past week are unvaccinated, and all are the delta variant. the vaccinated patient is over 100 years old.  will start up weekly covid task force meeting on the 2nd of august.  I will attend just prior to pulling out for the pigroast.

100! Holy smokes. Hope they pull through it.  

LITTLE ROCK, Ark. – Gov. Asa Hutchinson said Thursday that he is reinstating a public health emergency for the state of Arkansas as COVID-19 cases skyrocket and that he is bringing back the legislature for a special session to consider amending a state law banning mask mandates to allow for schools to set their own guidelines.

The governor said his main reason for implementing the state of emergency, which still needs approval by the Arkansas Legislative Council, is the current status of hospitals in the state.

"I believe today it was four covid patients that are waiting in ambulances to find a hospital to go to that constitutes an emergency and a public health crisis," he explained.

Better than 96% with covid in the hospital are un-vaccinated.

Quote from: doctorb on July 29, 2021, 06:07:58 PMVit Cdoes not treat or cure Covid.  Period  

It's really up to the immune system to cure anything viral or bacterial..I would like to reference;
(OMNS Mar 3, 2020) The government of Shanghai, China has announced its official recommendation that COVID-19 should be treated with high amounts of intravenous vitamin C. (1) Dosage recommendations vary with severity of illness, from 50 to 200 milligrams per kilogram body weight per day to as much as 200 mg/kg/day.

These dosages are approximately 4,000 to 16,000 mg for an adult, administered by IV. This specific method of administration is important, says intravenous therapy expert Atsuo Yanagisawa, MD, PhD, because vitamin C's effect is at least ten times more powerful by IV than if taken orally. Dr. Yanagisawa is president of the Tokyo-based Japanese College of Intravenous Therapy. He says, "Intravenous vitamin C is a safe, effective, and broad-spectrum antiviral."

Labeled wrong... not true (why? Question it? Email the DR and ask them?)

https://infinitehealth.biz/uploads/Coronavirus.pdf

http://www.drwlc.com/blog/category/covid-19-vit-c-and-integrative-medicine/

Sessions here with doctors will tell you, "If I keep giving you vitamin c, how can I make any money off of you?"  We can't ignore it when people are using this stuff out in the field with success.  It's black and white, licking sand will cure covid.. how far will research take that (salts, quarts, possible protein in the sand might have benefit?)  I can guarantee you it will not have the same amount of research looking forward as to something that has been used with results.  Results will vary.  At the end of the days it's about getting home to your family, we can't just set things aside and say we did everything we could.  Don't administer vitamin C... it hasn't been research enough?  It's been used for 1000's of years.  Tomorrow we will use an unapproved drug that has ten years of research and we will recommend it.  I digress.

Minor Reference:
1. Godlee Fiona
2. Johnson Boris.
3. Konotey-Ahulu FID.  
4. ZhiYong Peng.
5. Jing Zhang, Xin Rao, Yiming Li, Yuian Zhu, Fang Liu, Guangling Guo, Guoshi Luo, Zhongi Meng, Daniel D Baker, Hui Xiang, Zhi-Yong Peng.
6. Cheng Richard Z
7. Klenner F. 1951.
8. Cheng Richard Z.
9. Cheng Richard C.
11. Carter Stephen.
16. Hoffer Abram, Pauling Linus.
17. Hickey Steve, Saul Andrew W.
18. Konotey-Ahulu FID.

I would be happy to send you a list of randomized controlled studies, including those from China, that have shown no or minimal effect with Vit C. I do note that the references you provided are all prior to March 2020, when the rest of the world was just beginning to encounter Covid.  Much well done research outside of China has not backed up those early claims since that time.

I have no problem, however, with a patient receiving this therapy.  And I have no issue with the generally accepted concept that Vit C is a overall booster of immune response.  But the science is what it is.  If I were in an ICU, might I ask for it?  Maybe, but probably not.   But, when you get that sick you tend to get into the "kitchen sink" mentality, and throw everything you can at the disease whether you know it works or not.  You follow up with the "It can't hurt" philosophy and you can add all kinds of things to the mix, including Hydrochloroquine.  Pretty soon you are taking 50 supplements and meds per day that have no proven effect on your outcome.

Most docs have seen this trend in their practices for years.  I fall on the side of science, and I'm ready to accept changes in science as they occur.  If Vit C is proven effective against Covid, I'll be the first to say I was incorrect.  I have no skin in this game except hoping that this dang disease goes away ASAP.

Quote from: Larry on July 30, 2021, 11:10:08 AM


Better than 96% with covid in the hospital are un-vaccinated.

DocumentCloud (https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21030483-outbreak-of-sars-cov-2-infections-including-covid-19-vaccine-breakthrough-infections-associated-with-large-public-gatherings-massachusetts-july-30-2021)

QuoteApproximately three quarters (346; 74%) of cases occurred in fully vaccinated persons (those who had completed a 2-dose course of mRNA vaccine [Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna] or had received a single dose of Janssen [Johnson & Johnson] vac- cine ≥14 days before exposure)

Quote10%) specimens. Among the 469 cases in Massachusetts residents, 346 (74%) occurred in persons who were fully vaccinated; of these, 301 (87%) were male, with a median age of 42 years. Vaccine products received by persons experiencing breakthrough infec- tions were Pfizer-BioNTech (159; 46%), Moderna (131; 38%), and Janssen (56; 16%); among fully vaccinated persons in the Massachusetts general population, 56% had received Pfizer- BioNTech, 38% had received Moderna, and 7% had received Janssen vaccine products. Among persons with breakthrough infection, 274 (79%) reported signs or symptoms, with the most common being cough, headache, sore throat, myalgia, and fever. Among fully vaccinated symptomatic persons, the median interval from completion of ≥14 days after the final vac- cine dose to symptom onset was 86 days (range = 6–178 days). Among persons with breakthrough infection, four (1.2%) were hospitalized, and no deaths were reported. Real-time RT-PCR Ct values in specimens from 127 fully vaccinated patients (median = 22.77) were similar to those among 84 patients who were unvaccinated

Just putting this up for scrutiny

I have already said the out of 14 patients this past week, with covid, 13 were unvaccinated, and the one that was, was over 100years old.  we accepted 3 transfers from dodge city Ks today with covid, all from people in the meat packing industry from an area of few vaccinated patients.  all hospitals within 100 miles are now on diversion.  My best friend (best man in our wedding, fellow pediatrician) had a dad that had also wanted to be a doc.  he became the president of the printers union in NY, and had worked at the Albany times union.  He started reading all these books filled with "studies".  One was called the cure for all cancers, and basically had natural cures for every cancer.  It stated that docs did not want people to know because they could make tons of money on chemo therapy.  A sequel book called the cure for all diseases stated cures for diabetes were ignored by traditional docs cause the surgeons made more money cuttings off peoples legs.  the studies were testimonial based on personal experience using natural methods.  no study at all.  gossip. this is ridiculous!  He would go into the hospital to visit friend and relative and slip the a natural cure and when they got out tell everyone that his intervention prob. saved their lives.  all in his head.  he candles my ear once as I had an external otitis, and he caught my hair on fire, but did not help my disease ( I was trying to be open minded).  A natural doc I knew (dead now, smoked 3 packs a day)  would call a pre cancer like myelodysplasia (a potential precancer) cancer and then tell the patient they were cured with natural meds.  this is the old snake oil sales.  I do not make money from drug sales.  and get paid by the hour and no different if I do a life saving procedure or not.  of course I do the life saving procedure based on the need of the patient.  

Paul-

Both Larry and the report you quote are probably accurate.  The vast majority of severe infections and deaths from Covid currently are in the unvaccinated.  This report was done in Massachusetts, where there is a very high percentage of vaccinated people.   It is not surprising that a very high percentage of people attending these gatherings were vaccinated.  As they tested for breakthrough Covid infections, one would expect the data to show those people with positive tests had a higher percentage of vaccinated versus unvaccinated.  

Hypothetical:   1000 people are at an event. 900 are vaccinated and 100 are not.  300 of the vaccinated attendees test positive for Covid and 50 of the unvaccinated test positive.   Therefore....85% (300/350 total +tests) of the positive tests were in vaccinated people and the non-vaccinated accounted for 15%. This is the exact same scenario as in this report and explains the difference in what Larry was saying, and doc Henderson just said, and the numbers reported in this recent report.

It is notable that only 1.2% of the breakthrough infections in vaccinated people were hospitalized and there were no deaths in the vaccinated population.

Thank you I appreciate the input.

The reality is i just got home after 14.5 hours and no beds for a hundred + miles, and 4 people to admit in the ED.  7 day old baby, covid +, checking to see if it is a false + by rechecking and check both parents.  calling in administrators.  tuff to find staff already overworked, on the weekend.  this is the reason 

Doc h:

Appreciate your front line straightforward view.

2 days after getting 1st Pfizer shot. 

Day 1 my arm was a little sore, but nothing I'd worry about. But I was feeling very tired. Day 2, back to normal and arm is coming right. So I'm going with "very minor". 

I think what happens with the Vitamin C idea is that it's completely true that being deficient in various vitamins or minerals can certainly lower your immune response, and even cause specific diseases. But that doesn't necessarily mean that giving extra doses boosts immunity to above "normal". It's like how they gave pilots in WW2 carrot juice to try and improve their night vision. It's true that lack of Vitamin C causes a person to loose vision, but it didn't matter how many carrots they drank, a healthy person's vision didn't get any better. It didn't do any harm as it's just carrots, apart from turning you slightly Orange, they won't poison you. 

I suspect that if you compared Vit C levels in patients, people with low levels are quite likely to fare worse on average, as they are technically malnourished. But that's not the same as Carrots curing Covid. I wish it was that simple, and I bet the Dr's do too. 

The cancer quacks are still allowed to operate without proven results from tested methods by 3rd parties. It's not just cancer, even eyesight, they claim some concoction will give you site. They prey on people willing to try anything in desperation.

How many books did Kevin Trudeau sell "Natural Cures they don't want you to know about"? His next book was about becoming wealthy, no joke.....but. :D

Man, you see these special guests on talk shows and infomercials all the time to sell a book. You'll read some dirty secret in their book. Reminds me of the fall fair, all them scam games to take your money. :D

Quote from: Ianab on July 31, 2021, 12:46:20 AM
2 days after getting 1st Pfizer shot.

Day 1 my arm was a little sore, but nothing I'd worry about. But I was feeling very tired. Day 2, back to normal and arm is coming right. So I'm going with "very minor".

I think what happens with the Vitamin C idea is that it's completely true that being deficient in various vitamins or minerals can certainly lower your immune response, and even cause specific diseases. But that doesn't necessarily mean that giving extra doses boosts immunity to above "normal". It's like how they gave pilots in WW2 carrot juice to try and improve their night vision. It's true that lack of Vitamin C causes a person to loose vision, but it didn't matter how many carrots they drank, a healthy person's vision didn't get any better. It didn't do any harm as it's just carrots, apart from turning you slightly Orange, they won't poison you.

I suspect that if you compared Vit C levels in patients, people with low levels are quite likely to fare worse on average, as they are technically malnourished. But that's not the same as Carrots curing Covid. I wish it was that simple, and I bet the Dr's do too.

To be honest I've always wondered where the saying "eat your carrots to keep your eyesight" came from, now I know.

It was sad, as my buddy who is a great doc, had to endure his Dads comments.  not only did he begin to believe the cures and tout them like a doctor (that he always wanted to be) but if you did not agree, he was programed to then think you were one of the doctors that just wanted to somehow secretly make more money with traditional medicine.  I have too many stories about patients that suffered due to putting faith in the al-natural when there was a proven treatment available.  with covid, we are starting to figure some things out, but it is new.  many things are assumed based on knowledge surrounding this family of viruses.  I had many a meal at his parents house and they treated me like family.  the tradition was to go for breakfast any Saturday morning I was off.  It started with his dad recommending a shot of vinegar "and you will live forever"  to later sneaking walnut oil extract into a hospital room and giving it to a friend awaiting gallbladder surgery.  He would tell us it made the person pass the stone and created a lot of pain, but that the person then really did not need the surgery so the doc did it to make the money.  the doc never new of the remedy the patient was given.  so it can get dangerous.  It is true some nutrients from carrots were thought to be good for eye sight, but it is not like all the kids that did not like carrots went blind.   :)

But it worked, my mother made "Shine your eyes salad" back in the days of jello molds. Orange jello with grated carrots in it. I could see great at night. Hmm maybe that'll fix things, I haven't had any in years  :).

well she got you to eat some carrots anyway!  :)  I can remember working up babies for jaundice in the NICU only to find the orange baby drinking breast milk from a mom who was a vegan.  mom eating lots of yams and carrots, will turn a preemie orange, like in Willy Wonka.   :o :o :o

I am now fully vaccinated for Anthrax, so I got that going for me.  My arm hurts though.

My arm is still sore from the shot. ::)

The human body is a very very complex thing, that nobody fully understands, even those who devote their entire life to it. There are so many factors that go into health--and disease--that it is very difficult to wade through the details and try to make sense of it on some level. 

Some basic things that can be variables:

1. Genetics (a. healthy normal genetic variables, b. mutated genetic variables)
2. Nutrition (a very broad topic with many parts)
3. Exercise and personal lifestyle and activities
4. Toxins taken into the body through various methods
5. Natural and/or augmented immune system function (including environmental factors)
6. Physical trauma (also including radiation and similar external stimuli)
7. Mental/psychological/spiritual input
8. Climate and environment
9. Exposure to pathogens and parasites

And possibly I missed some.

My wife had a very disturbing neurological condition. Her health went downhill very rapidly. To the point she could barely walk, and was losing the ability to drive safely. Our MD referred her to many different therapists and specialists in our area, none of whom could figure out her problem. Finally, he referred her to go down to the Medical University of South Carolina, arguably the most prestigious and elite hospital in our state. She had been in a wheelchair for about three years by that point. We had to drive down to Charleston, 4 hours away, stay at a hotel overnight, etc.

The doctor at MUSC looked my wife over, and said she had no help for her. She said my wife definitely had a real neurological condition, and it was likely to get worse. She could not diagnose what the problem was. She could not recommend a course of treatment. She could not think of any tests to discover anything new about it. She literally said she did not understand why our doctor had sent us down there.

To say that ground our gears was accurate. In absolute disappointment, we spent an hour or two at the beach (it was very difficult to get her down to the water), and headed home. 

At that point, we started thinking about acting on the recommendation of a friend, to go see a specific holistic doctor in our area. We were very skeptical. We also didn't have out of pocket cash to dole out for speculative snake oil stuff. Somebody gave us the money to go for the first appointment, though. The holistic doctor said my wife had several ailments combining to cause her problem, probably the most significant of which was meningitis. (None of the MD's had suggested doing a spinal tap. If they had, maybe they would have discovered this. Makes me wonder why they didn't).

My wife took the simplistic supplemental treatments for seven days. On the seventh night she felt worse than ever. Then on the eight morning, she got out of bed healed. She celebrated by taking a half mile walk. That was two years ago. The wheelchair is gathering dust in our shed. Hundreds of people who know my wife are astounded by the night and day difference. Recently, this same doctor also cured my daughter's medium-severe peanut allergies. Since then, she has helped many of our friends with many of their ailments. She CAN NOT cure everything. But many things she can. She has also taught my wife many of the basics of how to diagnose and even treat some of these things at home. This too, is science. It is repeatable and formulaic. We still go to the MD for some things. Especially traumatic injuries. Thank God, we have not gotten Covid, though we have not (and will not) be jabbed. That is not to say we can't get it. I'm sure we could, and we may. We have certainly been exposed to it. My wife's father died with it in January (he had many underlying conditions, including a previous lung injury). My wife and son took some symptoms about the time her dad caught it, but they were over their minor symptoms within a couple days. I got a quick sniffle, and was past it. Covid is a serious situation. People are dying from it and with it. But there is a lot to it. I have personal spiritual convictions keeping me in the (quite large) camp of people not interested in the jabs. But it's okay. To each his/her own. One of my good friends is a career-long RN nurse. She took retirement earlier than necessary this summer to avoid being forced to take the medication. She told me she won't take it under any circumstances. There are a good number of medical professionals who agree with her, and I have other friends whose family members are literally losing their jobs as a result. But everyone must make their own decisions, and I respect that.

For Canada, here are the reported numbers of adverse effects. Noting 0.011 percent of 60M doses. And you can see the traditional vaccines are not excluded in adverse events, in fact you can see more AstraZeneca (viral vector based vaccine) reports of any vaccine. Still very rare percentages.

COVID-19 vaccine safety: Weekly report on side effects following immunization - Canada.ca (https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/vaccine-safety/#)

Quote from: SwampDonkey on December 16, 2021, 05:44:53 AM
For Canada, here are the reported numbers of adverse effects. Noting 0.011 percent of 60M doses. And you can see the traditional vaccines are not excluded in adverse events, in fact you can see more AstraZeneca (viral vector based vaccine) reports of any vaccine. Still very rare percentages.

https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/vaccine-safety

I am not able to access through the link. 

yesterday i bought a bush hog and had to bring my kids, i told him from a distance when i got there that my boy was positive for covid a week ago, he is doing fine now and i never got it but im gonna keep them in the truck and stay away from you and not take any chances getting your kid sick, etc cool?  he was thankful and we got to talkin awhile as i loaded it myself which took quite a bit.

he's a  31 yr old healthy athlete who had covid go thru him and his wife but not the 2yr old daughter.  he lost his taste and smell which comes and goes in waves. now with phantom smells and stuff like that which my wife also experienced.  they all had moderna jab and boosters since, my wife got 1 round of vax forced by employer but i dont know which brand.  this is not about reactions to vaccine but what im gonna tell you is important.

my wife and this guy both lost smell and taste.  he has since been having really severe twitches and shudders, definitely uncontrolled and he cant feel most of them.. i asked if he had turrets but does not, just little nervous ticks that are way worse now.  well, my wife has been diagnosed with a "demyelinating disease" that will likely be narrowed down to MS or something thats very similar to it but lesser known by the public,  and has had bouts of optic neuritis that took her vision during inflammatory flare ups.  it has come back, but it will degrade with each bout as the immune system eats the myelin sheath off the optic nerve.  the myelin on the brain stem is also attacked which is where the shakes come from.   im confident this guy will degenerate over time as well and eventually when severe enough, a few months waiting for a neurologist will give him a rubber stamp disease and send him home to deal with it on his own which has been our experience in the system.  falling apart at the seams and waiting months for a pro to give you a piece of paper with only a few words on it you can even understand.

so in both my wife and this guy's case, it is natural to chalk all kinds of side effects up to lasting reverberations of covid when its not.  viruses cause disease and it appears to me that most of our chronic diseases are underlying conditions from long term diet, exercise, sleep, environmental factors, low dose toxins and so forth.   if youve had covid a while ago and are experiencing all sorts of after effects, dont just write them off.  the virus should come and go pretty fast for you is my personal conclusion.  any extras you have lingering on should be looked into pretty quickly.  and dont be surprised if your medical provider brushes it off or sends you home with a tylenol or two cookies to get out of his/her face.  i mean dig into it yourself because no one cares about your health more than you.

smell, taste and vision loss should be taken very seriously.   if youve experienced them start learning about the dietary elements prone to causing inflammation because inflammation is a major issue in demyelinating events.  i have seen my wife go from fantastic to almost shock over one piece of food.  it was one cheat day after a month of strict whole 30 that caused her to go blind for a few days.  that gets real expensive real fast. i wanted to keep her situation private but i feel like not speaking up is helping other people down the road to misery.

@Stephen1 (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=3648) Try the link now. It was missing the end of the url.

   Maybe some whiz kid doctor can modify the Covid virus to just remove the sense of smell in old women so they don't complain about old men farting in the sheets at night. :D No telling how many marriages would be saved. ::)

Only men fart? I doubt that factoid. For the record, my wifes sense of smell & hearing easily exceeds a German Shepards! Really. ;D
On the vaccine reactions: We both had overt, nasty reactions from #2 Moderna, fever, aching joints, very tired and so on. Our recent #3 booster of Moderna, 50mg's, we neither had any reaction at all other than a sore spot near the injection. My shoulder it bruised badly for some reason? I guess she hit a vessel in there as the Band-Aid was full of blood and still bruised some after several weeks but not sore.
 

Only way you'd know if a vein was struck is if she aspirated, which is the proper way to give it. ;)  

You could get a little swelling for awhile at the injection I think, not associated with hitting a vein.

As far as blood, anyone bleeds if they are pricked with a needle and still breathing. ;)

Bruising might be sign of striking something on the way in.

I self-inject weekly so have a goodly grasp of injections plus 10+ yrs of military shots was several. As a kid I had a thyroid defficiency which included two shots a week for two years back then-yes I've had a bunch of shots. The cortisone shot in the shoulder is a joy to behold. They go for the joint to place it well, doc said if it hurts he's done well. ;D
That booster shoulder has titanium cable like a ballot box with an X in it wrapped on 4 screws. I told her to watch out for the hardware which she'd done by going for the meat. Given I'm doing PT on the other shoulder I wanted to keep the vaccine away from it. 
The 3rd booster was basically pain free shot. 

Got the Moderna booster last week. Had the J&J back in April.

No reactions at all from the J&J. The Modena gave me a sore arm for 2 days even though the shot was painless.

So far, so good!

I hated cortizone in the shoulder.  Never helped me either. 

Mom's uncle got too much cortizone, he got a lot of fluid as a reaction. He was seriously arthritic. This was back in the 60's and they probably didn't know what they know now.

As far as arthritis goes, mother has never needed a Tylenol since she has been taking 3000 IU's of Vit D a day. No, it's not a cure when you've already got it, but it sure improves things.

Quote from: mike_belben on December 24, 2021, 09:19:41 AM
I hated cortizone in the shoulder.  Never helped me either.

I got my 9th left knee cortisone shot on 12/22. The shots are not all the same contents of the three common ingredients, but most all joint shots have a touch of lidocaine for immediate pain relief. I tend to gain mostly full use of that knee for about 75-80% of the 3 month intervals between shots.  
As a CTS guy dating back to 20+ years from surgeries and long before that as a sufferer, a good hand doc tries all the non-surgical stuff first, like use, splints, meds, so on. In my case the wrist shots did zero. For my wife it was like sort of a cure.
I'll do my rt shoulder 3 month shot in a week and will proceed even though PT is helping too. My therapist says his manipulation indicates a partial tear of the cuff, even though x-rays show none. Given both shoulders have much age/use related osteo I'm thinking try one in both sides this visit. The shoulder shot has to be delivered well into the joint and a bitch to get, whereas my knee shot is way more superficial. Since I'm bone on bone on one "knuckle" of my femur he directs the knee shot more so toward that side.
It's been several years since my last trigger finger shot and bouts with that have gone away on their own since then. With it, I learned that there's a huge difference in technique to deliver the shot into the areas that help, having used two practitioners.
My main thought is they can help a lot so never base your own needs on others experience with the shots as results are a variable. How the shot helps or doesn't is a major aspect of each shot visit I do with my knee. Once quality of life is just not there then we talk surgery.
Mu shoulder doc said it was new joint or PT so given that shoulder joints don't offer full return to normal use-I'm a PT person.  
Back to covid shots, a well worn subject? 

 I got the booster back on the 15th no problems  :) .

I got the booster on Thursday.  Arm was sore for a day then better.  A bit tired Thursday night but no big deal.  

Both the wife and I have had 2 doses of Moderna plus a booster.
Me, sore arm for a couple/three days .
Wife, flu like symptoms all three times, fever ,chills etc. for a few days , the booster only for a day or two. 

PatD got her Booster a couple of weeks ago but I was sawing at the time.  I got my Booster last Sunday afternoon but I forgot to let my arm hang limp.  I actually felt the jab plus there was more soreness this time.  No mater because I have no sawing scheduled until next year.

I received the moderna booster last week, sore arm was about it.

Barb & I got our boosters on Dec 5. Our original 2 shots were Pfizer-BionTech but this time were were given a choice: either Pfizer or Moderna. The nurses told us the Moderna booster offered slightly better protection so we both decided (without consulting) to go with the Moderna.

I had recently reviewed the product monographs and we were told seemed to fit with what I'd read: both products gave similar results as first and second doses, but the Moderna might be better as a booster.

It also turns out the Moderna (as a booster) has less severe side effects.

In our cases it amounted to a slightly sore arm (tender to the touch) and a general feeling the next day of being tired with achy muscles and joints. Actually, that isn't too far off our usual winter normal anyway :D.

One interesting thing for me -- after the second shot in my left arm, my shoulder remained sore for over 6 months; not at the injection site but at the top of my arm. I'd feel it any time I lifted anything. I asked to get the booster in my right arm, and now, 3 weeks later, the pain in my left shoulder is fading rapidly (and no, the pain didn't transfer to my other arm ;D). There's no way to know if this is a cause-and-effect situation, or just coincidence.

For me, I've always had shoulder pain for at least 10 years now, in the shoulder joints. My brother and cousin have as well. A lot of lifting in our younger days. Mine was mainly from lifting a heavy snow blower out of or into my RAV4. I do have a firmer spot at the injection site (Pfizer), but no pain from it or mark anywhere. I figure the same thing when we had shots years ago, lots of us have a permanent mark there that will always be there. That was years ago. ;) I also get neck pain and stiffness, but that started years before any shots. Most likely Arthur. All that combined doesn't make for the best sleep. :D Again, nothing to do with the shots. Aging ain't for sissies and at an earlier time, 3 generations back, you weren't far from the grave yard. Great grandfathers and uncles never reached 60, hard workers every one of them. Living out of a lean to when working in the woods looks quaint on movies and Youtube pretend prepper types. Do it 30 years and see how it goes. Only get a nice bed back home on Sunday. :D :D

 Rita an I are all jabbed up first two were pfizer boost was modurna, neither of us had any reactions or side effects.

Ma and I are going in Thursday afternoon for a boost.

Had Moderna 1&2 and booster.  Never had any reaction with any of them.

Moderna booster Thursday. I feel fine, just the usual injection site soreness.

Another thing to note, 6600 procedures in New Brunswick have taken a back seat to COVID. Unbelievable, would you not say? I'd say that is a side effect at the highest magnitude.

only a few pharmacies received the new oral antiviral.  sold out in 3 days at my wifes pharmacy and will get restocked every 2 weeks with whatever they have.  running out of monoclonal.  we are still primarily delta.  I had a doc candidate here for 2 days and slept all afternoon yesterday and all night.  I kind of feel rested up now.  worked 10/12 days, 12-hour shifts.  went in for a few hours in addition to help.  we have an app out as his wifes family all have covid.  he is vaccinated and feels ok but tested +.  another app is neg., but her husband and daughter tested +.  If too many are +, we will work anyway.  Hope this decreases soon.  We get some patient complaints that they had to wait 3 hours and then put in a hallway bed.  Do they not watch the news, or the wrong news?  They cannot understand why they have to wait.   Lots of people talking of quitting medicine all together.  with omicron, we should see everyone getting infected, even the vaxed and I hope that with less severe illness. shut this thing down.

No Doc - people do not watch the news or pay attention, it's amazing some remember to breathe.  

thank God.  cause you know they would go to the ED to find out what was wrong!   :D :D :D

Quote from: Southside on January 08, 2022, 07:04:42 AM
No Doc - people do not watch the news or pay attention, it's amazing some remember to breathe.  

Those who do tend to watch "their version of the news"? My point is that media providers are very polarized, it's certainly no secret.
Kind of a pick your party thing for sure.
Every one of our local news sources you'll hear the one version, none have the other version. As newspapers have declined or gone away entirely, the few left that rely on skeleton crews use a source like Bloomberg or whomever for most of whats there. The age of a balanced newspaper is long gone. The big ones have a tad of balance but mostly not. I know this as I read them in my senior years when times at hand. I actually find purpose in reading stuff that pisses me off to be blunt about the subject. I'd give examples but don't want to be banned ;D here.
Read something, yeh-only if it's on their cell phone...  :D
Then we have the CDC, WHO and all the "scientific" info which often conflicts with real doctors information. Few days ago I heard a local TV station play clips from two local doctors who were flat out wrong in the covid information they'd given and I'm not talking opinions either on my end.
Thats part of what killed the other covid thread here.
 
Our local and only close hospital has no supply of covid treatments per last nights TV news. First time they have been on that news in my memory.