Simonds standall teeth quality control issue - anyone else notice?

[SheSaws]

Recently we got a shipment of Stand-All 5/16ths 9/8 BF style chrome teeth from Simonds and every box we got for the last two shipments were absolute garbage and was wondering if other people experienced the same thing.

Straight out of the box the teeth were *very* dull and the cutting surface was shorter than usual. One box was extremely dull AND had a rolled over burr edge. I can tell they weren't used, the flat surface looks brand new and the box was taped shut.

It has only been the last two shipments we got from our local saw dealer, even the replacement order came dull. 

Sharpening brand new teeth sucks, it immediately makes shortens the life of the teeth and those teeth are expensive.

[SawyerTed]

Welcome to the Forum.  I don't use that brand so can't comment.  What does your supplier say?

[DanielW]

The last boxes I got were fine, but my supplier had loads of stock, so I suspect they've been sitting on their shelf for a while. Hopefully they haven't changed their manufacturing practices.

That's really unfortunate to hear: I always figured Simonds was one of the few reputable companies still left in this gig. I'd be causing a massive stink if it were me: Shame on Simonds for making them like that, and shame on your supplier for selling them.

[SheSaws]

Welcome to the Forum.  I don't use that brand so can't comment.  What does your supplier say?

My bosses are working on reaching out to the supplier. But the first time they reached out they sent us a new box and that new box was also bad so I'm not sure where they stand at this point. I'm just wondering if an entire batch was bad And other people also have seen this dip in quality

[SheSaws]

The last boxes I got were fine, but my supplier had loads of stock, so I suspect they've been sitting on their shelf for a while. Hopefully they haven't changed their manufacturing practices.

That's really unfortunate to hear: I always figured Simonds was one of the few reputable companies still left in this gig. I'd be causing a massive stink if it were me: Shame on Simonds for making them like that, and shame on your supplier for selling them.

Well, that's what I'm trying to do. To get my buyers at the mill to make a stink to the vendors. They don't have to use these [I have typed a profane word that is automatically changed by the forum censored words program I should know better and could be banned for doing it] teeth, so it seems to not be a priority to them. I was hoping to find other people with a similar issue, so I can show my bosses that it's a real problem.

[Bert]

Not chromes but plain but the last box I ordered directly from Simonds all had a slight angle on the tip. Enough to pull the saw some. Not a huge deal but required a filing to square them up.

[longtime lurker]

I go through a couple boxes of dominators a year, haven't seen any issues with them.

[SheSaws]

Not chromes but plain but the last box I ordered directly from Simonds all had a slight angle on the tip. Enough to pull the saw some. Not a huge deal but required a filing to square them up.

the box I had that was extremely dull with a visible burr/rolled edge was also very angled. My question is, at $200/box is it really "not a big deal" when you have to grind them down right out of the box? In my experience that lessens their lifespan drastically

[Brian_Rhoad]

Simond's had problems with their saw teeth in the 1990s. We got some that were machined offset to one side. The tooth had more meat on one side. It made the saw pull to that side. The tooth face was machined correctly. To use the teeth they needed to be swedged and side dressed to cut properly.

I would contact Simond's directly about your problems.

[moodnacreek]

It is amazing what you can get away with when you have no competition. Back when I started using chrome the longs where distorted so bad you could not fix them. Before i joined this forum there were posts here about bad Simonds teeth. They run off bad batches from time to time.  When you order ask the dealer to open the boxes and check them as he will have a beter chance to send them back than you.  I have quite a collection of saw bits mostly old stock, some in Hoe and IKS and Simonds simo brite, tungs weld and high speed steel.  Stuff from the 50's and 60's when there where 4 or 5 makers. All those old bits where made perfect. I am so glad I invested in them.  Simonds saws are the best you can get today. They cost more, you have to wait, and they must be hammered by someone else as Simonds can not finish their own product.  Never trust new saws, shanks or bits. You need to know what they should look like and how tight they should fit in your saw. I once had a mud saw given to me that would not work. The backs of the shoulders where to high. I have seen new edger saws spit the bits out in warm weather. There our always problems keeping a mill saw sawing straight, clean and cool and now we have poor supplies.

[longtime lurker]

$200 a box doesn't sound bad. I paid $1357 AUD for a box of BF 8/9 X 9/32 dominators last week. 

Probably get them in from the US over the internet cheaper but exchange rates, international shipping etc... and if you don't support the local distributor then there won't be a local distributor and they got to make a buck too. I'm a believer in paying for service and they carry them on the shelf so I don't have to think months ahead.

Got 6 weeks off the last set, that's about average. It's still far more cost effective than welded bits for dirty work.

[moodnacreek]

Simonds carbide bits here are pushing $500 a box.  There are a few other brands  around $100 cheaper but the Simonds manage to center the carbide better than some of the others. Carbide bits will last if you don't chip the corners off. They do take more power than regular or chrome.

[Ron Wenrich]

I never bought Simonds teeth until they bought out IKS and Hoe.  I always got the longs, as they had more meat on them then the standards.  I never used standalls. 

I did have a problem with teeth back in the 2000s.  They dulled really quickly.  I talked it over with the guy doing our repair work and he talked directly to the guys making the bits at Simonds.  Their problem had to do with the Rockwell rating of the steel they were using.  It was too soft.  If you get it too hard, the tooth will be brittle and hard to sharpen.

Your problem isn't with the chrome.  That just covers up the underlying steel.  The problem is the underlying steel is too soft.  Couple that with their dies being worn out and they'll have problems, which they simply pass on to you.

[moodnacreek]

I was told that the side grinding of Simonds bits was piece work. The worker has to dress the stones and this cuts into his pay. You can guess the outcome towards the end of the day. All the chrome long that I found bad where apparently formed in worn out dies. Even with swedging and side dressing I could not get them run.

[SheSaws]

I was told that the side grinding of Simonds bits was piece work. The worker has to dress the stones and this cuts into his pay. You can guess the outcome towards the end of the day. All the chrome long that I found bad where apparently formed in worn out dies. Even with swedging and side dressing I could not get them run.

You swedge your chrome teeth? I was told it's not worth swedging chrome teeth bc they can be too brittle to begin with.

On another note I switched from the 9/32 to the 5/16 which came from an older batch and were sharp out of the box and the blade is running MUCH better. I was starting to worry that my issues with blade wobble wasn't the teeth and instead an issue with the blade temper but new teeth really made a big difference so I'm def gonna blame it on the teeth.

[SheSaws]

I never bought Simonds teeth until they bought out IKS and Hoe.  I always got the longs, as they had more meat on them then the standards.  I never used standalls. 

I did have a problem with teeth back in the 2000s.  They dulled really quickly.  I talked it over with the guy doing our repair work and he talked directly to the guys making the bits at Simonds.  Their problem had to do with the Rockwell rating of the steel they were using.  It was too soft.  If you get it too hard, the tooth will be brittle and hard to sharpen.

Your problem isn't with the chrome.  That just covers up the underlying steel.  The problem is the underlying steel is too soft.  Couple that with their dies being worn out and they'll have problems, which they simply pass on to you.

I have very little experience with teeth outside of the brand and style my employer already buys, and my bosses aren't too keen on change so I just ride with it. Even getting them to acknowledge an issue with the bad teeth was a struggle.

Regarding the softness, you may be right but the fact that they come, out of the box, with a substantial rolled burr tells me in might be more than just soft steel here. Something in the mfg process changed to maybe take too much material off the tooth when they prep for shipment.

[SheSaws]

Simonds carbide bits here are pushing $500 a box.  There are a few other brands  around $100 cheaper but the Simonds manage to center the carbide better than some of the others. Carbide bits will last if you don't chip the corners off. They do take more power than regular or chrome.

Sadly with the way my logs are prepped and "scaled", I'm always gonna chip corners of teeth. They're not always fully debarked, and sometimes the log is sooooo knotty and messed up that all I do is run it through the saw to chip the whole thing. That's why my mill doesn't use carbide much anymore. The logs just aren't that good of quality and being hardwood only I run into chipped teeth on the regular. Chrome can handle a bunch of chips from what I've experienced

[SheSaws]

$200 a box doesn't sound bad. I paid $1357 AUD for a box of BF 8/9 X 9/32 dominators last week.

Probably get them in from the US over the internet cheaper but exchange rates, international shipping etc... and if you don't support the local distributor then there won't be a local distributor and they got to make a buck too. I'm a believer in paying for service and they carry them on the shelf so I don't have to think months ahead.

Got 6 weeks off the last set, that's about average. It's still far more cost effective than welded bits for dirty work.

I'm curious, have you ever compared the dominators to the stand-all? And if so what did you think? I saw exclusively hardwood and oak so I need a super durable tooth I can sharpen with a ruby wheel in my jockey (which I hate but is a whole other convo lol)

[Jeff]

Are you guys running a debarker?

[SheSaws]

Are you guys running a debarker?

Yes we have a huge debarker but sometimes my debarker operator has an off day, sometimes she doesn't get all the bark off, etc etc. we do logs that are ugly as hell and unweildy. S- shaped; rainbow shaped, big fat crotches... it all winds up on the debarker deck lol. So there's lots of bark whether I like it or not

[Jeff]

You might find interest in this. We know the struggle...
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=10976.0

[moodnacreek]

I was told that the side grinding of Simonds bits was piece work. The worker has to dress the stones and this cuts into his pay. You can guess the outcome towards the end of the day. All the chrome long that I found bad where apparently formed in worn out dies. Even with swedging and side dressing I could not get them run.

You swedge your chrome teeth? I was told it's not worth swedging chrome teeth bc they can be too brittle to begin with.

On another note I switched from the 9/32 to the 5/16 which came from an older batch and were sharp out of the box and the blade is running MUCH better. I was starting to worry that my issues with blade wobble wasn't the teeth and instead an issue with the blade temper but new teeth really made a big difference so I'm def gonna blame it on the teeth.

Contrary to popular belief you can swedge chrome bits. For years I would not buy them because I thought you couldn't.

[moodnacreek]

$200 a box doesn't sound bad. I paid $1357 AUD for a box of BF 8/9 X 9/32 dominators last week.

Probably get them in from the US over the internet cheaper but exchange rates, international shipping etc... and if you don't support the local distributor then there won't be a local distributor and they got to make a buck too. I'm a believer in paying for service and they carry them on the shelf so I don't have to think months ahead.

Got 6 weeks off the last set, that's about average. It's still far more cost effective than welded bits for dirty work.

I'm curious, have you ever compared the dominators to the stand-all? And if so what did you think? I saw exclusively hardwood and oak so I need a super durable tooth I can sharpen with a ruby wheel in my jockey (which I hate but is a whole other convo lol)

Dominators are stand-all's with a slot cut and a carbide chip brazed in.

[longtime lurker]

I don't think any commercial hardwood mill in Australia has ran on anything except tungsten carbide teeth for decades. Even the guys with wide bands. Most of what we saw is super hard and carbide has far better wear characteristics than anything else out there...  a lot of what I run on was classed as unmillable back in the days of spring set saws.

T/C doesn't sharpen up to the fine edge of steel or chrome but it holds a half decent edge way longer than anything else will. Downside is cost, and it's somewhat brittle and will chip out if it hits embedded rocks/sand, and it will occasionally throw a tooth if you plow into a knot due to the bronze weld holding the T/C to the tooth body letting go.

I'm a bit of an anomaly in that I run insert teeth on the headsaw. Most circle mills here prefer welded in teeth because they perform a lot better. I like inserts because I get a lot of embedded gravel and rock...  some of my logs come in by barge and the guys unloading just dump them off onto a gravel lot with no thought about what happens later. Being able to just replace an individual tooth without removing the saw is pretty handy given that problem.

[moodnacreek]

One problem with carbide bits is are only made in stand-all style. Many old time sawyers disliked stand-all bits but to use carbide you are stuck with them. Stand-alls are hard on shoulders and take more power.  There may still be another choice and that is tungsweld bits that I think can be special ordered. The supplier who has them I can not mention here.

[Ron Wenrich]

You can swage and hand file a chrome tooth after you knock off the chrome from the face.  I didn't swage teeth very often and didn't have many problems.  If I wrecked a tooth, it was easier to insert a good used tooth than to spend the time to bring it around to being usable.  When I was down, 4 guys were standing around.

[SheSaws]

One problem with carbide bits is are only made in stand-all style. Many old time sawyers disliked stand-all bits but to use carbide you are stuck with them. Stand-alls are hard on shoulders and take more power.  There may still be another choice and that is tungsweld bits that I think can be special ordered. The supplier who has them I can not mention here.

I don't think I'm gonna be able to talk my bosses into buying special order teeth just to try them. They've been using these stand-all chrome bits for 20* years here and they're pretty resistant to change. Not to mention we aren't looking for a nice clean finish on our pieces, they can be as rough as hell as long as they're square

[Jeff]

If'n  yer sawing and your surface is rough, in my humble opinion it means your saw ain't right, which means you ain't sawing right. Or at least as right as you could be.

[scsmith42]

One problem with carbide bits is are only made in stand-all style. Many old time sawyers disliked stand-all bits but to use carbide you are stuck with them. Stand-alls are hard on shoulders and take more power.  There may still be another choice and that is tungsweld bits that I think can be special ordered. The supplier who has them I can not mention here.

I don't think I'm gonna be able to talk my bosses into buying special order teeth just to try them. They've been using these stand-all chrome bits for 20* years here and they're pretty resistant to change. Not to mention we aren't looking for a nice clean finish on our pieces, they can be as rough as hell as long as they're square

Sometimes a vendor / manufacturer will send some free samples in order to try to land a larger sale.  You might try talking with your existing supplier to see if they would be willing to send you a set.

[moodnacreek]

I find that those who run 2 1/2 saws use only stand-all. Sawing frozen logs almost requires stand-all or frost shanks. These shanks are no longer available in the 2 1/2 [but I have them] With B or F style many use regular bits with the 'frost' or super shank. Problem is once you put in these frost, or winter or super shanks you can't really use stand-all or carbide. The chrome bits come in regular, long and stand-all. I think these where developed for wood like spruce. Chrome works as a lubricant and reduces heat on the rim of the saw that could be a problem for a mill sawing really fast in wood that saws hairy.

[SheSaws]

If'n  yer sawing and your surface is rough, in my humble opinion it means your saw ain't right, which means you ain't sawing right. Or at least as right as you could be.

Hmmm. Good thing I didn't ask for your opinion on my saw setup.

[SheSaws]

I find that those who run 2 1/2 saws use only stand-all. Sawing frozen logs almost requires stand-all or frost shanks. These shanks are no longer available in the 2 1/2 [but I have them] With B or F style many use regular bits with the 'frost' or super shank. Problem is once you put in these frost, or winter or super shanks you can't really use stand-all or carbide. The chrome bits come in regular, long and stand-all. I think these where developed for wood like spruce. Chrome works as a lubricant and reduces heat on the rim of the saw that could be a problem for a mill sawing really fast in wood that saws hairy.

I am cutting frozen logs almost exclusively all winter so that's def an issue but I am 100% certain my most recent problems were related to these *DanG teeth. I found an old box of the exact same teeth that were sharp out of the box and they cut perfect. Put some of the dull but sharpened ones on and they cut like garbage. The saw immediately started pulling away from the cant even tho they were square and sharp

[Jeff]

My comment is solid. If you have a rough cut your saw isn't sawing as good as it should be. Do you have a spider gauge to check to see if your bits and shanks are truly set square, and if they are, do the teeth need side dressed? Is your cut rough because you are slapping on the gig back? 

When you gotta deal with crap new teeth, you have to learn how to make em cut because that's what you have. If they are set correctly, sharp and straight, and your saw is sawing smooth and running true you will have more power and more production. I used a Jockey, but the file is how you get a truly sharp saw. Square things up when you have to with the jockey, but anytime you have to stop the saw for something, it doesn't take but a couple minutes to make a couple sharpening, or adjusting swipes on each tooth.

Ron didn't swage much. I did. We had a contest on here years ago on how thin you could saw. Of course the bandsaw guys could make paper, but I was right there with them on my entry. 56" f pattern saw, 9/32 simonds bits with super shanks. HATED HATED HATED standalls.

[Ron Wenrich]

I know that there were times that new teeth ran ragged.  When inspected, the teeth weren't consistent out of the box.  I could find wild teeth and get them into shape.  A spider gauge is what you need, especially for side dressing.  But, for a fast check, I would put my file across 3 tooth tips and you could find the long one pretty quick.  I also mainly hand filed.

I'm thinking that the manufacturing process involves making 5 teeth at a time.  I can't find anything on the internet to explain or show the process. 

I'd be interested in the type of operation you're in.  I'm assuming you're running an automatic mill, but would be interested in your saw type, shank type, saw speed, product sawn, etc.  The mgmt for the mills that I sawed at pretty much left me alone, and would make recommended changes as long as they were getting the production and quality they needed. 

[SheSaws]

I know that there were times that new teeth ran ragged.  When inspected, the teeth weren't consistent out of the box.  I could find wild teeth and get them into shape.  A spider gauge is what you need, especially for side dressing.  But, for a fast check, I would put my file across 3 tooth tips and you could find the long one pretty quick.  I also mainly hand filed.

I'm thinking that the manufacturing process involves making 5 teeth at a time.  I can't find anything on the internet to explain or show the process. 

I'd be interested in the type of operation you're in.  I'm assuming you're running an automatic mill, but would be interested in your saw type, shank type, saw speed, product sawn, etc.  The mgmt for the mills that I sawed at pretty much left me alone, and would make recommended changes as long as they were getting the production and quality they needed. 

I have a photo of my main saw on my profile. I am running an HMC automatic with 2 edger blades. Main saw is 660 rpm with f8 style shank and the stand all teeth I mentioned.  I'm not sure how long the track is, maybe 65ft? (Before this I worked on a manual circular mill with a chase sled). I have a 13ft carriage with 3 pneumatically controlled bunks that are connected to a manual clock and a touch screen computer. Depending on what I'm cutting I use the manual clock or the computer.

Our main product is railroad ties (8ft long), bridge Timbers, and switch ties (12ft-18ft long) and we make 1x boards, 4"x6"s and other misc custom orders. I operate the main mill at my place and there is a secondary mill that doesn't have a top saw that cuts smaller logs.

We don't really track our board footage here since that's not our main product but I run about 140 logs through my mill every day. That makes about 120-130 ties (only one tie per log as per our grading standards).

I'm also certified to grade the ties for the railroad.

I kind of got thrown into this job with very little training for this specific mill. I am currently the second most experienced sawyer here with only 1 year at this facility and only operating a manual mill before this.that said I run my mill SMOOTH and keep everything running to military standards because we have a military contract for large Timbers that requires tight tolerances. I am only of the only sawyers in my state that was able to regularly produce that consistency and quantity, I am proud to say 

[barbender]

Wow SheSaws, you find a forum on the internet that I would venture has more expert experience on Circle headrigs than anywhere else you can find, and you are going to pipe off to the owner of the Forum (who has also sawed millions of feet of lumber on a commercial mill) that you didn't ask for his opinion? In the first place, if you want to learn, you should be taking notes on his opinion- I would be. 

 The second point is, you have bad manners. If you came into my house, sat down for coffee, and started talking to me like I was a dummy, I would tell you to leave. It's no different here. 

 The Forestry Forum is a healthy place for discussion because Jeff has always demanded people treat each other respectfully. There are people that come here and hang out that have nothing to do with anything forestry related- they just enjoy the atmosphere. Contribute to that.

[SheSaws]

Wow SheSaws, you find a forum on the internet that I would venture has more expert experience on Circle headrigs than anywhere else you can find, and you are going to pipe off to the owner of the Forum (who has also sawed millions of feet of lumber on a commercial mill) that you didn't ask for his opinion? In the first place, if you want to learn, you should be taking notes on his opinion- I would be.

 The second point is, you have bad manners. If you came into my house, sat down for coffee, and started talking to me like I was a dummy, I would tell you to leave. It's no different here.

 The Forestry Forum is a healthy place for discussion because Jeff has always demanded people treat each other respectfully. There are people that come here and hang out that have nothing to do with anything forestry related- they just enjoy the atmosphere. Contribute to that.

Cool story. As a woman in this field I have learned to never bother with the unsolicited advice from a random man on the internet. Even if he does own the forum.

I am here to learn and connect but I didn't ask for advice on setting up my mill. I gave zero details that could result in useful advice anyways

[barbender]

You being a woman has zero to do with it, your attitude does. Shape up, or ship out.

[Ron Wenrich]

The last mill I ran was a Canadian Morbark, 4 headblock hydraulic/electric with a vertical edger.  We were running about 710 RPM.  I ran a B pattern saw, which has larger gullets and fewer teeth than the F pattern.  I also started on a manual mill.  I've run several manual mills for different people.



I sawed mainly grade in oak, tulip poplar, ash and a bit of white pine, walnut and hickory.  I cut a bunch of bridge timber, but that market pretty well dried up.  Blocking was ties, switch ties (10-23'), and 3 1/2 x 6".  I was doing about 2-2 1/2 MMbf annually. 

I'm not sure of locale, but in my area, the winter has been fairly mild.  You talked about frozen logs, and I'm wondering if they're frozen all the way through.  I know I would have problems if the logs were part way frozen.  Logs that laid on the ground even after things warmed up would be part way frozen. 

I'm leaning on being junk teeth. 

[SheSaws]

You being a woman has zero to do with it, your attitude does. Shape up, or ship out.

I'm not the one crying bc someone didn't kiss my feet for my unsolicited advice. Stay mad I guess.

[SheSaws]

The last mill I ran was a Canadian Morbark, 4 headblock hydraulic/electric with a vertical edger.  We were running about 710 RPM.  I ran a B pattern saw, which has larger gullets and fewer teeth than the F pattern.  I also started on a manual mill.  I've run several manual mills for different people.



I sawed mainly grade in oak, tulip poplar, ash and a bit of white pine, walnut and hickory.  I cut a bunch of bridge timber, but that market pretty well dried up.  Blocking was ties, switch ties (10-23'), and 3 1/2 x 6".  I was doing about 2-2 1/2 MMbf annually. 

I'm not sure of locale, but in my area, the winter has been fairly mild.  You talked about frozen logs, and I'm wondering if they're frozen all the way through.  I know I would have problems if the logs were part way frozen.  Logs that laid on the ground even after things warmed up would be part way frozen. 

I'm leaning on being junk teeth. 

Some of my logs this last week were def frozen pretty deep. The winter was mild up until this week but I've been seeing ice crystals inside the logs that were partially rotted so I assume the better logs have some ice inside too. Lots of ice on the tips too so I know the teeth are getting hammered but they're not standing up to the ice the way have in weeks past when we had sub-30° temps. It only makes sense the problem is the teeth because the teeth look like [I have typed a profane word that is automatically changed by the forum censored words program I should know better] right out of the box. Occum's razor says it's the obvious answer. Also the blade I am running has historically been one of my favorite blades. I was able to run it with an entire tooth, shank, and shoulder ripped off without any impact on my quality. It's a good solid blade so I really do believe the problem here is this new box of teeth. They suck!

I also looked at the dates and it seems all the boxes that are bad are 2021 and 2022 on them. I was surprised to see the dates span an entire year though

[Jeff]

You being a woman has zero to do with it, your attitude does. Shape up, or ship out.

I'm not the one crying bc someone didn't kiss my feet for my unsolicited advice. Stay mad I guess.

I would of been down right grateful to have had a resource like this when I was thrown into the fulltime headsawyer job as an 18 year old kid. I had ludstrums book in a desk drawer.  Those experiences led to the creation of this forum. Id seek out information anywhere I could get it. I remember knowing what I knew a year in.

 I still had not learned You dont know what you dont know and you better learn from everything.

I could care less what or who you are past you came to the place built FOR people like you.  You have broke several rules  on conduct and yet you are still here. Know this if or when you get banned from this resource forever, it was because you had an attitude and a foul mouth via your keyboard.

[Dave Shepard]

She clearly has a chip on her shoulder, and not of the sawdust variety. I always find it very cool to have women participating here in what is certainly a male dominated field. This is a discussion forum. People naturally want to discuss the topic at hand. It's not mansplaining. It's not talking down to anyone. Just a handful of folks who a DanG lifetime of experience in the sawbox that want to help solve a problem. Is that why you are here? To solve a problem, or to create one?

Dave, whose mother is a dairy farmer of about 55 years, which means she's also a truck driver, diesel mechanic, plumber, electrician, veterinarian, heavy equipment operator, carpenter, not to mention raised a family at the same time. You clearly want to bring gender into this discussion, but I can assure you that is pretty silly here. Would you prefer to be set straight by a female administrator? We have those here, too.

[Old Greenhorn]

SHesaws, you sound like a person that likes blunt talk, because that's what you use. So I will take that tack with you and hope you appreciate it.
First, nobody is asking you to kiss anybody's anything. We are EXPECTING you to keep a civil tongue in your head when you are writing here on the forum. If you expect everything you read here to relate specifically to your exact question and need, you might be in the wrong place. None of us were put here to serve you. The correct answer when you read something that doesn't suit your current needs is "Thank you, I hadn't considered that" and move on, or if you prefer, no answer at all. Either way, good manners go a LONG way toward learning more about what you are interested in. In NO event will any of us take guff directed at our fellow members. Jeff has worked very hard for decades to build a friendly family atmosphere where everyone is welcomed in and invited to partake, provided they abide by the very simple rules. We LIKE being here, but attitudes like yours turn folks off and they stay away. I have a family here of friends I have made around the country and the world. Many on this continent I have had the honor of shaking hands with and found them to be fine and knowledgeable folks. I enjoy their company here and especially when we have those rare get togethers, they are priceless to me as both resources and friends. Therefore, when you get nasty with them it don't sit well with me. I am sure you understand that.

You strike me as what we used to call a five twenty kind of person. That is, 5 years on the job and 20 years experience. Just being blunt. I used to be like that too when I was new (5 years) in my chosen trade. I found out real quick when I wound up in a company with a lot of highly gifted journeymen that I really didn't know squat, I was just smarter than most at my previous jobs. They took my surly attitude and said " OK, you're  smart guy, you don't need me, I'm sure you can figure it out" They never gave me another piece of advice or a helping hand after that and let me 'swing in the breeze'. It didn't take long for me to fail badly and expensively. I learned the hard way and those folks then taught me most of what I know today, after my attitude came around.

So as one of my heroes here on the forum says "You do you". But, be polite and remember, we are here because we want to be, not because anybody makes money giving away free advice that they have earned over the course of their careers. You blew off some very knowledgeable folks already, so I guess you are still in the 'don't know what you don't know' phase.

And just by the way, here's some more advice you can ignore: If you are having such an issue with those teeth why aren't you on the horn with your supplier or the manufacturer? Don't tell me it's your companies fault, YOU are the sawyer, you need to get those guys making good bits. Pick up the phone. Whining about it here won't get you good cutting tools and THAT is your problem.

With that, I am out.

[Southside]

You are blaming the debarker operator for not doing a thorough job, you are blaming your bosses for not being willing to change, you are blaming the tooth manufacturer for producing a sub par product, you are blaming the weather for being weather, you blame society and gender issues, and you snap back at people who try to help - very, very, experienced people.  Am I missing anything?  This isn't Facebook, many of us actually know each other, we call, text, visit in person across State and Country lines etc.

You really want to re-think your approach here. 

[YellowHammer]

You have a very interesting problem solving approach - ask for advice assuming you already know the answer, then insult those who chime in, especially the ones with 10X your experience base, or more.  Dubious strategy at best, and I think I can see why your bosses are not overly receptive to your ideas. 
 
Oops, sorry, more unsolicited advice from a Y chromosome. 

[SheSaws]

She clearly has a chip on her shoulder, and not of the sawdust variety. I always find it very cool to have women participating here in what is certainly a male dominated field. This is a discussion forum. People naturally want to discuss the topic at hand. It's not mansplaining. It's not talking down to anyone. Just a handful of folks who a DanG lifetime of experience in the sawbox that want to help solve a problem. Is that why you are here? To solve a problem, or to create one?

Dave, whose mother is a dairy farmer of about 55 years, which means she's also a truck driver, diesel mechanic, plumber, electrician, veterinarian, heavy equipment operator, carpenter, not to mention raised a family at the same time. You clearly want to bring gender into this discussion, but I can assure you that is pretty silly here. Would you prefer to be set straight by a female administrator? We have those here, too.

I love when a group full men tell me what is and isn't mansplaining. Please explain how diagnosing a problem without enough details that I never asked to be diagnosed is anything but mansplaining.

[SheSaws]

You have a very interesting problem solving approach - ask for advice assuming you already know the answer, then insult those who chime in, especially the ones with 10X your experience base, or more.  Dubious strategy at best, and I think I can see why your bosses are not overly receptive to your ideas. 
 
Oops, sorry, more unsolicited advice from a Y chromosome. 

I'm sorry I fail to see how "your saw needs to be tuned up" is helpful on a discussion about the dull teeth from the manufacturer. I am 100% sure making my gender known in my username is 100% the problem here. Unsurprising. And now it's a dogpile. This forum isn't a friendly place for women in this field. Thx.

[moodnacreek]

Taking side boards off a big cant to get ties on a good tight carriage and grading them is a good start.                                      I was thinking there was a new circle mill member here but it doesn't look good.

[Southside]

I am 100% sure making my gender known in my username is 100% the problem here.

You don't have a clue, not a clue as to how you have conducted yourself and the quality of people that are on here.  As an admin who knows what goes on here behind the scenes your attitude and mouth have been given a wide berth, more than a few have been kicked to  the curb for less, far less.

Since you love to wrap yourself in the cloak of the victim this will fit you well - sweetheart, it's not you - it's your personality.   

[Old Greenhorn]

And many of us here are 100% certain that your attitude is 100% of your problem. Go back and re-read your interactions here, then go read some threads from other new members with questions like yours and see how they are treated with respect to how they treat others. Hopefully you will learn and grow in your job. Brining your sex into it was entirely your choice and had no effect in anybody's responses beyond what you thought you read into them. I believe you were looking to be offended.
You do you.

[SheSaws]

Taking side boards off a big cant to get ties on a good tight carriage and grading them is a good start.                                      I was thinking there was a new circle mill member here but it doesn't look good.

Nah I don't need this nonsense. Being condescended to, told I'm making excuses when the only thing I did was give context, and then dogpiled by a bunch of men isn't my idea of a good time. No thanks. I have access to a combined 140 years of experience on my actual mill. I don't need some forum admin.

Btw these are the logs I'm "making an excuse" from

[Jeff]

Have a wonderful life, and I hope you figure out the hate you have. Bu-bye

[Old Greenhorn]

Well hey, thanks for leaving! You would probably have some. Sort of issue with the other women sawyers here had you taken the time to meet them. Good luck fixing your career limiting attitude.

[fluidpowerpro]

Just read this thread. I can't help but feeling a little sad at where it ended. It didn't have to be so bad.. One thing to remember is that when reading texts, emails, etc, its really easy to interpret something one way when the original intent was something different. It's not like taking on the phone when you hear voice inflection, etc to get a feel what's being said. 
It seems that early on some comments were made that were taken in a bad way and things quickly went south from there.
It didn't have to end this way.

[Jeff]

Yea it did. She predetermined the outcome. I found out exactly who she was, and how she feels about the world in other places than here. I'm glad she was herself right from the start so we were able to end her quickly.

Don't forget the admins usually have way more insight at things behind the scenes We have to have.

[customsawyer]

I hate it for all involved. She could have been a contributing member here. The forum could have been a great resource for her, and the company she works for. All could have won. She didn't leave the admins any options. She even received more chances than many before her. Wish her all the best in the future, but it won't be here.

[barbender]

 Honestly, I considered not even saying anything about her initial rude comment to Jeff. After all, Jeff is in charge and completely capable of handling himself. So why did I? In my experience dealing with people if you don't address issues like this right away, you get to deal with them down the line. And the problem only grows. 

 I would've much preferred she came back with a simple, "sorry." 

 

[Southside]

She actually deleted a comment she had made that foretold the future, basically said she didn't want to say where she was because being an "outspoken female" has caused her issues in the past.  Gender and being outspoken have nothing to do with the outcome, I happen to be quite vocal and extremely outspoken on a couple of matters that impact our home and business, in one case it's a very significant issue that is often in the media, our State legislature, the court system, etc, but that approach does not get transmitted here.  It was all about her attitude.  We all bring many different opinions to the table here, but the difference is we respect each other.  

[TimW]

When I saw the user name, SheSaws, I immediately thought of a person that wanted to stick out.  I have worked with her type in aviation before.  They don't last very long in aviation either.

[LeeB]

She's gone. Maybe time to let her be gone?

[barbender]

 That would be fine by me.