Saw Hammering

dgdrls · November 29, 2020, 09:12:50 PM

Teeth have to be really sharp especially for Ash if its dry.
My Lucas blades will heat a little sawing dry ash.

Did you confirm your collars are good?

D

Farm Mechanic · November 29, 2020, 09:54:27 PM

Yes, collars checked out good.

Don P · November 29, 2020, 10:24:32 PM

Look at your dust, I'd bet you slowed down and spilled fine dust out of the gullet alongside the blade and it caused friction. Ash is tough, also look at the teeth and shanks for buildup.

Farm Mechanic · November 29, 2020, 11:07:02 PM

I will check all of this hopefully tomorrow and report back. Thanks for the advice.

moodnacreek · November 30, 2020, 07:40:05 AM

Ash springs bad. Also can gum up the teeth. Do you have a sawdust conveyer of some type or really deep pit? you can't let the saw pick the sawdust back up. Sounds like you got past some of the problems and are starting to tune things in.

Farm Mechanic · November 30, 2020, 08:59:20 AM

Drag chain

Farm Mechanic · November 30, 2020, 10:49:31 AM

I did notice I guess what was guming, I didn't know what it was, the teeth weren't touching the log or the board on the back side but it was throwing dust back. Must have been guming.

moodnacreek · November 30, 2020, 12:24:15 PM

That sounds like the saw was leading in, in other words bending a little towards the log, then standing straight on the gig back leaving a little space between the saw and log. This can happen on a sawmill that is set properly for any number of reasons. The last board thickness tells the story. When sawing hardwoods, especially small dia. or poor form there is so much going on that it overwhelms the beginner who is concentrating on the basics like not sawing the dogs or getting hit in the face while trying to watch the saw line. Learning to set up a sawmill and use it takes time. Many will give up. I don't know how those not mechanically inclined can do it but you know they say you can't beat a man who won't quit.

Ron Wenrich · December 01, 2020, 10:55:36 AM

Worn trucks on a carriage can do that too. But, I'm more inclined to not enough lead. Lead is not a number etched in stone. I had one mill that needed 3/8" lead. It sounds like it is too much, but that is what it took to get the saw to saw straight. Change saws and the lead requirement might change.

Farm Mechanic · December 01, 2020, 01:26:26 PM

I think I'll check lead and try to find a straight poplar log or something soft just to check things before I go to far. The old ash log may be better served as fire wood. Thanks for the help, I'll report back.

moodnacreek · December 01, 2020, 07:01:39 PM

Quote from: Ron Wenrich on December 01, 2020, 10:55:36 AM
Worn trucks on a carriage can do that too. But, I'm more inclined to not enough lead. Lead is not a number etched in stone. I had one mill that needed 3/8" lead. It sounds like it is too much, but that is what it took to get the saw to saw straight. Change saws and the lead requirement might change.

'change saws and the lead requirement might change' I don't challenge this statement myself but I have known those who would. The lead mill that operated in this area from the mid fifties until 3 years ago [burned and rebuilt] never touched the lead after in was proven. They did have one saw they could never run. The famous Bruce Dexter said set it and forget it. I used to play with the lead all the time using poor saws. When I got hooked up with the right saw hammer man everything [except bearing heat] got straightened out. I finally got the bearing under control and I currently run 4 saws and never touch the lead.

Farm Mechanic · December 01, 2020, 08:46:24 PM

I'm still not positive I have a properly hammered saw. The 44" has been hammered twice and still will not run true. The 48" does run true but I will most likely have to replace half the teeth with worn ones due to lack of power unless I run across a power unit sooner. I wish the 44" would run true because it sawed perfectly in red oak other than the excessive wobble. I don't know what to do with it I have a good bit of money tied up in it and I hate to keep making the drive to the saw doc with no better result.

Farm Mechanic · December 01, 2020, 08:50:50 PM

I sure am glad I have you all to talk to about this. Most people my age don't know what a circular mill is let alone how to adjust, operate, trouble shoot etc.

moodnacreek · December 02, 2020, 08:26:05 AM

A big problem here is that there are so few circle saw mechanics. As in all professions just a few are very good. I believe production circle sawmills purchase more new saws than they should. It cost me time, money and frustration over a period of time to have my attitude about this. I should have learned to hammer myself when I was physically able to flip big saws over all day. But I would have never hammered enough to really get good at it. You can't do everything. There are men who can make a saw run and there are a very few who can make it look like it's not running when it is.

Farm Mechanic · December 31, 2020, 08:52:53 AM

Well I think I figured out my problem. The steel shims between the wooden husk and pillow block bearings allowed movement and the lead to decrease and caused the center to heat. I removed the shims, realigned the bearings, reset the lead and it seems to be okay. I closely monitored temperatures and the saw stayed cool the entire time however I was sawing poplar and not a crooked ash log.

moodnacreek · December 31, 2020, 12:59:47 PM

Happy new year Farm Mechanic. It is really good to read your latest post. You are one of the very few who paid attention to details and kept going forward. What you have done is what it takes to get an old sawmill sawing again. The problems you had are typical and in my mind to be expected. Hope to here from you again, Doug

Farm Mechanic · December 31, 2020, 03:14:37 PM

Thanks for the support!
The next item of business is to set up a power unit. I found a 6-71 Detroit in a Lima drag line it appears to have a reduction reversing air clutch which would be great if the rpm turns out right, still have some investigating to do on that. I feel like the 6-71 would be too much power for my set up is what deters me from this engine. I have also found a 3-53 Detroit with just a hand clutch which I would have to rig up a jack shaft and reduction pulleys to get rpm and rotation right. What are you all's thoughts?

Woodpecker52 · December 31, 2020, 04:49:33 PM

I had a 671 Detroit diesel on a corley circle mill about 35 years ago. Plenty of power and easy to understand, never gave me a bit of trouble, in fact it still powers the mill which is down the road about 5 miles. After reading all the posts about saw wobble, blade hammering and mandrel collars I am glad I just have to flip a lever and pop a new band blade on my woodmizer and get back to cutting logs.

dgdrls · December 31, 2020, 05:19:59 PM

I think a 353 would be a little under-powered, rated at 70 HP continuous duty,

Glad you found your gremlin,

Happy New Year

D

moodnacreek · December 31, 2020, 06:11:17 PM

I am thinking the 3-53 turned around and belted to a shaft connected to your mandrel would do if the max. torque rpm matched the mandrel [hammered speed] you need. That way you get all the power the engine has.

Farm Mechanic · December 31, 2020, 06:15:49 PM

What are the disadvantages of too much power such as the 6-71?

moodnacreek · December 31, 2020, 07:35:10 PM

Them normal answer to that question is, like a dragster, no such thing as too much power. With the 6-71 you want the spec's for that serial range. Somewhere it will tell you how slow it can be run [like all day]. So we as always need that 'hammered rpm' while the big engine is running at that low, if recommend, speed. Because it will use less fuel and make less noise.

Ron Wenrich · January 01, 2021, 10:52:05 AM

We ran a 671 on a Jackson portable and we ran a hydraulic unit off of it. The hydraulics were used to run the edger. Hydraulics can also be used to run off bearers, automated dumps, green chains, blowers, dust drags, etc. Depends how efficient you want to be.

I also ran a mill with a 371. It had adequate power for the mill and what we were sawing. But, there wasn't any excess power for other operations.

mike_belben · January 01, 2021, 11:07:13 AM

The 671 costs more to overhaul but like ron said youve got a whole mess of auxiliary ponies for blower, greenchain, turner etc.

Farm Mechanic · January 01, 2021, 06:05:46 PM

Good points!

I might add that the unit is already on a skid with radiator aux hydraulic pump and air compressor. Not sure if any of that works but it's there. I think after reading your all's comments the 6-71 makes more sense, even though it is over kill for what I'm doing now if I ever add or upgrade the mill I will already have the power.