Norse/Igland or Farmi/Wallenstein style?

[g_man]

John I am curious why you say you would not be happy with a JL290 and how do you know that ? What would I gain if I went bigger (351) on my L3010. The 290 is all I have ever used on that tractor so I'm looking for your insight. I have posted enough stuff using it so I assume you have a fair idea of how my set-up works.

gg  

[John Mc]

John I am curious why you say you would not be happy with a JL290 and how do you know that ? What would I gain if I went bigger (351) on my L3010. The 290 is all I have ever used on that tractor so I'm looking for your insight. I have posted enough stuff using it so I assume you have a fair idea of how my set-up works.

gg  

You are right, I don't know about the 290. I have never used one. I was basing it on the recommendation of the sales guy, based on his experience. I've also felt that the pulling power of the winch I do have (which matches the Farmi 351) is a good match for the size and weight of my tractor.
With the filled tires and various things I've added to my tractor, I'm at a bit over 4000# before I put the winch on the back. I've never dragged my tractor or broken anything on it while winching. I have managed to stall the winch on occasion. I don't think I've ever maxed out the available HP. (I have never understood why winch manufacturers rate their winches for a tractor HP, with no reference to tractor size/weight.)
On the other hand, I've seen what you do with your tractor - you've done a lot more with your rig than I have with mine, so it seems clear you are not limited by your set-up.
In retrospect, it would have been more accurate for me to say that I'm happy with the match between my winch and my tractor, and leave it at that.

[dustintheblood]

For what it's worth, I have had an Igland since 2001 and it's been pretty much bulletproof.  Some repairs, but mostly cause of my own dumb choices in the bush.  Would absolutely recommend.

That said, I helped a buddy drop a few high risk stems the other day and he had a Wallenstein.  Holy crap it was sweet. Nice rig indeed.

No matter what you go with, go with remotes.  I wish I had.  So many times I cursed the walk of shame back and forth, back and forth when it could have been the push of a button.  Pay up front with some cash, or pay over and over again with lost productivity and grief.

[dustintheblood]

Farmi 501 behind a 90hp Case, but you get the idea.  I watched a video we're a guy was going on about using the lower pulley every hitch as the only way to do it.  I've run this since 2000 use the top pulley 95% of the time until I'm hooking up a tree just to the hook, then I draw it in with the lower pulley. Or if I have to give a tree a pull I go through the lower pulley and lock it.

Woodfarmer, you running some good Case iron???  I have a 1494 with canopy for skidding, and a new 75C for the forwarder (with bluetooth hahahahhaha)

[47sawdust]

 dustintheblood,

I have wireless remote and hydraulic outfeed pulley on my Krpan.
You have to upgrade in winch weight and $$$$$$ beyond what the OP has in mind.
I have never regretted the winch upgrade, the remote has saved a lot of trips back to the tractor.

Krpan winch part 1(1) - YouTube

[Woodfarmer]

Farmi 501 behind a 90hp Case, but you get the idea.  I watched a video we're a guy was going on about using the lower pulley every hitch as the only way to do it.  I've run this since 2000 use the top pulley 95% of the time until I'm hooking up a tree just to the hook, then I draw it in with the lower pulley. Or if I have to give a tree a pull I go through the lower pulley and lock it.

Woodfarmer, you running some good Case iron???  I have a 1494 with canopy for skidding, and a new 75C for the forwarder (with bluetooth hahahahhaha)

Straight 6 Cummins in my tractor, there will never be a better motor.

[thecfarm]

That will pull some wood!!
If others are reading this and thinking about getting a winch, just do it.
Yes, they are on the pricey side now, but will last for years. As I said, I had mine since, 1993, used hard for 3-4 years, but gets used a lot now for firewood. 
A guy and his son at work kept asking me about a winch. Finally they bought one. They both said, they love it. I use to tell the son, within hearing distance of his Father, make sure the winch is in the will for you.  ;D 
They were BIG snowmobile people. I would say, Forget the sleds, you want the winch. The winch will outlast the sled.

[g_man]

When looking for a winch one thing that is hard to grasp is how much it will pull. They rate the various size winches by pulling power. It naturally gives one the impression that if he puts a 10,000 lb winch on his 30 hp tractor he will pull 10,000 lbs if he can keep the tractor stationary some how. But that is not how it works. The pull you get on the line is determined by the amount of torque your pto can provide. It has nothing to do with the size of the winch. A 10,000 lb winch means that it is rugged enough to handle 10,000 lb pulls and the clutch will hold at that force - That is all it means. Think of it like a truck - the tractor is the motor and the winch is the clutch/transmission. The transmission part is a fixed chain driven gear set set that drives the drum full of cable. If the gearing and drum size on all winches were the same, then any tractor would produce the same cable pull no matter what winch it was hooked to. All based on the torque provided by the tractor. BUT the gearing is not all the same. The larger the winch the higher the gearing and everyone knows you get less torque to the wheels using a higher gear. So putting a larger winch on a given tractor will not give you more line pull it will likely give you less. For example - Think about just the drum size. The drum size gets bigger with a bigger winch. You need more torque on a big drum to produce a certain cable pull than on a smaller drum to produce the same pull. 

Other things - How much you can pull is limited to how heavy your tractor is and how good you are able to set it so the blade will dig in. Big winches are heavier which lighten your front end more. You can't generally pick up big winches a high as smaller ones because the the lower link connection points are higher. This makes working with big logs tougher and reduces ground clearance.

End of sermon,

gg

[wisconsitom]

Sermon appreciated.  I've learned a lot in this thread, and first and foremost, that I'm going to try to get one of these things in the fairly near future.  Obviously something that can help me manage my property.

In the meantime, there's life, with it's often surprising demands, which for me suddenly are, a mother that is going into hospice, and a wife in need of a decent car.  I'll get back to this in good time.  Thanks all.

[mike_belben]

Sorry to hear about those things tom.  


In the meanwhile i bet youll find that for pennies on the dollar, you can weld up something light and simple have a cheap used electric winch on back to go have fun in the woods and destress.  

I got another chinese 9k yesterday in a junk trade that i had around $200 cash into, abd it came with a free cherokee on 33" maxxis mud tires with nice rims.  

Old stick welder cables, some lugs, an anderson connector, and $75 for a contactor and wireless remote. Go pull wood.

When times change and you save up enough for the real winch, guarantee the homemade electric attachment is worth $500. 

[Rhodemont]

I run a Norse 350 (30-60Hp) on my JD4720 (50Hp at PTO).  I am very happy with what it does for me.  I had considered the bigger 450 (40-90Hp) but am glad I did not.  Couple minor tings have happen, I broke off the lever to engage/disengage the brake  and had to weld it back on (actually there was not much weld on there to start but there is now), the pull rope to activate the winch occasionally comes off the spring loaded pully so I have to take off the cover plate and put it back on, I have bent some of the chain notches on the blade while skidding a big log and catching on a rock so have straightened them but now only use those notches for small firewood that will be well off the ground and all big stuff on the cable (which is nice because the high pulley helps get them way up off the ground).  I do use a fixed snatch block pretty often with a nylon lift strap rather than chain to wrap around the anchor tree.  Yep adds walking but better than getting hung up and having to bull the log out.  Are others better?  Maybe, but this is what I have so it is as good as it gets.

[wisconsitom]

Help me understand the reason self-releasing snatch blocks are so often recommended.  First, what are they?  Do they release when the log gets to them, and how is this advantageous?  Reason I ask is I see they're expensive whereas just regular snatch blocks are cheap.  Keep in mind, this is all hobby logging.  Thnx

[g_man]

Help me understand the reason self-releasing snatch blocks are so often recommended.  First, what are they?  Do they release when the log gets to them, and how is this advantageous?  Reason I ask is I see they're expensive whereas just regular snatch blocks are cheap.  Keep in mind, this is all hobby logging.  Thnx

You got the right idea. Her is a short video of one working.


Automatic Brake Mod on Farmi JL501 Winch - YouTube


They are a time saver and a step saver. They are also much quicker and easier to set up because of the open face. With a standard block you get the log(s) to the block then have to walk down, unhitch the block , walk back the tractor, then pull the log(s) the rest of the way.
They are pricey and everyone thinks different on that. Plus depending on your lot and how you work you may or may not use a block much. What I would suggest is to get a standard block. Go to work and develop your style or system and then decide if a self -release block is worth it to you.

I use mine a lot on my lot. But I used a standard block for a lot of years before I shelled out for a self-releaser.

gg

[wisconsitom]

Great help as always sir and yes, sometimes I can miss the obvious!  Reckon I'll take your advice and buy the inexpensive TS unit, then see how long before I get sick of all that walking.😓

Yeah, I sweat out in the woods in the winter...

[John Mc]

Help me understand the reason self-releasing snatch blocks are so often recommended.  First, what are they?  Do they release when the log gets to them, and how is this advantageous?  Reason I ask is I see they're expensive whereas just regular snatch blocks are cheap.  Keep in mind, this is all hobby logging.  Thnx

Gordon's video gives you a good idea. If you are pulling in straight lines in relatively open settings, you might get by without them. Since my woods are crowded, hilly, and nothing seems to be in a straight line, I use mine all the time to redirect logs when snaking them out of the forest or to prevent a log from rolling down a side hill.

In fact, I own two of them. I occasionally use both on longer pulls. Sometimes, I'll use the first one to put a dogleg in my pull to get the logs out of the forest, then use the second to re-align the logs parallel to and alongside the trail once they are out.

I don't use it every time I'm working with the winch, but owning one is kind of like owning a logging winch: if you have any use for it at all, once you actually use one, you won't be without it. As Gordon said, a non-releasing snatch block will give you a good idea of whether your situation calls for using a snatch block to redirect logs. If you do much of it, a self-releasing snatch block is a godsend.

[Hilltop366]

I don't have one but even a regular one would be handy once in a while for me, if you are only using it to remove a tree here and there and not a bunch of pulls in the same place a regular block will be good. You will have to stop and go release the cable but even if you have a self release you will still have to go get it if only pulling once from that location.

On occasion I have used a slider to redirect a log that is caught on something but doing this is hard on the cable.

[mike_belben]

you still have to walk back to retrieve your block so the saved steps is actually just a case of less frusteration causing you to lose count how many trips to the block.  with a double capture block you could make the same amount of steps by simply retrieving it when you walk over to unshackle it.  there is really nothing saved if using only 1 block.  


i tend to redirect around a stump.  if there isnt a stump, there is always a little crap tree that should be removed so i will make a high stump for the cable, then just drape the cable around it and pull.   but i also use a remote control DC winch and sometimes tongs, so i just walk with the log most of the time and dont have to pace back and forth as much.  i have a good block and dont remember the last time i brought it out with me actually.

[g_man]

When I cut this patch I left the snatch block in the same place the hole time. Saved quite a few steps and a ton of time opening and closing blocks.

It's way steeper than it looks just below the tractor.



 



 

gg

[mike_belben]

multiple drags past the turn is undeniably the place for a self release.  no argument there.  

[wisconsitom]

Alright all, thanks.  I'll start simple and see where it goes.

This is all really next winter kind of thing.  No winch yet, I like to plan ahead!

[wisconsitom]

Seen where some guys cut the top and bottom off plastic barrels, then cut these in half the vertical way, and use on bumper trees they don't want to scuff.

[bitternut]

That's a darn good idea. I just happen to have a few of those 55 gal plastic barrels and a couple tight turns on one of my main trails where that would work fine. Thanks for the tip.

[PoginyHill]

I have a self-releasing snatch block. I probably allow it to self release about half the time. Much of the time I'll release the cable and retrieve it just before the logs hit it. I don't use mine as extensively as GG does. It does make for easy hook up compared to a fixed one. My woods roads are laid out such that I can get a straight pull to the tractor almost every time. I might use the block one out of 20 pulls.

I think I use it more often to offset a blowdown from the frozen up-right root ball so I don't need to move the tractor. I align the tractor for a straight pull parallel to the tree stem. Depends on what I'm able to hitch it to, I might allow it to self release and do an un-interrupted pull or I will release it once it has cleared the root ball.

[g_man]

Lots of time today with this warm rainy weather - thinking about snatch blocks. Like PoginyHill and J mac say, once you have one you will use it more and more to make things easier and a lot depends on your lot terrain. I have a lot of trails that are narrow shelves cut into side hills. Even turning sideways can be a problem. Here is a set-up with a standard block. The cable angle shows how steep it is. I pulled a half dozen trees up thru here.



 



 

You can see I used to use a large shackle. It's a small point but I used a big shackle to make it easier with winter gloves on and big things are easier to find when you drop them in the snow. If you are working in snow stay away from having to use small pins and the like to set up your block. And even better than a shackle, which I had to take apart in order to swing open the block, would have been some kind of hook - much easier. The best, by far, block set up I have used so far are like this.



 



 

You just put a strap on a tree and hang the block off of it. Nothing to take apart and drop in the snow trying to work with gloves on. I made this one but some blocks like Ingland  come this way. I have a 4', 6', and 8" strap which I use alone or two together. Sometimes a suitable tree is not exactly near where you need the block to be.

gg

[PoginyHill]

@g_man  where can I get that doohickie you wrap the strap around that is pinned to your snatch block? I like that you can wrap the strap around the tree without having to man-handle the pulley around the tree and through the strap loop. Or is that what you made yourself?