About 7 months into Wood Mizer LT 50 order

[SawyerTed]

I placed the order for the new mill in January 2022.   Carolina Saw and Service, WoodmizerASC/Dealer just called a little while ago.  My saw is the next one on their list.  That's not nationwide, just their list.  So mine should come soon.  

It's getting close now, maybe a month if I behave myself!   :D

In some ways the delay has been positive.  I did a major primary bath and bedroom renovation and several other much needed jobs around home.  Plus after November 2021 knee surgery, it has had time to heal completely.   

I'm still getting calls from customers holding off on cutting trees until I'm ready to run!

[SawyerTed]

BTW, anyone with an order should be able to call Woodmizer HQ or their dealer for updates.  They just don't update customers until the scheduling of manufacturing of the specific mill. I received a call in May. "Do you still want the mill?  Is there anything you want/need to change before the manufacturing starts?"  

I've called every 2 months since January'23 to get updates.  

Looks like 80 weeks is par for 50s and 70s ordered in fall 2021-Spring 2022.  

[tacks Y]

Well the new LT70 on Brightstar loaded w/17hrs went for $110k, so I guess it pays to play the market.  There are 3 used 70s and a big Cooks next week. The older mills did so so. 

[OlJarhead]

For the last 9 months I've been ordering tools and supplies for a major project (think billions in funding) and can yell you it's much worse than you think.

The shutdown caused major issues that we are a long way from overcoming. 

Tool manufacturers can't get parts to make tools you need to make the stuff you are trying to make, they cancel a design they can't make, develooe a new one and try to make it which results in back orders.  Lead times extend.

You can't count on getting bolts and nuts, ppe, etc and have to spend time researching new alternatives, meanwhile thise new sources get hammered and lead times extend.  It's horrible folks.

 Never again!

Heck, throw in free money and people who don't want to work and good luck with that deadline.

[OlJarhead]

I should add that I do empathize with yours and others plight but the problem isn't companies like WM.  

It's smack dab in the middle of big government everywhere.   

[Southside]

Never again is about to happen. Got an email from a supplier warning me about the potential UPS strike and how it will impact product delivery. 

[OlJarhead]

Thats different in that at least there are alternatives but when the entire economy shuts down and you lay people to stay home you get a mess that will take at least a generation to overcome

[SawyerTed]

Don't forget that one state that is independent of the power grid had a polar freeze that shut down a major segment of the petrochemical industry.  

That unplanned shutdown due the power outages and sub freezing temperatures also trickled down through the supply chain. 

[Crossroads]

Called for an update today and was told that I should get a production call in the next month or two. 

[MoHardWood]

I see someone selling a new 70, of course the price is 120k. I see another brand new 70 at auction in the next couple weeks.

Some some are buying to sell.

I think I saw the same auction. Was pretty frustrating to see the auction images taken at the woodmizer facility in indiana. Been waiting on mine Since May of 2022. I've seen at least 6 auctions this year with images taken at a woodmizer facility. If people are intending on reselling these things why fill their orders?

[MoHardWood]

Called for an update today and was told that I should get a production call in the next month or two.

I was told the same thing back in February. Called again last week and was told they don't have a date but it should be in a month or two. 
I don't get it. Unknown lead times and supply chain issues haven't worked in my industry since 2021. Poor production planning and a weak supply chain seems to be common in the construction world

[fluidpowerpro]

My dad use to say that "the squeaky wheel gets the grease". 
Maybe your not squeaking enough.....

[barbender]

 Do we really want Woodmizer to start determining who needs their mill the worst, and shuffling their production schedule to suit? I detest the speculators that are screwing up the supply of mills as much as anyone. But if they put down their deposit and pay in full upon receipt, I don't see what Woodmizer is supposed to do about it.

[Nodak Andy]

It's not woodmizer, but it makes me happy.  Got a call today from Magnum Trucking, they will be delivering my Woodland Mills HM130max on thursday afternoon.  Ordered it on the 18th of July. 

I would love to get a WoodMizer, but where I live it just doesn't make sense to spend that much on a mill.  Maybe after Gamestop goes to the moon and I get to retire young I'll move to a state that doesn't have a telephone pole listed as it's state tree and then i'll get a WoodMizer.

[Resonator]

a state that doesn't have a telephone pole listed as it's state tree

I laughed when I read that. ;D
I worked around the oil fields back in '14, and the only trees I seen were ones that had been planted in a row around the farmhouses as windbreaks.

[MoHardWood]

Do we really want Woodmizer to start determining who needs their mill the worst, and shuffling their production schedule to suit? I detest the speculators that are screwing up the supply of mills as much as anyone. But if they put down their deposit and pay in full upon receipt, I don't see what Woodmizer is supposed to do about it.

I don't know, I am new here and don't know much about the issues Woodmizer seems to be facing. I'm a manufacturer, I don't understand how you can not have a known lead time or estimated production estimate.
I saw similar distribution problems start in 2021 that carried into 2022 with equipment manufacturers like Cat and John Deere. They changed their distribution method and limited the amount of equipment each dealer could sell and/or lease until they were able to increase production. They started canceling orders for dealers that violated the lease agreement. 

[fluidpowerpro]

Exactly!, Someone there has a plan and knows what's being built when.
As far as being a squeaky wheel. I'm not saying to be rude and a royal pain, but to ask reasonable questions like what parts are you waiting for? When do you think they will arrive?
When I worked in industrial distribution, I know my customers would not accept open ended responses. Especially when we were already past what we quoted as the lead time.
As far as who gets their mill with the materials they have on hand. I wouldnt assume that the squeaky wheels arent getting some kind of consideration. It's only human nature to try to keep your best customers/dealers happy.

[SawyerTed]

Called both the dealer and Indy this afternoon.

I received no firm information.  People on the phones just said "I don't have anything firm to tell you."  

[Southside]

Any chance you all who know how to fix this could just go ahead and get it done for the rest of us? I have some milk processing equipment I really need. It's just some stainless steel, a couple of heaters, pumps, and chart recorders so I am sure it can be whipped up over the weekend. Be sure to have all the 3A certificates in place and other regulatory requirements for me. Really appreciate it.

[SawyerTed]

If it were an easy fix it would be done.  

Lots of factors involved.   My last post was 
mostly informational, but there's some frustration developing. 

Being told August when I called in June with some authority then being told now "nothing firm" is frustrating.

78 weeks and counting 

[Old Greenhorn]

................ I'm a manufacturer, I don't understand how you can not have a known lead time or estimated production estimate....................

I worked in manufacturing my entire career before retiring in June of 2020. Just enough time to see some of the supply chain issues coming out of the COVID debacle. Even without a pandemic I have seen several such issues because we live in a global economy these days and 'stuff' comes from all over.
An example, the last company I worked for made, as one of their products hydraulic rigs that would run networks of tools for manufacturing facilities making trains, planes, heavy trucks, and large trailers. At our plant we made all these rigs and tools, but we vended out a lot of sub-builds and focused on  final assembly testing, development, packing and shipping, and the high precision machining on our tools. So for this rig, which sold for about $30k, we would job out the control boxes to a local electrical wiring and assembly shop who specialized in that sort of thing made to our design with parts we spec'ed out. Pumps were bought from a known world class builder of those, motors from another well know manufacturer of those, and we built up all the units to our design and tested them all before crating and shipping.
So all is going good and our people are building rigs right along and then all of a sudden we aren't getting our control boxes on time. A call tells us they are having trouble getting spools of the wire we required and have long lead times. They have 50 boxes waiting for wire (about 2 months of planned builds for us). We give them a little time, then call again and ask for more details. They say their distributer can't get the wire, so we start calling our own deeper networks of contacts stateside and abroad. Turns out nobody can get that wire, it is made by one company in Italy. They can't make wire because they are having a hard time getting the Teflon they need for the durable jacket, which is why we spec'ed that wire in the first place. So do we wait, or do we ditch our design and get cheaper wire? The cheaper wire will give us problems for years with early failures and customer complaints, which is why we use the best wire we can get for the job. So we wait, and complain and look for other sources or EQUAL substitutes. It all takes time. And this whole scenario happened before COVID was even a word we all knew. Do you think the folks who answered customer calls about delays knew that the wire folks in Italy couldn't get Teflon? No, probably not. After COVID, things got really nuts with foundries and casting houses shutting down all operations under their state's emergency declarations, which nearly shut us down for a while and we had to shift focus to other products we could make to get customers up and running. It did get ugly and some of that residue remains yet.
So yeah, I get it. WM would like nothing more than to simply have the problem of not being able to build machines fast enough. Instead they are probably in 'choke and puke mode' where they look at the parts they can get or have in stock and figure out which machines they can build and ship. In the meantime, they have a load of 80% assembled machines taking up expensive floor and work space while they wait for engine builders to get some silly part they are waiting on to build and ship complete engines. There is nothing more frustrating for a manufacturer than that, they are not in a happy place, that is for certain.


I feel for you Ted, it can't be easy on you and I know you are chomping at the bit now just cursing lost work hours. I would be too. But having been in their shoes, or shoes just like them, I am betting they are doing what they can with what they've got. To get things moving, they would have to make some extraordinary changes that might affect their quality, like taking in and using substitute parts. I don't think anybody wants to see that, or get engines they didn't order. Then you would really have a nightmare and their rep would be shot.

[SawyerTed]

Tom, you are spot on! I do understand the situation having taken decades to get to this point.  In my adult life I've seen globalization go from bad to good to bad again.  

On top of that, pandemic, low interest rates and polar freeze in the Deep South have contributed to this.  

What's worse is I created some of my frustration.

Customer focus has also given way to supplier focus by necessity.

[Old Greenhorn]

Any chance you all who know how to fix this could just go ahead and get it done for the rest of us? I have some milk processing equipment I really need. It's just some stainless steel, a couple of heaters, pumps, and chart recorders so I am sure it can be whipped up over the weekend. Be sure to have all the 3A certificates in place and other regulatory requirements for me. Really appreciate it.

SS, you are funny. :D :D Perfect sarcasm, that, and very pointed. Well done. ;D
 Actually, when I was working, these types of things were what I did better than anyone. One of those major crisis problems that stumped just about everyone and had all the suits having back to back meetings wringing their hands and throwing them up in the air, exhausting all their stupid 'solutions' and then call me in as a last resort figuring I could be the guy they blamed it all on when it was done. I would jump into it like a man at war,  drive wherever, get on planes, fly wherever, talk to the people on the ground doing the work, finding the real issues rather than what made it's way through a series of 'managers' and then examine the minute details, look for options, pare those down into something do-able, and offer solutions and work arounds. It was always very intense and very high stress and I loved it as long as it was short periods of a year or less. Usually solutions turned out not to be as drastic as everyone expected and problems were often complicated by inaccurate communications by non-technical folks which persisted until abated. I was good at it because I loved it and I never gave up. Accomplishing something everybody before me failed at was always the biggest rush.
 Yeah, maybe I could help these guys a little, but not a lot. They have had plenty of time to figure it out, and if they have not, I assume there is a good reason for that. I have confidence in WM to do their best as they know it. Your processing equipment guy, well, not so much. :D

[stavebuyer]

I think manufacturers are all benefitting, experiencing record margins and have zero incentive to make less money by producing more. Blame the pandemic and cash the checks.

[barbender]

Well here's a story from the flip side of this. My BIL works for an ice fishing "castle" manufacturer, they are basically campers with all the bells and whistles that are pulled out on the frozen lakes in winter, to fish out of. Well during Covid, sales that were already hot went through the roof. They opened 2 additional plants to keep up with demand. Well now they had to close those plants and lay a bunch of people off as the demand dropped like a rock. They may have put themselves in a situation that they don't survive as a company because they tried to match the boom.