President Trump issues Executive Order addressing Lumber Production

[SwampDonkey]

There are steel components for sure and a steel framed roof over the Brock Commons Tallwood House.

Brock Commons Tallwood House

Canada Earth Tower

[Larry]

I think the steel your seeing is scaffolding, connectors, and temporary supports which get pulled. A lot of the wood is cross laminated timbers (clt's). I milled a trailer load of big clt cutoffs from one of the first buildings the UofA built to use them on some kind of deck.

[rusticretreater]

I think its more on the line of Trump knows some industry bigwigs who have been getting hammered by current market conditions.  Steel, lumber, auto, etc.  You make the decisions on how to get these industries healthy again without fighting congress, the libs and enviros and the lobbyists.  Trump is limited in his powers to do things but also quite powerful in many ways. He is also an experienced fella who knows how to get things done.

The recipe is always the same, eliminate some competition, drop restrictive regs and policies, level the playing field and then wait for the market forces to respond.  The change is painful for everyone.  People will pull back and consider their alternatives.  But they will eventually have to make a decision on who to purchase from.

The end result, if it can be achieved is good from the viewpoint of increased control over supply and quality but also in the many employment opportunities as businesses come back to life.  But this also reaches further into the economy as the suppliers of the equipment needed, the parts manufacturers and raw material producers also have an upswing in outlook.  And that spurs investment. 

[Ron Wenrich]

Housing starts:  https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/HOUSTNSA

They're also finding that laminated wind turbine blades last longer, are cheaper, and are recyclable when compared to composite blades.  I think that there may be a lot more markets for engineered wood.  Do they require higher quality of wood or can they be manufactured from lower quality? 

[SwampDonkey]

Same data I see, only I got mine direct from the US Census Bureau. They show a line or bar chart of the data with a mouse click.  And we all know a lot of units never even sold in down swings, or people lost them long before they were paid for. About 4-7 years is usually a down turn. You can see the evidence of down swings in that chart alone in plain site.

[SwampDonkey]

Here's the materials page of the Canada Earth Tower.

https://structurecraft.com/materials

[Ianab]

I think that there may be a lot more markets for engineered wood.  Do they require higher quality of wood or can they be manufactured from lower quality?

One advantage of engineered wood is that it's generally stronger than a single piece. Reason is that a defect only affects one lamination, and the other 10 or 20 layers, although they may also have defects, they aren't lined up with each other. Think like plywood, every layer need not be perfect, but as a whole the sheet is sound. 

There is also optimizer / finger jointing systems that effectively manufacture defect free wood from less than perfect stock. And those can then be laminated into larger items, AND be free of any defects. 

Wind turbine blades are more like an aircraft wing, and those have been made using wood, basically since airplanes were invented. Take the WW2 Mosquito as an example. It's 90% balsa and birch ply, and was one of the best aircraft of the era. Ironically, balsa and birch are woods that NZ would import small amounts of, to rebuild Mosquito aircraft... 

So yes, there is plenty of potential for advanced uses for wood products. 

I guess the thing is it will take investment to develop. And for private companies to invest in something, they need a stable commercial environment, because it's likely to be years before the new venture starts turning a profit (or even gets built). Currently with the tariffs swinging between yes and no every week, how the heck do you create a business plan with that going on? I know the plan is to create more demand for locally produced products, and boost Govt tax income. But would you sign on the dotted line with the current flip / flop of policy?

Removing some of the red tape and compliance costs however seems a move in the right direction. If the cost of production in the US is decreased, that naturally makes the imports less attractive, and overall reduces the prices, improves demand. Just need to be careful not to swing the needle too far, then you get pillage and burn operations / waterway problems etc, that give loggers a bad name. 

[240b]

after typing out my thoughts earlier and they becoming lost in the computer.  i basically came to the conclusion. I would like to see the export of raw logs to anywhere outside the us made illegal.  And i say this as someone whos entire production either goes in conexs to china or on trucks to canada. 
    the production of  timber and wood products should be regarded as a strategic asset for the country.
     the ownership of the facilities processing the material should also be owned solely by citizens of this country.
   this should also be the case for food
processing. 
    yes, im willing to cut my nose off to spite my face. 

[quilbilly]

A strategic reserve for what exactly? Whats the strategy? It's not like timber is an asset for plane production like it used to be, I'm not exactly sure what you're saving for. We have it and plenty of it to satisfy both domestic and export demand, there's no reason not to take advantage of that. It's also a renewable resource so it not like if we cut it , it won't come back

[Mooseherder]

I think the strategy right now is stop all the previous whatevers to find out who is getting taken advantage of.  As of this moment, we are currently the only Country being taxed unfairly. 
Fair and reciprocal treatment is a reasonable review.  This is the negotiating.

[nativewolf]

https://u.osu.edu/forest/2025/03/07/where-will-the-trees-come-from-how-tariffs-and-new-policies-mean-big-changes-on-federal-forests/

Brent Sohngen is a prof of resource economics at Ohio State.  His take, he ignores hardwoods and is just focused on softwoods.  He's also ignored substitution and SYP vs SPF.  SYP started trading on the Chicago Board for the first time ever, that was historic and should do much to develop a better commodity market for SYP products.  

[nativewolf]

after typing out my thoughts earlier and they becoming lost in the computer.  i basically came to the conclusion. I would like to see the export of raw logs to anywhere outside the us made illegal.  And i say this as someone whos entire production either goes in conexs to china or on trucks to canada. 
    the production of  timber and wood products should be regarded as a strategic asset for the country.
    the ownership of the facilities processing the material should also be owned solely by citizens of this country.
  this should also be the case for food
processing. 
    yes, im willing to cut my nose off to spite my face. 

So no trade across country borders at all?  Nobody in China should buy USA agricultural products?  No American cars sold in Mexico.  Walmart should not be doing business in Mexico?  Mars should not sell chocolate in Germany?  KFC should be banned from China?

We are talking about something that is not strategic at all, the modern version of the buggy whip.  Sales are falling year over year and pricing is terrible, what's strategic? 

[nativewolf]

I think the strategy right now is stop all the previous whatevers to find out who is getting taken advantage of.  As of this moment, we are currently the only Country being taxed unfairly.
Fair and reciprocal treatment is a reasonable review.  This is the negotiating.

Who is taxing us unfairly?  Who is being taken advantage of when there is trade?  If someone were being taken advantage of they would not be buying or selling.  The USA is considered a fairly unfriendly country to deal with by many.  Scandinavian and Asian countries are viewed as more business friendly.  Now we are insulting our neighbors and threatening them.  Put yourself in the shoes of a neighbor that just had someone start insulting him in front of his family, threatening to take property, to commit violence.  Would you negotiate with such a neighbor or do everything possible to have nothing to do with them?  

Threatening people you trade with is generally not a positive for long term relations.   Threatening and insulting them....hmm

[240b]

first, I never said strategic reserve, and the word strategic was probably the wrong word to use
  probably closer to national asset,
raw materials which could be used to fuel a local economy.   
    why export raw materials when a country could sell manufactured goods?
    you gotta remember im a simpleton no mba here.

[240b]

ive not read the article from ohio stTe 
yet  
  but im curious as to what percent of the total volume on hardwood logs on the market actually come from federal 
lands?
   softwood can be grown anywhere in  north america.  high quality hardwood 
not so much. 
   a a realistic rotation length for northern New England is 130 to 150 years.   

[Mooseherder]

Probably the best time for corrections while the market is depressed before moving forward.  Let them kick and scream because it was their system that got us here.  Nobody is against fair trade.  This is the start of a Golden Age. Great for everyone. The Markets will correct and growth cures all the wounds.

[SwampDonkey]

Looks a lot like what Roosevelt would say during the depression years, try something, if that doesn't work try something else. I follow a lot of economists who call it desperation in the decline. Interesting times.

[Larry]

Urgent Update on Chinese Log Import Suspension and NHLA Statement

Dear NHLA Members, China's General Administration of Customs (GACC) has suspended the importation of U.S. logs effective March 4, 2025, as per Announcement No. 29. While GACC has not officially confirmed any exemptions, industry sources indicate that log shipments in transit with a Phytosanitary Certificate (PC) issued before March 4 may still be accepted—but this remains unverified. Immediate Action Required: APHIS Beijing is compiling a list of impacted shipments to submit to GACC for potential entry clearance. If you have log shipments currently in transit to China, you must submit the following details to APHIS.Beijing.China@usda.gov as soon as possible: ✔ Phytosanitary Certificate Number ✔ Date of Departure ✔ Estimated Arrival Date ✔ Port of Destination in China ✔ Vessel Name (Optional)

This is a email I got from the NHLA a few days ago. They have also sent out alerts about the impact of tariffs.

Other sources I've read also say lumber but I don't think that is fact....yet. Soybeans were also impacted.

[Klunker]

I would like to see the export of raw logs to anywhere outside the us made illegal.  And i say this as someone whos entire production either goes in conexs to china or on trucks to canada. 
 

I'm with you.


Its foolish to sell raw materials outside of the country. Always better to add value then sell. If someone wants our logs sell them only finished 2 x4's or whatever, but not raw logs.

better yet sell them finished furniture, window assemblies, door assemblies and so on.

[SwampDonkey]

At one time we had legislation to prevent exporting of logs from the province from public lands. The wood had to be processed here. But in one of the down swings and mill closures, and lobbying by the big whigs,  they removed the law. The small fry have no say in politics. That was back in the 90's. Most that I see being moved out of province is pulpwood anyway. We don't have a lot of veneer wood and a handful of hardwood mills can handle what decent sawlogs there is. The cutting cycles have become too frequent to grow a decent sized log. And there is no will to manage hardwood that way. And of course all the furniture manufacturing is long gone. I will say though, that 95% of my wooden furniture in made in Canada, one piece of wooden furniture comes from Pennsylvania which is made of ash. Most anything now for wooden furniture is coming from Quebec. I'm fussy about a rocking chair, many are made too high, or straight backs with no curvature.

[nativewolf]

Probably the best time for corrections while the market is depressed before moving forward.  Let them kick and scream because it was their system that got us here.  Nobody is against fair trade.  This is the start of a Golden Age. Great for everyone. The Markets will correct and growth cures all the wounds.

Why is it fair for me to not be able to sell my log to the highest bidder?  I lose money and my landowners lose money.  

[nativewolf]

ive not read the article from ohio stTe
yet 
  but im curious as to what percent of the total volume on hardwood logs on the market actually come from federal
lands?
  softwood can be grown anywhere in  north america.  high quality hardwood
not so much.
  a a realistic rotation length for northern New England is 130 to 150 years. 

Very little hardwoods come from federal lands, mostly in great lakes region.  Private non industrial lands account for over 75% of the timber used/sold by the hardwood industry.

[nativewolf]

I would like to see the export of raw logs to anywhere outside the us made illegal.  And i say this as someone whos entire production either goes in conexs to china or on trucks to canada. 
 

I'm with you.


Its foolish to sell raw materials outside of the country. Always better to add value then sell. If someone wants our logs sell them only finished 2 x4's or whatever, but not raw logs.

better yet sell them finished furniture, window assemblies, door assemblies and so on.

So foolish for Canada to sell us oil?  Right, gotcha.  

The idea of a free market is to market participants decide on who is mot efficient.

[customsawyer]

Another thing to consider is the labor force now days. I have some good help right now. If they chose to leave, I have zero doubt that I will be looking for a long time to replace them. I'm paying a lot just to have someone stack lumber. Granted they need to be able to make a decent wage to be able to survive now days. My local area has given tax breaks for companies to open factories here. Almost all of them have closed, because they can't find the skilled labor to do the work. The new gas stations are paying 20 bucks a hour and more. I don't know what the answers are but just some other things to consider. 

[Mooseherder]

Probably the best time for corrections while the market is depressed before moving forward.  Let them kick and scream because it was their system that got us here.  Nobody is against fair trade.  This is the start of a Golden Age. Great for everyone. The Markets will correct and growth cures all the wounds.

Why is it fair for me to not be able to sell my log to the highest bidder?  I lose money and my landowners lose

Probably the best time for corrections while the market is depressed before moving forward.  Let them kick and scream because it was their system that got us here.  Nobody is against fair trade.  This is the start of a Golden Age. Great for everyone. The Markets will correct and growth cures all the wounds.

Why is it fair for me to not be able to sell my log to the highest bidder?  I lose money and my landowners lose money. 

The Markets will develop where they're needed.  Probably a new opportunity for you to capitalize on.  We will have no choice but to seek other ways now.
There was only one place to sell my spf sawlogs in Maine.  They have mills in both countries. Mine went to Canada. There was only one option for chip wood also.
It wasn't good for my Logger or me either.  He decided to get out of Logging on my job after 6 loads went out.

To Customsawyer's point, they are always advertising for job positions at the mills.
I don't know how it'll turn out but it was definitely time to try something different.