.050, .058, or .063, I am confused

[thecfarm]

I run Sthil chains on my Huskys. 

[Old Greenhorn]

Just pass an executive order. There's another guy that does that all the time, but his are not based on logic. Yours might take hold.

[Old Greenhorn]

I run Sthil chains on my Huskys. 

Is that legal?

[barbender]

I have a Stihl chain on one of my Huskies. I don't even know where I got it🤷😊

[arojay]

I know of guys who run Stihl lightweight on their Huskies, for longer bars in particular.  The chain doesn't care as long as the pitch and gauge are correct.  I have both .050 and .058, depending on where I sourced it from; mostly online.  There does seem to be a regional thing.  My nearest Husqvarna dealer only has .058 and the nearest Stihl dealer sells .050.  I'm not confident that either one knows the 'why' of their preferences.  I have heard the logic of the wider gauges carrying more oil for the longer bar, but I have a 32" in .058 and a 42" in .050 and shorter bars in both, so I dunno.  It seems to me that when the pump is putting out and the oil hole in the bar is big enough it doesn't make much difference.  I'll tell you what though, if you make your chains up yourself, it's smart to limit the number of gauges that you have to keep onhand!  ... smarter than me it seems.

[thecfarm]

Can't they order it in??
I am about 45 minutes away from any sthil dealer. I order 5 at a time.
I work in a parts store that sells oregon products.
I probably could by a oregon chain for half what I pay for sthil.
I ran that RS sthil yellow chain.
Yes, it seems to cut faster, which that's not why I run it.
I am claiming back a lot of pasture land and I cut my stumps low and I mean low.
The chain is in the dirt a lot and needs to be filed a lot. I hit  too. 
I can put the saw on the ground and file the chain and get it back to almost where it was. The next filing it is there.
Seem like an oregon chain it takes about 3-4 filing and its never back to real good and then by that time I have hit something again. So, it's a vicious cycle with an oregon chain.

[DHansen]

I like the RS chain, but have Oregon, Stihl, Husqvarna and X-Cut.  Except for X-Cut I was told Husqvarna chain is Oregon chain.  I use 36RS in .063 105DL on the 592XP and A .050 66DL on a 550 XP.  I like all three options, as long as they are filed correctly, they all cut nice.  When there is an issue, it is usually my fault.   If given the choice I'd buy the RS chain over the old Husqvarna or Oregon version.  Plus, the RS is not a skip pattern.  You just have to decide what you want and then make sure the pattern and chain is correct.  Don't count on the counter guy knowing what's best for you.  They tend to want to sell what they have in stock.

[thecfarm]

I had a small sawshop that told me about the RS chain. And I do mean small. No lawn mowers or trimmers sold at his place. 
He worked alone on a deadend road.
Then he retired on me.   I would mention his name and every one knew him and said, he's good.

I've only been to 2 Sthil dealers and everyone has to question me on the chain. They don't carry it, which is fine, order it and I am happy. 
I call and order 5 chains and then go pick them up.

[Old Greenhorn]

.......... Don't count on the counter guy knowing what's best for you. .............

NEVER depend on the counter guy or gal unless you know them and their experience. They are sales people. The shops where the counter guy was one who played with saws in his spare time, had a bunch of his own, spent time in the shop and reading all the product bulletins is pretty much an extinct species. It's just like auto parts stores, they know 'make, model, and year' and that's about it.
 If you've got one of the 'old guys' (regardless of age), you are very lucky indeed.

[DHansen]

(Take a look at the spec and sharpening sheet that comes in every box of X-cut chain. They STILL don't have the data for the X-cut chains on the sheets they ship with the X-cut chain! Who's minding the store there?)





My X-Cut boxes do list the file specifications.  The 0° angle differs from the base 83 or 85 Husqvarna chain.  But to me the roller gauge supplied in the X-Cut file kit looks identical to my base 83-85 roller file guide.  Just my thoughts.

[doc henderson]

We are fortunate to have an old Amish Stihl shop.  they even work on cars.  It is on the 4th owners, but they usually just pass it along the family or to someone who works there.  I buy the chain off the rack.  My friend got the wrong length once. and it turned out the box had the right numbers on it, but the loop was too long.  they exchanged it.  We also have a car parts shop in town.  the counter is old and greasy, and if you take an old part in, they get out calipers to cross reference it if the part is not readily available.  It is the place you go to rebuild and older vehicle.  Rose motor.

Home | Rose Motor Supply | Auto Parts, Car Parts, Truck Parts

[Old Greenhorn]

(Take a look at the spec and sharpening sheet that comes in every box of X-cut chain. They STILL don't have the data for the X-cut chains on the sheets they ship with the X-cut chain! Who's minding the store there?)


My X-Cut boxes do list the file specifications. .................

Yes, that is correct, although I have seen some boxes that lack that data, most of the popular sizes have them. What I was referring to is the DATASHEET inside the box that should list all the chains, files sizes, and angles. There is still no X-cut on those sheets.

[Old Greenhorn]

This sheet just came out of a box I bought a week ago as TS. Nothing on xcut.


As far as the roller guides go, I did a quick comparison on the ones I have for .325 and I believe you are correct. Very strange. I put some calipers on them to compare. Weird for sure, this too makes no sense. I will dig into this further when the shop warms up a bit more. My 3/8 xcut roller guide is still NIB,  a salesman's sample.

 Curiouser and curiouser.

[Old Greenhorn]

Dang it all. Now you got me going. I took out my roller guides laying the (supposed) x-cut version next to the standard version. Now my 3/8 I just took out of the package new. Not only are all the markings the same, but every dimension I checked were the same with the widest variation being .005 and most being the same within.002. both have blue rollers.

Markings on the .325 vary a little. Xcut version says".325 33" with a symbol before the 33  that I think means something I can't figure out. The standard one is marked ",325 4.8" with a diameter symbol meaning file size. Again every dimension I measured is virtually identical. I can not figure this out. The xcut has orange rollers and the standard has blue.

 Finally I put both guides on sequential teeth on their respective bars/chains to compare tilt angle and I'll be danged If I can see much of a difference. I am wondering what these designers are thinking.

 This is enough information I think to make inquiries directly with Husqvarna and find out what the deal is. That's what I would do if I knew who to contact. But these companies don't like talking to customers and they don't share the names of their people. If anyone knows how and who I could access, I think I'd like to pursue this.  I can post some pics later, using my phone here out in the shop waiting for coffee to perk on the stove.

[beenthere]

Just might not make any difference. 

[DHansen]

Old GreenHorn,  I did the same and can't tell the difference, leading me to think once I take a file to my X-Cut chains they are no longer the X-Cut profile.  Unless I free hand at 0°.  Not sure if I can do that and not be off by 10°.   Well, if they cut good, and last then why do I care.  

[Old Greenhorn]

Regardless of what the guide may lead you into, I hold the file flat, roller guide or not, but these new revelations may have an effect on that.
-------------
You can call me anal retentive (lots of folks have) but stuff like this makes me crazy. I can't let it go because it makes no sense. When I was working and got client feedback on an issue with our products I would chase it down and if they were right and there was a problem I would chase it all the way to resolution. If they were wrong, I would get back with them and explain why and how to make it right for themselves. I got known as a PITA because I always wanted to follow through and have happy customers. Most folks won't do that (follow through) and I get it. Nobody wants to make waves. I see it all the time asking hard questions to field service folks from WM and Husky. They just want me to 'go away' and try to throw me a bone to get me off the scent.

Not this time. I spent an hour writing an email to the President of Forest products for North America at Husky detailing my questions about the roller guides and why those spec sheets are 20+ years out of date. I know I am tilting at windmills here and the chance of getting any answer or reply beyond 'We got your note, thanks' is pretty slim. Probably it wouldn't even get through the corporate servers, but I had to try. (I also snuck in a plug to become a FF sponsor, figured it couldn't hurt and might do them some good.) I sent the note and figured I might, at best, get something back in a week or so. Most likely I would hear nothing, but at least I tried. I figured that was that and made lunch.
While eating I got a return email from that address which I assumed would be a robot answer. I'll just post it here without the signature:
---------------------------------------------
Thanks a lot for your feedback, really appreciated. I will get in touch with the engineers, I know them well, and see what they say.
Have a great continued weekend


Regards,
___________________________________

Well what do you know about that?! So there is a chance we may actually get some answers after all. Stay tuned. Now we (I) just have to hope it winds up with a conscientious engineer type.

[DHansen]

I wrote this before seeing post #41.  Sorry.  I think the date on that data sheet you have is from March of 2002.  Maybe Husqvarna stopped updating that sheet.  So much information today is digital and not put into print.  The manufacture directed you to a website to download and print the data yourself.   Saving paper usage and cost to the manufacture.  Not saying I like the situation, but sure seems more the norm today.  I have not seen a sheet like that in my new chain boxes in many years.  But I do remember them, may even have one tucked in a file or owner's manual.

[John Mc]

My X-Cut boxes do list the file specifications.  The 0° angle differs from the base 83 or 85 Husqvarna chain.  But to me the roller gauge supplied in the X-Cut file kit looks identical to my base 83-85 roller file guide.  Just my thoughts.

I did figure out the difference between the X-cut roller guides and the "standard" roller guides at one point. One of the angles was different. I cant recall if it was the slope from the front to the back of the tooth, the top plate angle, or the "down angle" at which the file is reported. I just checked enough to convince myself that there was in fact a difference, then didn't bother to remember what it was, I just remember to use the X-cut guide on the X-cut chains and leave it at that.

One thing I did not check which I have often wondered about: is the overall height of the tooth different? This is important with a sharpener like the roller guide, were the file height is set in relation to the tie strap or base of the chain, as compared one of the Oregon-style clip-on file holders or the Stihl 2-in-1/Pferd CHainsharp CSX where the file height is set by the top of the tooth.

[Old Greenhorn]

Well John, if you found a difference I wish you would share it because I put both on the same chain and bar, side by side and they both lay at the same angle and the "x-cut" is not zero, that's for sure.

DH, yes, I see an '02 rev date on it and as I said, it's been in a lot of boxes including the one I bought in the last 10 days. If they are trying to save paper, they are doing it wrong because they are still stuffing them in the boxes.

Let's see what the experts say because I already turned it over to them, right or wrong. These are valid questions I believe.

[John Mc]

I'd have to go through the thing again, because I truly don't remember what the difference is that I found. It will be a bit before I have the time to dig them out again.

[Al_Smith]

As far as brands or styles of chain you can get forty eleven opinions and everyone of them are right according to who you talk about it with .Some file,some grind ,some send them out .I say what ever works--works
Strictly my opinon is Stihl RS chain although more costly is the best but they all work .Some just better than others .
It's been said as far as price Stihl in high impact logging areas such as the PNW is priced competitively .In areas such as I live it's at premium price range .Unlike some I'm not brand loyal  on any thing .

[Spike60]

Expanding on Al's post#20....those regional preferences were determined by which gauge chain the various manufacturers chose to supply with their saws. So, whatever brand was popular in a given area, the popularity of that chain gauge went along for the ride.  

Jonsered and mcCulloch were primarily .058.  Including .325 for the Jonnys. Homelite was .050. To my knowledge, Stihl was mostly .050, but at some point went to .063 for their .325 saws.  Husky and Dolmar generally let dealers chose between 50 and 58 when ordering saws. Olympyk  was all 58 as they were sold by the same distributor as Jonsered. All of the Japanese brands were .050. Echo, Shinny, Red Max, Green Machine and Tanaka. ( you can't knock a Tanaka)

What's it all mean? Very little in the woods. I doubt the OEM  discussions were as in depth as this thread has become.   

The fact that .063 is more popular on long bars suggests additional strength could have been a factor. Particularly in .404 aps.

But I think it's hard to make a case for one over the other. 

[DHansen]

Thankfully we only have 3 gauges to keep Stright in the chainsaw chain world.

ADDED: Wait I forgot .043"

[Spike60]

Regarding some of this  Xcut confusion... Xcut is a BRAND, not a chain type or spec. It is a sub-brand of Husqvarna the same way that Motorcraft is to Ford. It was created to identify chain made by Husky from that made by Oregon. 3/8 chisel, .325 narrow kerf, whatever. If it's made by Husky, it's all Xcut.

The type or spec would be stuff like C85 or  S93G, which is their 3/8lp chain. Also an Xcut chain.