Cutting a troublesome leaner

[kkcomp]

I have to take down a Tulip Poplar that is about 28 inches at the base guessing 60-70 foot high on the side of a hill and leaning. Any advice or tips to prevent bad things like barber chairs etc???

[Frickman]

Bore cut your back cut.

[TreefarmerNN]

In our area, poplar that size will likely have a hollow or at least a soft center.  One nice thing about a bore cut is you will feel any hollows and know what you are dealing with.

Check overhead very carefully.  Poplars like to shed limbs if there are any dead or diseased spots.

[John Mc]

Are you dropping with the lean, or in some other direction?

[kkcomp]

Are you dropping with the lean, or in some other direction?

That is part of my question. Which would be best? There is open area in all directions. Cutting just a leaner is one thing but add in the hill and it becomes very different. If I cut to the lean it would probably pinch the saw before I could get a wedge out.

[beenthere]

Going with the lean, would be least risky (without seeing any pics of what you describe). Don't make the felling notch so big that it leaves a pinched saw. Just cut enough to plunge cut behind it and make a good, even hinge. Diameter vs saw blade length need to factored in as well.

There are things that contribute that we can't tell from just a description. Takes some "on the ground" knowledge and know-how. 

[rusticretreater]

Always go with the lean when possible. One of the times where physics is your friend. I would do what I call a gentle notching on the front.  You cut just a little bit of an open  notch. Then go back and cut a little bit more out, top & bottom. Never making a kerf cut where your saw can get in a bind.  Then the bore cut to create the hinge and finally, release cut on the back side of the tree.

[John Mc]

If you are felling with a forward lean, bore-cutting to set the hinge, as @Frickman mentioned, is a great way to reduce the chances of barberchair. Make the notch, bore cut behind the notch and a bit away from the hinge more or less parallel to the hinge, then bring cut toward the notch until you have set the desired thickness of the hinge. Next cut back toward the back of the tree, leaving a strip of holding wood at the back to keep the tree from falling. When you are ready, and all is clear, cut the holding wood and the tree falls into its lean.

By setting up the hinge first, while the tree is still held in place, you avoid "chasing" the tree down as happens when you make the back cut by cutting in from the back on a forward leaner. (When cutting in from the back, tree will start moving before you have reached the ideal thickness of the hinge. This increases the chance of barber chair.)

If you are not familiar with the bore cutting technique, take a look at this video from Husqvarna. It's long, and some of it may be more basic than what you need, but worth a look to get an idea of the technique. If you are looking for just a quick update, skip to about the 13:00 mark and watch until about 23:00 or so (Times are approximate)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Teb2bQsqx44&list=PL0VcazyXHqErUd8ib-OKs6sZkfGFQ5shu&index=1

[John Mc]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Teb2bQsqx44&list=PL0VcazyXHqErUd8ib-OKs6sZkfGFQ5shu&index=1

The rest of the videos in that play list are pretty good as well. Might be too basic for a lot of the folks on here, but might still be interesting. Might pick up a tip or two, or better understand the reasoning behind why some things are done the way they are.

[Hogdaddy]

If you dont have much experience, I would say to get someone to teach/ show you how to cut the tree. But, if you don't know anyone already that you can trust, that may be a little difficult to find. Poplar would be better to learn with than other species though. 

[cutterboy]

John Mc, you described a bore cut very well.

[John Mc]

One other thought:

You didn't mention if this tree is anywhere near a house, building, or anything else of value, a 28" leaning tree is probably not the best choice to be learning a new techniques on. A 28" tree that is threatening something of value nearby while learning a new technique is probably a time to call an experienced friend or professional.

[kkcomp]

One other thought:

You didn't mention if this tree is anywhere near a house, building, or anything else of value. a 28" tree is probably not the best choice to be learning a new techniques on. A 28" tree that is threatening something of value nearby while learning a new technique is probably a time to call an experienced friend or professional.

Thanks for all of the help. The tree is in a forest with pretty much nothing else around it. I think there is anything to even get the branches tangled up in.

[Ianab]

John Mc has given you good advice. Bore cutting as he describes is generally the safest way to deal with leaning trees, so it's a good technique to learn. Shallow notch first, it only needs to be deep enough to let you create a hinge. Even if it's not full width, it will work as gravity and the hinge aren't fighting each other. The tree wants to go in the direction the hinge is trying to make it move. Steering the tree off that path is where it gets tricky. 

If the tree is larger than your saw, it complicates things a little, but it not super tricky. You just have to bore from each side, and get the cuts close to matching. Doesn't have to be perfect as gravity will bust out any small bits of cross grain wood if your cuts overlap. 

Then with your release cut, you nip that back strap of wood that's holding the tree up, and skedaddle out of there. The tree will move a lot faster than usual because the lean is already there. The wood at the back is under tension, holding that side of the tree down. Also, as you cut back toward the holding wood, it's possible that this may tear out if you cut too far. Not the end of the world, just be prepared to bail out if that happens. The hinge wood and gravity will still send the tree in the right direction, just get yourself clear of the stump. 

If the tree turns out to be hollow, same technique. A shallow notch means you should still have sound hinge wood, and the back strap should be in solid wood on the other side. Bore out the space in between, then cut the holding wood. 

[kkcomp]

Practiced on a few small trees today. Thanks to the advice from the group I was able to get a good feel for the process. Tomorrow the big guy goes down. 

[thecfarm]

Clear out an escape route with every tree. 

[maple flats]

I recently had to drop 2 leaners, the larger one was a 29" diameter at where I cut it on a high stump , a sugar maple. However I had 2 issues. It was leaning towards my sugarhouse, at one corner, and towards an anchor tree supporting a maple sap mainline. I had 22' opening between them. First I had to move sap tanks, vacuum pump and several other items. Then I did pretty much like Frickman suggested, I first cut the felling notch and even used a 4' sheetrock square to verify the aim. Then I plunge cut mid-way from the notch cut to the back, then defined the thickness of the hinge confirmine the hinge was equal thickness both sides. I noted that the sawdust chips all looked white color, no rot. Then I cut out the back from the plunge cut. The tree only had about a 9-10 degree lean, but my land there is sand from about 6-14" down, I get lots of uprooting. Even after I cut out the back I still had to use wedges, I got 2 in full depth, then got 2 more ready to drive in stacked, buy as I slid those in place the tree fell before I had to hit the wedges. It landed perfectly in the only open area there was. The second tree was only 14-15" at the stump, a hemlock, smaller opening but it went well too, same method cutting, but no wedges needed.
That method works well.
If you need more training I strongle suggest "the game of logging" training. I took it about 20 yrs ago, after cutting trees for firewood for about 40 yr, I still learned a lot.

[cutterboy]

OH, the satisfaction when the tree falls where you want it to, and in your case where it must.
Great job maple flats, and congratulations.

[Freedy201]

for a leaning Tulip Poplar that size, make sure to notch it properly on the side you want it to fall—about a third of the way through—and use a good back cut with a slight upward angle to avoid splitting or barber chairs. Also, use wedges right after the back cut to guide the fall and keep it safe.

[beenthere]

Freedy201
That isn't a plan that I would use to drop this leaning tree, but without at least a photo of this tree, I can't say any more. 

Mainly, if it is leaning and falling the tree with the lean, then for sure there will be no need for wedges to guide the tree. The well-placed and uniform hinge will handle the direction and the lean will handle when and how fast it will fall. If it falls too quickly, then the risk of splitting and barber chair is very high. 
Control of the fall comes from a bore cut using the holding wood to stop the fall until ready with a good hinge. 

[John Mc]

So, @kkcomp , Are you got to let us know how it went?

[Ianab]

This is old thread about a big leaning cypress I took down and milled a few years back. It was 52" across the stump, and a most definite forward lean. Trying a conventional notch and back cut on that would have ended badly. 

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=22582.0