Eastern Red Cedar for shingles

[Jasperfield]

I used Eastern Red Cedar shakes on my house and shop. Being a "shake", they are riven. And, they were not necessarily "quarter-riven".

The success of a shake roof is due as much, if not more, to installation method as to material used. The Cedar Shake Institute (I think that is what it is called) specifies the method to install. Follow this method completely, and you will have no leaks.

Here, In WNC we have several old buildings that were roofed with Poplar shakes. They work very well and turn a silvery color after several years. The shakes need to be, in my opinion, at least 24" long.

[rmack]

One issue that applies certainly to shakes, and probably shingles, is if you have leaves or needles from a nearby tree accumulating on the roof, the shakes will rot and fail much, MUCH faster than they would if allowed to dry between rains.

I have lived in a house where a section of WRC shake roof failed in about 10 years from leaves from neighbours tree accumulating on center of one side of roof.

[4speed]

This cabin sets across from my office. It was relocated to this location from where it was built in our County. I have always assumed that the shakes were ERC. They are extremely light and the story is that the cabin was built like many others of the time with only available resources. And we have more ERC here than you can shake a stick at. They are not on the roof, but appear to be weathering well. 

  

  

 

[KnotBB]

Shingles versus shakes.  What is the difference?  I have always thought of a shake as being a shingle that is made by splitting (or are riven), while a shingle itself is sawn.  Most sawn shingles I have seen are tapered, lengthwise.  Are they ever uniform in thickness and, if so, what are they called?  I cannot recall any riven shingles (or shakes) that were anything but quarter grain, probably to avoid warp (especially cup).  I have seen sawn shingles with various grain patterns, but mostly quarter.

It is interesting that the popularity of asphalt shingles that look somewhat like wood shakes is increasing.

Yes. shingles are sawn and shakes are riven (split) with a fro and mallet.  All the shakes I've tried to split had to be done on a radial line from the center (quarter saw) to get anything near an even thickness and the ability to split the next shake. They taper slightly from right to left.  I have seen "resawn" shakes where a thick shake was split and then sawn from top to bottom to provide a tapered.  Looks like had split but gives a uniform surfaced roof.   but has one rough surface.  Shingle mills saw hand split bolts (thus quarter sawn) and the bolt is tipped alternately and the next shingle is cut giving a tapered shingle. Not quite quarter sawn but close.   #1 shingles are defect free and used mostly for roofing, #2s (includes knots) are decorative, used as siding, or for tapered shims.  Shakes can be as long 4' and roof coverage (face) is 1/3 of the length.  Shakes can be sized width wise on the roof with a hatchet.  Shingles can't be and generally must be sawn to get the correct width.

Cedar shakes and shingles were a big deal in Jackson Hole , Wyoming, so rustic, even though the early settlers didn't have any cedar to make shakes out of.  Then they had the big fires several years ago.  One spark on the roof and the house went poof.  So much for rustic.  I'd guess there are a lot of metal roofs in that area now.

For decoration, anything can be cut for shingles if you can get them to dry flat.  For roofing rot resistance defect free is the key for longevity but so is slope of the roof that allows rapid drainage and drying.   

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

KnotBB,
Because of the taper, left to right, I was told that a small piece from the thin side would sometimes be split off to avoid the very thin edge...for eastern red cedar.  Is this what you have seen or heard also?

[WDH]

4Speed,

That surely does not look like ERC.  Looks more like WRC (western red cedar).  The growth rings are very tight in many of the shingles.  Not a typical growth habit of ERC.

[4speed]

Thanks, WDH. I spoke with a friend on the historical commission. The back half of the cabin was added later, after the structure was moved. The front is hand hewn timbers. When it was moved, WRC was available commercially through several local lumber yards. Due to its abundance here, I had also thought of using ERC as shingles. Very interesting thread. 

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

4SPEED, I'd love to have that building on the farm. Great pics. Thanks for sharing.

[Cedarman]

4speed, I think the telling thing is that ERC doesn't weather with a peak and valley along growth rings.

[captain_crunch]

One of our barns had split fir shakes and they lasted 50+ years before 69 snow storm done in barn or they might still be there : : Bad part is most all the Old growth Western Red Cedar is gone or protected and second growth just dont last at all. Fire killed snags were the best. Shingles were sawn and were 16-18 inches long and Shakes were 2ft long and split. Old timers claim a sawn post will not last compared to a split post

[KnotBB]

KnotBB,
Because of the taper, left to right, I was told that a small piece from the thin side would sometimes be split off to avoid the very thin edge...for eastern red cedar.  Is this what you have seen or heard also?

That would certainly be an option but I've never split a shake with a real thin edge.  You do take take the heart center out and use it for kindling making a block (shake bolt) and not a pie shaped piece before any fro work starts.  I'd make the inner part of the shake (toward heart center) the minimum usable thickness and taper out from there.  I know that sounds wasteful but it really isn't considering there is no sawdust. 
Western red cedar, Douglas fir and white oak are the only bolts I've ever split and the oak better be green and very straight grained.