Evaluation of sawmill purchase and feasability of commercial use

[MikeySP]

What say you? Evaluation of Sawmill for personal and commercial use.

Woodmizer LT40HD for $12,500
Onan gas engine (about 25HP?)
800 Hours
Second Owner
Keeps under cover
Faded paint
Runs good
Year...forgot to ask :(

If I was your son would you steer me in another direction?
Would it be a wise purchase meaning, if I did not get the infectious sawmilling bug, would I have any problemo getting my money back?

Thank you. 

My intent was to build a machine and if all I wanted to do was cut my own trees, I would probably build a cobbled sub $1K machine. However, after much consideration of the time involved to fabricate a commercial quality machine, I think the only solution for my desire to be milling sooner rather than later is to buy. I think I would really enjoy milling... but I could be wrong as I see many folks who start but do not follow through for whatever facts have changed in their lives.  

I do have a descent Skidsteer with severe duty grapple bucket, forks, backhoe attachment, and steel tracks. Was going to sell it after digging my footers in a few weeks; but, if I go the milling route, I will hang onto it and probably cobble up a skidder grapple for logging about 15-20 acres of my land which has a bunch of 18"-30" long straight pines. Not in demand much from local mills, but would be nice for me to make the wood for my house and my sons house as well as barn/shop. 

I am an amateur fabricator. My professional background was Special Forces and after retirement I did Counter-Terror instruction for about 6 years until I was hurt. I would have thought milling was a young man's game alone until I noted many of you old war horses starting in late 40's on to 60 or so and loving it. Well, I can't do what I once did, but I am still able to be slow, steady, and use a little more brain because my braun has gotten up and gone .

The point here is not to utter all my mind, but to be clear so you can encourage me or discourage me... as you also evaluate the purchase I am considering. 

Wife is supportive if I decide to go this route. 

Thank you for your experiences, counsel, and wisdom!

-Mike

[MikeySP]

It is a 1995 model. Edit: it is a 1993 model.

[Magicman]

Wife is supportive if I decide to go this route.

My wife really did not like the idea at all but heck, I was only 59 years old.  She asked "how are you gonna pay for it"?  I didn't have that answer but I felt that I could make it work.  As it happened, it was paid for before the end of that first year.  Happily that was 17 years ago, I am still sawing and now my wife is supportive of me sawing.  For the past several days I have been readying the truck/sawmill for a 230 mile (one way) road trip. 

[Hooterspfld]

@MikeySP 

Not trying to offer any advice, cause I'm new to all this, but there is a similar saw in my area for $13,000. So probably in the correct ballpark price wise. 

1991 WoodMizer band sawmill hydraulic 24 horse power motor in good shape
LT40 hydraulic
saw up to 36" in diameter log
either 27" or 24" between the guides $13,000

[terrifictimbersllc]

Woodmizer will give you an estimate of the mill's value if you call them.  If you can get the serial number they may be look it up and provide an even better estimate as well as the mill's history/parts history.

Someone else may comment but I think there is a "breakpoint" around 1995-1997 where newer mills have significant improvements or revisions compared to older mills.  

If you saw at home you already have material handling help with your machines and are under less pressure time wise for production rate.

If you saw portable for customers you can make them do a lot of material handling.

Your age is in your favor for a milling career if you like it. 

Try to keep expenses down and revenue up and it works better. 

[MikeySP]

Thank you gents!

Turns out it is a 1993. He corrected himself after looking up the serial number for me.

Magicman, you were one of my inspirations when I told my beloved wife about my idea. You were the first one that got me thinking I could do this.

My buddy has a 1988 model and said he would recommend a 90's or later model. His comments:

"Looks like a good mill. I see a lot of the features I would look for. Hydraulic blade tensioner (old ones had a spring tensioner) power throat adjustment (Dad's has a manual adjust that is really hard on your wrist), 6' hydraulic contact strip, updated height adjustment system, etc... definitely not an early model... and low hours."

[MikeySP]

Ok, spoke with woodmizer rep and he confirmed it is a 93 LT40HD with Onan 24HP. I let him know it was in good shape and had 800 hours.

His computer was having a problem or something as he could not find the "orange book" value on it. When I told him it was $12,500, he said that sounded high and that he thinks it should be about $10,000. 

He told me I cannot put a:
Debarker or Setworks

I heard Woodmizer is awesome, awesome, awesome in their care of customer. I felt like I was a little bit of a waste of his time initially. Hated to call back as I forgot to ask value. He was much better on second call. Maybe needed his Monday am coffee, or had a spat at home. No one is perfect, not even woodmizer. Must be an anomaly after reading so many raving reviews about their customer care. 

Anyways, I would ask you men: why can't I add a hommade debarker, setworks? Surely someone has done it, and done it well? Woould putting an alternator sufficient sized to handle the load be too much for that Onan? What about a minor mod to the Onan that would give it a few more horse power to handle the extra load of the alternator? I can fab some. I really want to get a sawmill now, not after I save up another $8-10K for a Super. 

Thanks for your advice. -Mike

[Southside]

Maybe it would be more accurate to say a factory setworks or debarker won't bolt onto that mill.  I am sure it can be done, just how much time and home brew engineering is involved and what is the value of that becomes the question.  

FWIW I bought my LT35 when it was two years old, Simple set, debarker, full hydraulics for $12K.  I was going to buy a LT40, about the same vintage as the one you are looking at, from a guy I know, but he changed his mind and decided not to sell it.  So if this is not the right deal, there will be others around.  

[sealark37]

To make a mill a commercial success, you need to have an accurate estimation of customer demand and log supply.  If you can get suitable logs, and provide milled products that are in demand in your area, you can make money.  Caution: If you have the above, pressure will build to enlarge and expand your mill operation.  Good Luck, and Regards, Clark

[WV Sawmiller]

Southside,

   I'd say you got a steal on your mill. That's a very good price. 

   
MikeySP,

    The electronic setworks and debarker are must have items for me. FWIW.

[MikeySP]

Thank you gents. I am surprised no one has come up with aftermarket woodmizer mods that are simple to add on. Seems like extra amps (bigger alternator), debarker, and a setwork would really transform a pre 1996 machine's value for a start up.

The comments I have seen are trade up vs mod. I was convince WM is the cat's meow of saw mills. Seems like the following is WM is like a MAC and others are PC.

 

[doc henderson]

Things like the alternator can maybe be done, if needed, but should be sized for the machine.  What else will you have that will pull increased amps, cont. or intermittent.  You may do well to simply add another battery.  The bigger alternator may pull some power from the milling process.  You start with a fixer upper and clean it up.  In the future resell it to get money out, or trade up to a model with all you could ever want.

[charles mann]

@MikeySP 
there is a thread in this section of the mods people have done to their mills. a search in the search eng might turn up something for ya. I will see if i can find it and link it for you. me and a search eng dont play well together. my wife on the other hand can find anything on search eng. 

[charles mann]

Mikey, here is the thread on the sawmill mods 

Useful sawmill mods in Sawmills and Milling

[doc henderson]

real curious what else you want to add that pulls juice.  Lights, stereo with amp and sub woofer?  lol.  Maybe running and electric motor for debark or linear actuator.  I made a conveyor with 12 volt drive gear reduced motor.  If it is for lights and alt wont. handle it could get solar and batt. for that.  Not many would recommend night milling, although I have done it by skidsteer light when I "thought" it was needed.  are you close to ac most of the time or do you have needs while mobile milling?  I have 110v ran to near the mill to power KAT magnetic heated stuck to the hydraulic fluid tank to pre warm fluid in the winter.

[MikeySP]

Thanks for tips and link gents. I want to ad a debarker and I don't know if the reason the Co doesn't have one is lack of amperage?? Stereo sounds nice.... but the sound of saw dust chipping out and Onan rumbling will have to suffice. when I get home will visit mod link!

[YellowHammer]

You said you wanted a commercial quality machine. Any of the newer and some older machines are more than commercial use, depending on the term commercial.  I started our business with an LT 15, as have others. It was manual but I couldnt wear it out. Sold it for almost what I paid for it
Bought a LT 40, not Super. I mill with it almost every day. It's a true workhorse. We don't cut as much wood as some people on the Forum but we do pretty good.  



So my advice is get one with what you want  on it, new or used, and get to milling. Don't buy one knowing it won't make you happy. 

[Bandmill Bandit]

Not much I can see wrong with that "horse' cept its a bit "long in the tooth". BUT with a Wood Mizer thats no so much of a problem. Just "grind them teeth a bit"! I'd buy it myself if I was in the market for a good used mill but I have a good used mill already.  

Check with Wood Mizer on parts availability. As a rule they will have upgrade kits for NLA parts.  
PS
After reading the above post, I will add the following. I started with an LT40HD28G and I hassel my dealer that he under sold me. What I have to day is an LT40HD34G "ALMOST SUPER", after all my mods and additions which cost me about $12,000.00 CDN PLUS my labor and shop time! An LT40HD38D Super would have cost me exactly $5800.00 more at time of purchase and the LT50 would have been about $8000 more.

There are pretty extensive posts in the sawmill mods thread on ALL of my mods to date.

Id say you need an LT40 Super at the least.    

[MikeySP]

What is the distinction between a Super and an HD? Setworks, debarker, and?

[Southside]

The Supers have more hydraulic capacity, larger hoses, faster operating speed as a result.  You don't need a Super to get the debarker or setworks.  I think you can get a drag back option on a non-super 40 as well.  

[JustinW_NZ]

The Supers have more hydraulic capacity, larger hoses, faster operating speed as a result.  You don't need a Super to get the debarker or setworks.  I think you can get a drag back option on a non-super 40 as well.  

Be careful there, the supers also have bigger drive motors to handle the drag back im pretty sure.
Sure it would work, but stress the death out of a smaller one quickly perhaps?
I run a 1997 (changeover year to new frame) model lt40 super with a lombardini diesel on it, around here we cut a lot of hardwood and large stuff commercially, so to me I would not go smaller for production reasons more than anything.
And im also a debarker fan as well!
Cheers
Justin

[DARRELL1972]

Brother and I run a 1995 lt40 running mostly pine for pallet stock. That old onnan lasted 4500 hrs as best I can remember. I would buy it again. I would have to go back tru the books to see what we paid for it.

[Bandmill Bandit]

What is the distinction between a Super and an HD? Setworks, debarker, and?

The LT40HD28G translates to; LT40 is mill model; HD stands for Hydraulic; 28 is HP; the G or D is for Gas or Diesel and the Super stands for the upgrades like the larger electric drive motors, larger alternator, extra Hydraulic pump 3/8 hydraulic hoses.

I would NOT recommend the board return on the regular LT40 unless you have the budget to do the drive upgrade WHEN the small drive motor fails (shortly). I know this from experience.

I did all the up grades to my mill including Laser Sight, Board return, both drive motors, FAO jacks, Simple Set, Hydraulic pump & 3/8s hoses and added running lights. I Don't use the lights much BUT they are nice to have when you have one log left and its about dark.

So it is pretty much an LT40HD34G almost Super. The 34 HP comes from the mod I did to my ECM. The reason I say "Almost Super" is that the mill was not shipped as a factory built Super so it would not be Fair to call it that.      

[doc henderson]

Hey bandit, I would like more info on your laser light setup.  It gets harder to judge when I am behind the log enough to press down on my setworks.  If you care to share.  Thanks.

[doc henderson]

found pics in your gallery.  timberking has a scale and digital height/thickness as well.  I am looking for a laser to project down at the leading edge of the blade.  So I can tell when I am behind the log and can drop the head.  If anyone has thoughts.  Thanks BB