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Author Topic: Clark 667d grapple skidder  (Read 2800 times)

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Offline Snowdemon

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Clark 667d grapple skidder
« on: February 04, 2021, 12:23:42 AM »
So question on possible transmission issue..
When in first gear forward when you throttle forward and it starts moving then let off throttle it stops like there is a brake on. When in reverse first gear will move a few feet then lock up. Put back in neutral you can see machine “relax” go into second gear forward and reverse will work like normal. Third  forward will work reverse will lock up.
My question is there another spot I should be looking besides transmission? The mid mount brake is disconnected and I removed driveline to rear to try and isolate that. The hydraulic brake on rear transmission has just been rebuilt also so that is ruled out.
So any ideas would be great.
Also it is a Detroit engine that runs good and is adjusted correctly.

Thanks

Online mike_belben

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Re: Clark 667d grapple skidder
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2021, 12:08:19 PM »
I assume this is a 3speed powershift fwd/rev unit.  It sounds like you have a crossleakage issue in the control valve section.  If its what i am picturing youll have 2 spools.  One selects direction and one selects ratio.  They direct pressurized oil from the pump to the piston that does whatever is necessary to get the output condition you are calling for.  



If i am right this can be due to internal problems like worn out control valve, blown hoses or lines, bad orings and seals, cracked valve bodies or maybe even low pressure from a stuck regulator.  Valve bodies do use a lot of springs to work or block certain functions under certain conditions and the springs are speced for a defined pressure range.  Falling outside that range makes problems.  


With any luck the issue is external.  Maybe slop in the linkages that move your control spools so that they are stroking part way and leaving things partially shifted?  Look at your pins, links and pivots/rockers.  You can unhook all that and move spools manually to see if normal operation can be achieved, to verify.  


If its not that, id pull the pans down and inspect sump strainer and sump for heavy grit or scattered parts first.  Then change filter, strain or replace fluid and check for correct pressure coming out of pump.  If its right, id pull control valve for visual inspection.


You can only engage one speed and direction at a time.  When leakage is hanging up two functions at once it will feel like a brake.  The one with the most force is driving the carriage while the other is slipling but attempting to bind the unit up by opersting at a different gear ratio at the same time as another gear ratio.  In automatics its called "hanging up."  'My th-400 "hangs" the 1-2 shift' for instance. 
Revelation 3:20

Offline ehp

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Re: Clark 667d grapple skidder
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2021, 12:52:16 PM »
are you sure its a 667D, a D around here all have the 5.9 cummins in them . If the machine will work in 2 second gear then that pretty much rules out everything to the point it has to be in the tranny and I do not know where you live so cannot say where to go to get it fixed but if you end up at the wrong guy hang on to your socks cause the price will scare you on getting it fixed

Offline Snowdemon

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Re: Clark 667d grapple skidder
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2021, 04:03:29 PM »
Ehp... Yes it is a Detroit was changed out from a Cummins when I bought it.. They got a take out Detroit and had it half way installed when I purchased it. I love in Washington state..frog hollow in Seattle seems to know there stuff when I got other parts from them so far..
It is the 3 speed power shift. With two spools on the side. 
I did drain the sump and found parts from the hydraulic brake which is why I replace those parts. During inspection I did find a cage from a tapered roller bearing but I did not find any other pieces that did not go to the brake. The cage was about 4 bearings long.
 I took an inspection camera up inside and looked around as much as I could and did not see anything out of the ordinary. supposably the guy that had it before me said there was no problems with the shifting of the transmission but it had also sat for apparently five to eight years before I bought it which I did not know at the time.

so maybe something got into a hydraulic hose which then in turn made it into the valve body? I can pull the linkage off of the valves and try to shift it that way and see if that'll make a difference..
Is there anything internally that would allow fluid to go different directions and caused the hang up? Or that only be on the outside spool valve attached to the side of the transmission?

Thanks for your quick responses to my posts

Offline kiko

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Re: Clark 667d grapple skidder
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2021, 06:42:59 PM »
That transmission has five clutches.  Reverse and third are on one clutch shaft , forward and second on another .  Then you have low, which is a single shaft. The second speed clutch has likely mechanically failed with the clutch disc wadding up on themselves and locking second clutch in all the time. In any given gear you will have two clutch packs engaged.   When three are engaged it will lock up or drag.  That is why f2 and R2 work because speed clutch is engaged in those gears normally.  This is a picture of a later model transmission but the clutch replacement is the same.

 

 

Offline Snowdemon

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Re: Clark 667d grapple skidder
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2021, 07:12:26 PM »
Kiko.. What is your background with this machine? You sound like you know what you're talking about with my issue.. So just feeling out your expertise.
Also for anybody is there a chance I can leave motor in and just pull tranny? I know it's tight in there just weighing all options.
And I do appreciate all suggestions with my tranny issues.. Thanks

Offline kiko

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Re: Clark 667d grapple skidder
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2021, 08:00:15 PM »
I am not at your machine, so any thing I comment on about your skidder is merely speculation, an effort to help.  What I am telling you is from experience, specially on Clarks and Timberjacks ( many ran the same transmission except they did not have a divorced converter). The pictures I posted are from a H667 service manual as it was easily  accessable at the time.

Online mike_belben

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Re: Clark 667d grapple skidder
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2021, 08:44:26 PM »
Kiko is the boss dude.  Master equipment fixer guy. Thats all he does.
Revelation 3:20

Offline Snowdemon

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Re: Clark 667d grapple skidder
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2021, 09:03:12 PM »
The reason I ask is I was leaning to one of the clutch packs being locked up like you said also.. If I can read the parts diagram correctly I only see a few of the roller bearings in the transmission that would match the cage I found in the bottom and unfortunately it was not in the hydraulic brake I rebuilt.

Well thinking the tranny is coming out was hoping not to but figured that in the back of my head the whole time was hoping that I was missing something.

Thanks to all that responded I do appreciate it.

Offline Snowdemon

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Re: Clark 667d grapple skidder
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2021, 09:10:52 PM »
 

 

 

Online mike_belben

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Re: Clark 667d grapple skidder
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2021, 12:01:17 AM »
Ooh an esco too?  All the want.
Revelation 3:20

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Clark 667d grapple skidder
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2021, 09:13:33 AM »
Ooh an esco too?  All the want.
Looks more like a Young swinger.

Offline Snowdemon

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Re: Clark 667d grapple skidder
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2021, 12:11:03 PM »
It's a esco 212B from what I have been told..
Try and find pictures on line with that grapple combination and machine and they're few and far between.. Almost non existent at least when I try to find them
so I don't know if that's a good or a bad thing but it sounded like it was more of a Pacific Northwest thing.

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Clark 667d grapple skidder
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2021, 03:16:23 PM »
It's a esco 212B from what I have been told..
Try and find pictures on line with that grapple combination and machine and they're few and far between.. Almost non existent at least when I try to find them
so I don't know if that's a good or a bad thing but it sounded like it was more of a Pacific Northwest thing.
Does it have ESCO cast into the side of the boom or grapple?

Offline kiko

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Re: Clark 667d grapple skidder
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2021, 06:54:11 PM »
It may be possible to remove the transmission without removing the engine,  but this issue is The cab does not come all the way off IIRC.  We would always remove the dash and front uprights first and then remove the engine and torque converter together.  Then the transmission.  Since the hoist cable/chain will not hang directly above transmission it with swing forward when you lift.  Going back you can rig a cone along to the rear our put yolk and lower and pull it back into place.  We had built an extention for the forklift where could come right over the front tire and pluck it out.  I think I still have that thing , gotta hide it from the insurance man nowadays.  

Offline Snowdemon

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Re: Clark 667d grapple skidder
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2021, 12:21:48 AM »
Looks like I will just pull the engine.. Won't take that much longer to yard it out.. Prob spend more time trying to work around the engine then just getting it out of the way. 
Sounds like you got experience with it for sure.. To bad you not close by I'm guessing or I would hire you to help me out.
Yes it has esco on the boom and grapple.. Heck the part numbers are still on the tips of the grapple still looks like it was not used hard.

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Clark 667d grapple skidder
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2021, 01:04:12 AM »
That’s good, might want to make sure you can still get parts for them ESCO is pretty much closed up shop in Portland.

Online mike_belben

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Re: Clark 667d grapple skidder
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2021, 09:05:28 AM »
Pulling the engine is a good opportunity to clean out the trash, scrape out all the grease mud that burns oh so well, address any old lines or hoses or grease fittings, rats nest wiring, etc.  powerwash the mud from the radiator, look for torn rubber mounts and check out the cradle pivot and front drive line too.


Youll have a better machine in the end. 

👍
Revelation 3:20

Offline kiko

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Re: Clark 667d grapple skidder
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2021, 04:59:32 PM »
Forklift male anatomy


 l forgot it had been used recently to set some pumps on a knuckle boom.  Gonna hide it  again Monday. The safety chain holds it to the mast when tilted

Offline Snowdemon

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Re: Clark 667d grapple skidder
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2021, 10:51:00 PM »
 

 

 


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