new WM BMS250MU, won't operate (my issue solved, others still have problems)

[Crossroads]

I sent Mr. Floyd a pm as well, but haven't heard back at this point. I'll try to get a better picture of the print after bit. Thank you 

[alco424]

 The only reply I got was from the east coast dealer (Bert) to whom I sent my 'three options' email. 

I'd really like to know what the three options you proposed were.
Brian

[jimbarry]

I'd really like to know what the three options you proposed were.
Brian

Here is a portion of the email I sent:

...
1. Find a solution that works by May 30th 2022,
2. replace this machine with one that does work by May 30th, 2022, or
3. provide me a full refund by May 30th, 2022.

Woodmizer is hereby served notice that they have until May 30th 2022 to fix or replace this machine, or provide a full refund. Failure to provide a solution by the date specified will result in this machine being sent back to Woodmizer on June 01 and upon delivery, I will file a chargeback claim with the credit card company.
...

[Stephen1]

Today is another day and It's Monday. 
I hope you guys hear from Woodmizer  Today

[YellowHammer]

And make sure they pay for the shipping.....

[Crossroads]

[jimbarry]

Here is a Polish version of the electrical diagram for the BMS250 Woodmizer CBN sharpener I don't know if its for the "MU" (North American) version or the "AU" (Euro) version. Or both.

[jimbarry]

The circuit board on page 5 of that PDF is labeled "P.P.H. Sobanski" (upper left corner of the circuit board). That's the board that is in our first BMS250, it works. The second VBMS250 had a circuit board labeled "ELECTRYK".



 

Which was replaced at the request of WM with a Sobanski board because the ELECTRYK board had a 5A fuse in the F4 position. They said it was suppose to be in the F3 position so they sent another Sobanski board. As reported earlier that didn't work either. So a third board was sent, another "ELEKTRYK". Still didn't solve the problem.

[jimbarry]

I also want to point out something I discovered this morning, the gadget to the right (transformer?) is wired differently on the two machines. On the working machine "Sobanski", the green/yellow wire goes to the top orange plastic widget, into the left terminal.



 

On the machine that is not working, the "ELEKTRYK", the green/yellow wire goes to the top orange plastic widget, into the terminal on the right.



 

It came like that because I didn't touch those wires.  Maybe that could be a part of this issue, I don't know.

[MattM]

If the motor that pushes the blade forward works then the 12v transformer wiring is irrelevant.
Here is the circuit for the coolant pump...I did this on my phone so don't judge haha
You can see why at least the red jumper is necessary. And the orange is probably necessary as that little black fuse wire is 2amp and it looks to power the grinder motor (1.5amp) and needs the jumper to put some of the power through the other fuse (1.6amp) to power the coolant motor (1.1amp)

[MattM]

Something else I thought I'd mention is that if your grinder motor is working then there should be nothing nothing wrong with the relay that powers the pump.
Something you could do if you have a multimeter is put it on AC
-turn on the power and the pump switch
-put each prong of your meter on each of the pump motor outputs 
-if you have 100-120volts the pump or wiring to the pump is most likely the issue 

-if you have no power then do the following 
-put one prong of your multimeter on one of the 110v inputs and the other on each of the outputs to the pump.
-see if you get 100-120volts on one of them 
-if you do put one prong on the other 110v input 
-put the other on the one that did not read any power earlier 

This will let you know what circuit you have problem with or if you have no power through both circuits that goto the pump

[Crossroads]

So, this is interesting. When testing the input power I have 122v at L1 and the neutral above it. If I go the the ground bus in the bottom of the box, I have 163v on the hot side of the 5a fuse at f4. 

[jimbarry]

Something else I thought I'd mention ....

Appreciate the input @MattM . I am a complete luddite when it comes to electrical. These are two meters I have. I don't really know how to set them. Each time i used them, whoever I was talking with had to guide me each step along the way. As for inputs and outputs, you'd have to literally point them out or guide me over a phone call.



 

[melezefarmer]

Move the Dial to the 200v AC top right and move the red plug to the second plug hole.

[MattM]

I'd love to help on the phone..... But I need my phone to look at the schematic picture from here, the pdf schematics from Europe and the relay data sheet. I had to start making notes. After seeing those schematics I'm kinda disappointed that the over $3000 European made sharpener that I just order last month has the Chinese Export logo on it.... I'm not surprised, but I am disappointed....

To make things easier just use the clamp meter. Set it to the V with the squiggle next to it.

For the following tests it doesn't matter which lead (red or black) you put where.

With the machine on and pump one

Put one lead on 3 and one on 4, you should have 100-120 volts (verifys you have power and that your meters working right)

Put one on M2 Brown wire and one on M2 Blue wire should be 100-120v (tells you if there is power to the pump, if there is power here skip the next test because something is wrong with the pump or its wires)

Put one test lead on 3 and one on M2 Blue should be 110v

Put one lead on 4 the other on M2 Brown should be 110v ( if no voltage here then you need the jumpers on 3 to 5 and 4 to 6)


Hope this helps.... I offer no warranty on my advice haha

[Old Greenhorn]

Well, it's 6pm here on the east coast and I guess nobody heard back from WM today. That's disheartening.

[jimbarry]

...

To make things easier just use the clamp meter. Set it to the V with the squiggle next to it.

For the following tests it doesn't matter which lead (red or black) you put where.

With the machine on and pump one

Put one lead on 3 and one on 4, you should have 100-120 volts (verifys you have power and that your meters working right)

Put one on M2 Brown wire and one on M2 Blue wire should be 100-120v (tells you if there is power to the pump, if there is power here skip the next test because something is wrong with the pump or its wires)

Put one test lead on 3 and one on M2 Blue should be 110v

Put one lead on 4 the other on M2 Brown should be 110v ( if no voltage here then you need the jumpers on 3 to 5 and 4 to 6)


Hope this helps.... I offer no warranty on my advice haha

What I have circled is I believe are the M2 wires you mentioned. But I am not sure for the 3 and 4 refer to. ??


 

[MattM]

This is pics from our working machine.
Pumps wires are marked M2 on the bar at the bottom of the board, brown and blue wires.
A DVM did not produce anything. I have not much practical experience using a DVM other than what someone instructs me to do.


 
As for the jumpers, #5 jumps to #3.  And #6 jumps to #4.
Side view showing jumpers.


 
Pump specs of working machine


 
Pump specs of non working machine


 
Here's a picture of the spare "sobanski" circuit board  WM had sent to me to use to replace the original "elektryk" in the new machine. Still didn't work so they sent me another "elektryk". I am showing this so that you can see markings on the circuit board. I have other pictures at different angles should somebody want to see all the markings.


 
So far as I can tell, it's just the jumpers that are missing, as was pointed out to me earlier by @gmmills

Yup that's the M2's I was talking about. As for the numbers I was going off this picture you posted a while back, it's in the quote above. They're the ones labeled 230v

[jimbarry]

With the machine on and pump one

Put one lead on 3 and one on 4, you should have 100-120 volts (verifys you have power and that your meters working right)

Put one on M2 Brown wire and one on M2 Blue wire should be 100-120v (tells you if there is power to the pump, if there is power here skip the next test because something is wrong with the pump or its wires)

Put one test lead on 3 and one on M2 Blue should be 110v

Put one lead on 4 the other on M2 Brown should be 110v ( if no voltage here then you need the jumpers on 3 to 5 and 4 to 6)

• Machine on, both buttons (M1 and M2, see pg 4 of Electrical pdf)
• Pump on (M3, see pg 4 of Electrical pdf)
• Put one lead on 3 and one on 4, you should have 100-120 volts... reads 121-122V.
• Put one on M2 Brown wire and one on M2 Blue wire should be 100-120v... reads 0V.
• Put one test lead on 3 and one on M2 Blue... reads 82-83V
• Put one lead on 4 the other on M2 Brown... reads 5V.

 

[MattM]

With the machine on and pump one

Put one lead on 3 and one on 4, you should have 100-120 volts (verifys you have power and that your meters working right)

Put one on M2 Brown wire and one on M2 Blue wire should be 100-120v (tells you if there is power to the pump, if there is power here skip the next test because something is wrong with the pump or its wires)

Put one test lead on 3 and one on M2 Blue should be 110v

Put one lead on 4 the other on M2 Brown should be 110v ( if no voltage here then you need the jumpers on 3 to 5 and 4 to 6)

• Machine on, both buttons (M1 and M2, see pg 4 of Electrical pdf)
• Pump on (M3, see pg 4 of Electrical pdf)
• Put one lead on 3 and one on 4, you should have 100-120 volts... reads 121-122V.
• Put one on M2 Brown wire and one on M2 Blue wire should be 100-120v... reads 0V.
• Put one test lead on 3 and one on M2 Blue... reads 82-83V
• Put one lead on 4 the other on M2 Brown... reads 5V.

The bit of power your getting between the brown and 4 and the blue and 3 is most likely from the little jumper you can see on the right hand relay. The jumper connects the power coming from the black fuse ( grinder motor) to the other fuse line. If it were mine is put the jumpers in. But that's a personal choice, only do it if your comfortable doing it. ;D

[Crossroads]

I got a message back from Mr Floyd, apparently the engineers have found a sensor that is intermittently failing due to moisture. The interesting part is, I have yet to talk to anyone at Wm to tell them what my machine is/isn't doing. 🤔

[gmmills]

  The ELEKTRYK board in the non working machine has a jumper bar across the F4 location to complete circuit, no fuse. The F3 location has an actual fuse. The Sobanski board in the working machine is identically configured. The F3 fuse protects the oil pump circuit only. This circuit is powered through the 110V terminal. The 110VO terminal is ground circuit. When configured this way, the 110v circuit has to have a power source. Jumper from 230V terminal achieves this. You need to power this circuit in order for pump to work. I feel  you need to find a way to get jumpers installed.  

  Jim , you stated that you could not fit a 16 ga jumper wire into 230V terminal space. Were you sure that the terminal screw was backed out far enough? My machine has a Sobanski board and there is no issue adding the extra wire to terminal.


                  
   Note the stripped wire inserted on top of original.  Maybe the ELEKTRYK board has smaller terminal sockets. Wish I was able to be on site to help. I think we could get this pump issue repaired in 20 mins max. 

     

[MattM]

 The ELEKTRYK board in the non working machine has a jumper bar across the F4 location to complete circuit, no fuse. The F3 location has an actual fuse. The Sobanski board in the working machine is identically configured. The F3 fuse protects the oil pump circuit only. This circuit is powered through the 110V terminal. The 110VO terminal is ground circuit. When configured this way, the 110v circuit has to have a power source. Jumper from 230V terminal achieves this. You need to power this circuit in order for pump to work. I feel  you need to find a way to get jumpers installed.  

 Jim , you stated that you could not fit a 16 ga jumper wire into 230V terminal space. Were you sure that the terminal screw was backed out far enough? My machine has a Sobanski board and there is no issue adding the extra wire to terminal.


                 
  Note the stripped wire inserted on top of original.  Maybe the ELEKTRYK board has smaller terminal sockets. Wish I was able to be on site to help. I think we could get this pump issue repaired in 20 mins max.

   

Jumper or fuse link (essentially a smaller wire than the main circuit that melts when to much power passes through), cause it looks like a fuse link to me and the diagram and circuit board both call it a fuse. I could be wrong though.
Not quite sure what you mean by the 110VO being ground circuit? Do you mean you tested it with a meter and it had continuity with ground? If it did it's probably the neutral wire, sometimes neutral is bonded to ground sometimes not. 
You are right about those terminal blocks though sometimes you think you have those screws backed out a mile but in reality it's hardly out at all. Also sometimes it can be a bit of a nuisance to get a wire in past the wedge like clamp. Jim just make sure you back it out as far as you can and the try inserting the wire.

[jimbarry]

 

 



 

I spent about 30 mins at this before heading out to work. A 16 gauge didn't work so I got a piece of 18 gauge. Backed the screw out far enough that it would click, as you can see by the position of the screw in the photo above. Tried to fit in the factory wire, no go. So I screwed down to flatten the 18 gauge in the slot, backed it out all the way and tried fitting in the factory wire again. It will not fit. Either position, factory above or below the jumper. 

[newhollandnut]

Man!!!! My story is not much different. I ordered my BSM250 and setter last May. I got my 250 first. I ran down to Oakboro to pick it up. Brand new out of the box. I ran one blade through it and the advancer motor quit working right. It had no real speed control and a mind of its own. I spent countless hours on the phone with Jason from WM. We tried several things, but none worked. He sent parts out that I replaced. In the end, he agreed to send me a new sharpener. It came in and I went back to Oakboro to drop off the old one and pick up the new one. 

I had been putting off getting bands sharpened because I knew my sharpener was coming. At this point, I was having to buy new bands to keep up with my orders. WM in Oakboro is 3 months behind on sharping bands.

When I got home with the new sharpener, I unboxed it. It looked completely the same. I started putting the machine together and poured the oil into the pan only to realize the pan had an uncompleted weld and oil was leaking out. At this point, I didn't care due to the fact that I was on my last 5 sharp bands and had over a 100 that needed sharpening. I put the first band in and started the machine. It stopped almost as quickly as it started. The light on the second button went out. I realized it had blown a fuse. Of course, it is not a fuse you can just get at the auto parts store. So I ordered it off amazon for next-day delivery. When the new fuses came in I replaced it and within 30 seconds it blew. I spent more countless hours on the phone with WM. They said it was a power issue in my shop causing the sharpener to malfunction. I assured them that it was not a power issue. Jason said they could send an electrician out to test my power but if it turned out to be a power supply issue I  would be responsible for the electrician bill. I strongly encouraged this because I am confident it was not an issue with my power. When I did, he kinda backed out of that.

I reminded him that the first issue was with a 12-volt control and this issue is a 110 problem. Jason agreed to send a new pan and a replacement grinder motor that is on backorder with no end in sight. He did send me a box of bands at no charge. The problem with that is I will go through them in a week. I did get the replacement pan in and installed it. I have been trying to sharpen bands by replacing the fuse about every 5 minutes. Until...... the oil pump stopped!!!

I called WM back and spoke to Doug. He sent me a new pump that I just got this week. I installed the new pump and fuse and started to sharpen a band when it stopped. Fuse is good and I still have no power. I'm at a complete loss. I am a diehard WM man but I have never been so disappointed in a product. How do you get 2 machines back to back with different issues? How did any of these get through quality control? I too think I am going to ask for a full refund. The only problem is what do I do for sharp blades at this point?   

Also to be noted is the setter came in. It appears to be working properly.