“Board foot”

Osterman.r · October 09, 2022, 06:52:49 PM

Good evening guys, i have been sawing and selling quite a bit of lumber recently. Every order up until today has been dimensional. Today somebody asked for 1.5"x3.5" lumber. Do I charge them for 2"x4"? Or do I charge them for 1.5"x3.5"?

Also kind of on the same subject, I have 8' 10' 12' 14' and 16' logs in my log yard. Say somebody calls looking for an 8x8 beam 11 feet long, do I charge them for an 8x8x11? Or for an 8x8x12?
All of this based off of Thickness x Width x Length / 12 = Board Feet
1" T x 12" W x 1' L / 12 = 1 Board Foot

47sawdust · October 09, 2022, 06:57:11 PM

IMO charge full freight.
11' is 12 '
1.5x3.5 is 2x4

Magicman · October 09, 2022, 07:09:40 PM

This topic should create many different views and opinions. :D

I keep it simple and in 20 years of custom sawing and over 3MMbf, I have never been questioned nor disagreed with by a customer.

That stated, I so not sell anything except a sawing service. Actual dimensions and store bought are sawed at the same rate and all logs are scaled to the closest even footage, whether up or down.

My sawing contract clearly describes the above method of scaling. "Flat" lumber is almost always sawed full dimension and framing lumber is 99%+ sawed factory dimension. I doubt that I have sawed full sized framing lumber over 5-6 times and those were when a customer was matching old lumber on a renovation project.

SawyerTed · October 09, 2022, 07:28:01 PM

I agree, charge for full even lengths. Not charging for full length penalizes you because of the waste required for odd lengths. Don't give away board feet or eat the waste cost.

I'd say on dimensional vs nominal (1.5x3.5) it's your call. Because 1.5x3.5 actually increases yield from a log over full 2x4, charging based on actual doesn't hurt you if you are providing logs. It's fair to the customer if sawing their logs. But it's done both ways.

Ultimately it's what you and your customer agree to before the blade hits the first log.

moodnacreek · October 09, 2022, 07:49:34 PM

Odd lengths are allowed in hardwoods, in soft it is even or 2' increments. 1 1/2" is 1 1/2" rough cut. If it was dressed and 1 1/2" thick it would be called and charged for @ 2". The 3 1/2" width, because it is rough is 3 1/2" not 4". These are traditions and I think you should follow them. But what you charge is strictly your doing.

Deese · October 10, 2022, 01:53:07 AM

My 82 year old granddaddy has told me many times "There is nothing more important than a good understanding".

Be direct and clear with your customer, no matter how busy you are. Assuming he/she understands your way of doing business is a guaranteed way to create problems with someone down the road. It's just a matter of time.

It's incredibly simple. I charge the customer for what he asks for regarding width/thickness. On length, well...they are your logs. You cannot give them away if you wish to make money and continue sawing. If a customer wants 12' lengths but I only have 16' at that time, be up front with him. Tell him you must charge him for 16' material or he can wait until you get more 12' or 24'(25') logs delivered.

Charge extra if they want air dried lumber. You shouldn't sticker lumber for free. Just my opinion.

Cedarman · October 10, 2022, 06:43:50 AM

I charge for the actual dimension. For length, we keep a lot of tree length cedar on hand so 11', 13' is not a problem. Normally. But if someone wants 13' and all I have is 14', then I let them know the charge is for 14'. I normally quote a material list, so I price by the individual piece, but will tell them board foot costs if they ask.
Random width is board foot price. Under 1" is square foot price.
I charge based on 1" actual. If someone wants 1 1/8", then it is 1 1/8 times board foot price.
Not giving that 1/8" away. At $2.40 per board foot, you are looking at an extra $.30 per board foot.
As Deese said, make sure customer understands how you are charging and be clear on what they want.

bigblockyeti · October 10, 2022, 06:59:42 AM

This seems pretty cut and dry for dimensional lumber. What about unique shapes or do you cut only straight lumber? I cut a lot of crotch wood for benches and table tops. It might be 24" wide at one end and only 10"-12" at the other so this is typically something I'll put a random price on based on how it looks and a very conservative calculation of the bdft quantity. I know I'm selling myself short but I'm not sure if there's a better way for unique pieces.

WV Sawmiller · October 10, 2022, 08:10:07 AM

Do you have a published rate? If so that is what I would charge, I bill 1.5" as 6/4 lumber.

If I already had the 12' log in stock I'd cut the 8X8 and bill it as 12' and tell him it required a 12' log. In my case I would probably have to cut a tree and I could cut an 11' log and bill it as 11' without any loss.

moodnacreek · October 10, 2022, 08:12:00 AM

Quote from: bigblockyeti on October 10, 2022, 06:59:42 AM
This seems pretty cut and dry for dimensional lumber. What about unique shapes or do you cut only straight lumber? I cut a lot of crotch wood for benches and table tops. It might be 24" wide at one end and only 10"-12" at the other so this is typically something I'll put a random price on based on how it looks and a very conservative calculation of the bdft quantity. I know I'm selling myself short but I'm not sure if there's a better way for unique pieces.

The traditional rules are for traditional sizes and when there has been no discussion between the seller and the buyer. That's why there has to be rules, so you can quote a price and go rather than talk all day. Anything out of the ordinary the seller prices as he wants not by any scale. I price live edge thick and wide by what I know someone will pay for that individual piece.

doc henderson · October 10, 2022, 09:48:18 AM

@Cedarman what are you charging per board foot for custom sawn cedar? I have an order I finished after the "customer" has waited 8 months or so, till I got more logs. He wanted 10 full size 2 x 4 by 9 foot, and 20 full size 1 x 6 by 8 feet. I over filled the order as ERC can be less than perfect. I thought I would charge him full price for the order he placed by the board foot, and throw in some extra, or a lesser price for the lot. This is a friend of a friend and I want to be fair. but this is not a favor for a friend of mine. I quoted customer as I am a hobby guy, but do not mind getting a fair price to offset my cost and time.

In part the outside cull boards are to protect the best heartwood boards inside.

doc henderson · October 10, 2022, 09:50:13 AM

i also know that yield on ERC is less than other logs due to natural defects and "lobulations" in the tree/log. Is it 33% reduction in yield?

Jeff · October 10, 2022, 11:51:52 AM

If I was cedarman, id only answer that question in private then only maybe. Different customers may have different prices based on different criteria, such as a difficult customer rate, a buddy rate, or any other subjective reasons known only to the seller.

At our mill, we had a "if you call and ask for prices with a German accent" rate.

doc henderson · October 10, 2022, 12:12:18 PM

good point, as a hobby guy I do not charge max, and often get extra anyway. I thought it fit with the thread, at least the % off for ERC part, but will see via a PM if he is more comfortable. Just trying to be fair, but a good and valid point Jeff, thanks. Danke.

47sawdust · October 10, 2022, 04:18:12 PM

Was that German accent a good thing or a bad thing?

doc henderson · October 10, 2022, 07:04:36 PM

I bet it was not good! :D

Peter Drouin · October 10, 2022, 08:41:51 PM

Charging for air will get you way ahead on $$$ and BF.
2x4x8 = 5.3 BF 1 1/2x 3 1/2x8 = 3.5 BF
If you cut 100 with air, you're 180 BF ahead for free $$$
Here at A&P saw Mill, we charge for what it is. If someone wants 3/4" I just adjust the $$ for sawing or selling.
I don't charge for air.
You might get 2 customers, one wants box store size, the other wants full size. If they meet and see, they paid the same for the wood. It will look bad on you, even if you said. I cut air and charge full size.
I only have even numbered logs and sell that way. Sawing there's If it's 13' they get charge the extra foot.
I just don't feel good about it. But do what you want, and good luck.

Jeff · October 10, 2022, 09:09:18 PM

Quote from: 47sawdust on October 10, 2022, 04:18:12 PM
Was that German accent a good thing or a bad thing?

They only called to see what we were charging so they could charge less. Non of the overhead an english sawmill has.

Deese · October 10, 2022, 09:21:59 PM

I made a mistake this afternoon. A customer pulled in late this evening just before dark with three 18' bald cypress logs. He asked what I charged and I gave him the BF price. He said okay I want as many 1/2"x8"x18's as you can get and without thinking I said no problem. It was getting dark and we both were ready to go home.

I rarely...almost never get requests for 1/2" thick lumber. I didn't realize my error until I got home. Twice as many passes through the log. Twice as much fuel. Twice as much time....etc. I'm just glad that it's only three 14"-18" diameter logs and not thirty three logs.

I don't think I would have doubled my BF rate but possibly an increase of 25%-35%. However, logically speaking, double the work and double the cost of operating validates doubling the bf rate...

What are your thoughts?
Charging by the hour? Absolutely not.

LeeB · October 10, 2022, 09:29:55 PM

Typically anything under 1" is charged at the 1" price. For 1/2" thickness a 5 BF board would be charges as 10 BF, same as if it were 1" thick. I saw only by the hour so thinner costs more per BF.