Splitter Failure

mitchstockdale · April 19, 2023, 08:31:13 PM

Hi Fellas,

I need to draw on your hydraulic expertise in diagnosing a problem with my splitter.

I was out splitting tonight and starting the last split actuating the valve forward and the ram took off like a shot about halfway. I jumped and let go of the lever. Then pulled it again and it shot out the rest of the way and then stalled the engine. I started it back up and tried to reverse the ram but it still wanted to go forward at lightning speed and stalled the engine out again.

I m only speculating but I figure the problem is with a broken seal in the control valve... does this sound right?

I figure the cylinder would likely not move if it was an internal seal but i honestly dont know.

Any ideas would be great...Also it's been a while since I have posted...glad the forum is still going

, thanks.

Mitch

LabHusqvarna · April 19, 2023, 08:33:55 PM

My first guess would be too much air in the system due to low hydraulic oil. Maybe change your oil and see if that fixes it.

Southside · April 19, 2023, 08:44:18 PM

Calling @fluidpowerpro

mitchstockdale · April 19, 2023, 08:46:51 PM

Ahh dang never thought of air being in the system. I did recently change the hydraulic filter and used a shop vac on the vent to keep from losing fluid...and fluid is a bit low.

Wlmedley · April 19, 2023, 09:57:26 PM

Most likely the piston seals are blown on your cylinder.When the seals are blown the rod will go out no matter which port oil goes in because piston side of cylinder has the most surface area.It could also be that the nut has came off of end of rod letting piston come off.Would do the same thing.To check and make sure unhook both lines at cylinder and with rod all the way out blow air in port on piston side and if air comes out other port tear cylinder apart.

barbender · April 19, 2023, 09:59:14 PM

I'm thinking along the same lines as Wlmedley.

Wlmedley · April 19, 2023, 10:11:16 PM

Being you say rod comes out really fast I suspect nut has came off end off rod.Is wedge going all the way out and hitting foot?If nut has came off when putting lever in extend position oil will go through center of piston and push rod out and when putting in retract position instead of pushing piston back whole cylinder is pressurized and rod still goes out.Pretty sure cylinder is your problem.

Southside · April 19, 2023, 11:03:28 PM

I am guessing you have a two stage gear pump on your splitter, and that both pumps are engaged at high pressure since your engine is stalling out. If the nut had backed off the piston gland then the rod would not have stopped at the end of the cylinder, rather it would be trying to fall out of the end.

Definitely not air in the system. I am guilty of running more than a couple of systems low on oil and I have always lost capacity and speed when that happens, not gained acceleration.

Wlmedley · April 19, 2023, 11:17:11 PM

I'm thinking rod would come completely out if not for foot on the bottom.My splitter stops just short of hitting foot.After thinking about it a little more when control lever is pulled one port always ported back to tank so I don't know how a lot of pressure could build up but I'd still check cylinder out first.

fluidpowerpro · April 19, 2023, 11:28:39 PM

If I were a betting man I'd put my money on either the nut holding the piston on came off, or the rod broke at the nut.

doc henderson · April 19, 2023, 11:32:58 PM

why is the valve not bypassing at max pressure instead of killing the motor. I think it is the valve. pull the lines on the cylinder and see if you can cycle it forward and back with air pressure.

fluidpowerpro · April 19, 2023, 11:51:29 PM

I agree that testing the cylinder with air would be a good thing to do. Just make sure the cylinder is still mounted in the splitter. If the nut is off or the rod broke, filling it with air can cause the rod to fly out like a missile. ( Don't ask how I know this).
As far as the engine stalling, the first place I would look is the unloading valve that is built into the pump. If that is stuck, the high flow section of the pump won't unload and you will likely stall the engine.
Is there by chance a pressure gauge in the system?

Southside · April 19, 2023, 11:58:28 PM

So it's either the piston, the valve, or the pump. Great we eliminated the tires as a possible source of your trouble. See how much help the FF is! :D

Wlmedley · April 20, 2023, 12:01:12 AM

I bet if you pull cylinder off machine rod is going to come all the way out ( be careful).I think piston has came off rod and when you extend piston is jamming back up on rod and when you retract piston is running back to other end of cylinder and mostly sealing return port and then cylinder is building pressure and shooting rod out.

Wlmedley · April 20, 2023, 12:04:24 AM

Southside,you didn't mention the engine.It may be weak :laugh:

fluidpowerpro · April 20, 2023, 12:10:07 AM

Quote from: Southside on April 19, 2023, 11:58:28 PM
So it's either the piston, the valve, or the pump. Great we eliminated the tires as a possible source of your trouble. See how much help the FF is! :D

We are also quick to help othets spend money. That being the case, I think the solution is to go get a new splitter. I've always been impressed with Easton Made. :D

rusticretreater · April 20, 2023, 02:15:57 AM

Either the nut came off the end of the rod and the piston is floating free in the cylinder or the piston seal has given way. There is no counterforce to regulate the speed of the cylinder extending and also no way to retract the cylinder.

You can confirm this by the following:

With the engine off, you can push the rod back into the cylinder. You may have to hold the lever open.
Start the engine and move the lever to the retract setting.

If the piston is not attached to the rod or the seal is broken, the entire cylinder will pressurize instead of just one side and the rod will extend.

You can probably find a replacement at surpluscenter.com easily.

mitchstockdale · April 20, 2023, 07:48:34 AM

@Southside , @Wlmedley , @fluidpowerpro , @barbender , @doc henderson , @rusticretreater

Thank you kindly for the great info. I will try diagnosing the cylinder first and report back.

mitchstockdale · April 20, 2023, 09:25:58 AM

Quote from: rusticretreater on April 20, 2023, 02:15:57 AM
Either the nut came off the end of the rod and the piston is floating free in the cylinder or the piston seal has given way. There is no counterforce to regulate the speed of the cylinder extending and also no way to retract the cylinder.

You can confirm this by the following:

With the engine off, you can push the rod back into the cylinder. You may have to hold the lever open.
Start the engine and move the lever to the retract setting.

If the piston is not attached to the rod or the seal is broken, the entire cylinder will pressurize instead of just one side and the rod will extend.

You can probably find a replacement at surpluscenter.com easily.

I did as you detailed.. reset the rod and started up the engine on low idle, moved the valve in to retract position and the cylinder went forward then tried the forward position and still went forward...so i guess the rod must not be attached. I am going to check with the local machine shop to see what it might cost to fix. Thanks, i'll be back with more details.

Wlmedley · April 20, 2023, 10:30:20 AM

We never did find out what kind of splitter you have.Basing troubleshooting on a simple single spool system. I would make sure cylinder is the problem before taking it anywhere.We are making assumptions without knowing exactly what you have.Let us know what you find.

mitchstockdale · April 20, 2023, 12:22:09 PM

The splitter is from Canadian Tire here in Canada.. the ugly teal green and all.

I brought the cylinder to my local shop this morning and the fella threw it up on the healing bench and pulled the rod right out...the nut had come off...you guys were right.

Thank you kindly for the help..its good to add this experience to my bag of knowledge. I will report back with how the fix went.

Wlmedley · April 20, 2023, 12:29:38 PM

Good deal.Glad we steered you in the right direction.Thanks for letting us know what you found.Sometimes we never hear back and the discussion goes on forever ???

Southside · April 20, 2023, 12:37:46 PM

Well I was wrong on the pump, but at least I called it on not being related to the tires. :D

Hilltop366 · April 20, 2023, 01:23:42 PM

If you run the cylinder all the way out and take off the gland end hose and push the control the same way again you will get oil out the cylinder port if the seal is bad, piston not on rod or rod broken if the cylinder is good there should be no pressure at the port.

Hopefully it is the piston nut/bolt and no damage to the rest, a wrench and some loctite and your good to go.

mitchstockdale · April 21, 2023, 09:07:52 AM

I picked up the cylinder last night all fixed. They reattached the rod to the piston and replaced a couple seals. I re-installed on the splitter topped up the fluid and everything is back to normal.

Thanks again for all the help. Much appreciated. I hope this thread can help someone in the future that has limited knowledge like myself.