Anyone experiment with alternative energy?

[Coon]

OK, That stove is a regular wood stove, except it is made of tubes welded together. It form a wall in winch the air is warmed. If you put a fan at the bottom, the air ejected will be very hot. But, is it better than a regular low combustion ? I dont know. I did not make that stove, a friend gave it to me 20 years ago. I dont think you can find it any more, it is from the seventies period, you know that period we had long hairs, and some people smoked funny tobacco ? :D
Tox

Until the late 70's I was but a glimmer in my daddies eyes so to say :D :D

I would really like to see some more pics of that stove to get a better idea of how it was built.  That stove looks like it could be adapted in some sort of way in which you could force hot air into some kind of duct work just as a furnace does.  If one could put a heat sensor in it to cut in and out when the temperature is up.  The stove looks on the smaller side but if you could get something like that to work on that scale then I don't see any reason as to why you couldn't build a large one to heat the whole house with one unit.
??? ???

[toxedo_2000]

Coon
I remember there were 3 sizes for that stove. I have the smaller one. I'll try to find the book (where the hell I put it ?). I think it is at the cabin. Cannot go before spring, I sold my chopper ! :-\
Anyway, you're right about the heat sensor. I'll try to find other pics where you could have a better look at it.
Tox

[Coon]

That would be great Tox.  I am always trying to build things better than the production lines built them, or atleast that's what I think. ;D  That stove has given me an idear........    I will have to contemplate on it for a while before I mention it.  I have to see for myself if it would work (in my mindset) and then I will ask forum members for their thoughts. ??? ??? :P

[twistedtree]

twistedtree,

I'd be very interested in more details about your solar system.  We just finished a passive solar home and would like to consider active solar if we could find a system that is cost effective.  The down side is that we have electricity at the site already, but we would be willing to look at other alternatives.

So far it looks like the cost of electricity each month will only be about $30, but that is only after 1 month of living there. 

My system is relatively small with about 700W of panels.  They charge the batteries (24V, 800AH) using an Outback Charge controller.  AC is provided using a Trace 4KW sinewave inverter.  I also have an Onan 4KW RV generator mounted in a shed for backup.  The Trave Inverter controls it automatically when there is a heavy load on the system, or the batteries get too low.

When we are at the house, with the TV going, laundry running, etc. I need to run the generator periodically.  I really need more panels to fully cover the load.  But since we use the place mostly on the weekends the system has plenty of time to recover during the week.

I also designed everything for low power consumption.  For example, the heat is circulating hot water.  The curculators don't draw much power compared to forced hot air blowers.  Electric heat is completely out, of course.  My fridge is propane, not electric, since that's another large load in a normal house.  All the lights are compact floresent.

All in all it works very well for our needs, but when we move there full time we will need to add more panels and add the micro hydro for winter coverage.   At the same time, we have all the conveniences including washer/dryer (propane dryer), microwave, TV/DVD/VCR, radios, dishwasher, etc.  At the risk of offending, it completely passes the "wife test" - she can use the place without having to tinker or fuss with the system - it's all automatic and transparent.

Someone mentioned solar trackers.  These devices change the tilt and orientation of the solar panels so the face the sun as it tracks across the sky.  As a general rule of thumb, they only pay for themselves when you are in a high-sun location like Arizona or New Mexico.  In thise areas there is enough gain to make the cost of the devices worth while.  In other climated, like Vermont where I am, there is not much gain, and money is better spent on more panels.

If you have grid power, you can install what's called a grid-tied system.  It's just panels and an inverter that ties into the commmercial power.  Surplus power goes back into the grid and, depending on your state regulations, earns you credit on your electric bill.  If you need more power than the solar generates, like at night, you draw from the grid.  Batteries are not required and eliminate a significant chunk of cost, and the primary source of maintenance in an off-grid system like mine.  No batteries means no backup power when the grid fails, but for many people that's a reasonable tradeoff given the cost savings.  Only you can decide if you want to generate your own power, provide backup power, or both.  Once you've decided, you can design a system accordingly.

Check out www.homepower.com.  It's  great magazine dedicated to the subject.  Mother Earth news is a good way to draw interest in the subject, but their articles tend to be introductory-only, and too superficial to guide you in actually doing anything.

[toxedo_2000]

Coon,
There are the pics
You can have a better look at it
Tox

[Coon]

As I was saying last night that I have an idear.....  Why couldn't one build a simple wood burning unit that has smoke baffles in the firebox just before it exits through the chimney.  (This particular concept is done by most manufacturers) The chimney is therefore built in such a way that it is coiled around and around leaving say either a 6" or 8" tunnel.  Inside this tunnel you install a fan on a heat sensor that cuts in and out as the smoke warms the pipe.??  Does this seem like a realistic concept?  There should be little to no smoke coming out of the chimney  as much of the remaining heat from within the smoke is used up.  Has anyone tried this concept? Does anyone have such a system they could show??

[WH_Conley]

If you cool the smoke down that much, wouldn't you have trouble with cresote?

[getoverit]

I dont know why I havent clicked on this thread before..... WOW !

Cool projects, cool pictures, and bucket loads of good info !

Thanks Guys!

[Tom_Averwater]

Toxedo, That is a neat stove you have there. I wonder if a guy could run water through those pipes to make a hot  water  type furnace ? Just an idea .

[toxedo_2000]

Toxedo, That is a neat stove you have there. I wonder if a guy could run water through those pipes to make a hot  water  type furnace ? Just an idea .

It is a good idea. But the pipes have a too big diameter, in my opinion (2 1/2 inches). If somebody wants to built one, it woud be better to use a smaller pipe interlacing the bigger one. Or maybe he could roll a small (3/4 or 1 inch) pipe like a long coil spring. He would run water from one end to the other, then to a tank. The fire inside the stove formed by the rolled pipe would be very efficient.
Yeah ! Good idea.
Tox smiley_bouncing_pinky

[DanG]

I hope you folks are following the "Global Warming" thread along with this one.  It's a good'un too, and is exploring more alternatives. ;)

Cool (or warm?) place you have there, Tox.  I like that stove, too.  It reminds me of a rig they used to sell back in that same time period.  It was a grate for a fireplace that was made from tubing.  The tubes were bent into an arc with the ends sticking out into the room.  The lower end had a manifold on them with a small blower to push air through the tubes.  Looked like a fine idea, but probably didn't last all that long.

[beenthere]

.....  It reminds me of a rig they used to sell back in that same time period.  It was a grate for a fireplace that was made from tubing.  The tubes were bent into an arc with the ends sticking out into the room.  The lower end had a manifold on them with a small blower to push air through the tubes.  Looked like a fine idea, but probably didn't last all that long.

DanG right DanG.

The fire would burn through the tubing, and then the blower would blow hot coals and sparks into the room. They lasted longer if buried in the ashes, so the hot coals were not right against the tubing.

[Coon]

I don't know if cresote would be a problem because if you use good seasoned wood you don't get very much cresote build up in any other type of wood heater or stove.  I have never really had much of an experience with cresote building up too much in the past because I always ensure that I have plenty of seasoned wood on hand.  This is my first year burning dry wood that I have not seasoned myself so I guess that the question as to whether it would build up in that case is still at stake?  Does anyone have any better knowledge on this????

[Ernie]

Danny S

This is a link to a NZ company that makes generators out of the "Smart Drive" units from F&P Washing machines, Cheap and interesting.

http://www.ecoinnovation.co.nz/

[Gary_C]

Coon

The problem with heat reclaimers in flues is the water vapor from the combustion will condense as you lower the flue gas temperature. The resultant liquid is very acidic and will corrode just about anything except some types of stainless steels. It take some very careful design to avoid the corrosion problems. To a certain extent, most all burners today try to utilize as much heat in the flue gas as they can without having severe problems.

[Karl_N.]

Hello,

Energy has been very much on my mind lately. I'm finding it very difficult to keep my house warm without constantly running my batteries down and running my propane sucking generator. I've got a good sized solar system but perhaps made a mistake in thinking the circulator on my outdoor boiler plus the 4 zone circs wouldn't be that much of a load. Consequently I don't run it constantly as they (CB) recommend I do. I've been waiting on a medium sized wind generator for about 3 months now. Every time the wind blows steady, which is often at my house, I tense up just a bit. Being off the grid doesn't make me more energy conscious, it makes me energy crazy!

I'm still swinging though- I've got an extra panel and two batteries from my cordwood place with a repaired inverter on the way. I'll plug the boiler into that when convenient and share the load a bit. The windmill, should it ever get here will help of course. I got a new fireplace called a Bellfire that I've got to wake up around 2 or 3  to stoke up and a nice big old Fisher down in the basement. Finally, I got a message today saying my insulated blinds are in. I've got big windows and lots of them on the south side of my house, great when the sun is out, terrible when it isn't. I'm looking for a miracle with these blinds.

Perhaps one day soon, I won't have to hear my wife say "Why is it so cold in here?"

Thanks for letting me vent!

[Danny_S]

I found lots of good information on windmills at this link..  http://www.scoraigwind.com/

[Fla._Deadheader]

Might be lots of information, but, it ain't all good. As for windpower, you MUST get the machine a minimum of 30' above all trees ,buildings, or, whatever else, within 100', or you get turbulent air.

  The Engineering Dept at the College in Fayetteville Arkansas, installed a wind machine on the roof of their building. It didn't work. We tried our DanGest to show 'em where they messed up, OR, to buy the unit, but, nOOooooooooooo.. Windpower doesn't work. They proved it.  >:( >:( >:(

  We installed over 25 units from 200 watt, to 4000 watt output. 4000 watt rig I built from scratch. We set up several Solar Panel units and Solar-Wind combos. Had batteries from the phone company that weighed over 400 pounds per cell and had 1465 amps at 2volts capacity. Also used forktruck batteries, the best option, as, you can't hardly damage them.

  If anyone is gonna setup an alternative energy operation, DO NOT skimp on cheap batteries. Don't care what anyone says, we tried 'em all, including them die hard jobs. Forktruck batteries is the way to go. Just need a box to hold 'em, because of the ''milk jug'' type cell enclosure.

  Solar Panels don't need a ''Regulator'' unless you have a big bank or Panels. Just need a Diode to prevent backfeed during dark times.

[toxedo_2000]

Might be lots of information, but, it ain't all good. As for windpower, you MUST get the machine a minimum of 30' above all trees ,buildings, or, whatever else, within 100', or you get turbulent air.

 

Well, I'll try with this to get above everything


It is my new chopper. I flew it back home from L.A. Then had it paint the exact same scheme as the previous one.
What a nice windmill. The electricity produced is not the cheapest though, I can tell you ! smiley_eek_dropjaw
Tox

[sprucebunny]

That is a handsome machine, Tox ;D Is it larger than the other one ?

Maybe you can invent a windmill that you can store/transmit (!) energy to as you fly :D

[stumpy]

I have a cabin in Northern Wisconsin that is off the grid. I have a 24vDC/120VAC  inverter with 8 deep cyle 6v batteries. It can supply all our lights and the well pump for the weekend. On Sunday morning we fire up a generator to charge them back up. This summer we will be adding a couple of solar panels to supplement the batteries and to charge them when we're gone. I love the system and best part is, no utility bills or power outages.

[toxedo_2000]

That is a handsome machine, Tox ;D Is it larger than the other one ?

Maybe you can invent a windmill that you can store/transmit (!) energy to as you fly :D

That kit is already there. They call it an alternator and a battery. ;D The only problem is to unwind a wire long enough to have the refrigerator working well  : Just kidding Sprucebunny...

But the machine is exactly the same as the previous one, even the color (a little lighter red maybe) with a hydraulic system for the collective and cyclic. Inside is the same grey, 7 holes panel instead of the 9 hole panel I had before.
Tox

[dail_h]

   Benn nosing around a bit,getting tired of high price ,low reliability. I want something that I buy once! Currently looking at a windmill design from otherpower.com I think,and a Lister diesil ,or a clone to pull a genset. Once again,my wife says I crazy

[Fla._Deadheader]

Dail, did'ja check out the Bergey's Wind generators ??  Very simple design and we sold a bunch of 'em in Arkansas and Oklahoma.

  2 sealed bearings on the armature and bushings on the tail. No other moving parts.  8)

[dail_h]

   Gotta link for'em DH ? I like to think I can build one like the guy on otherpower did. Would be cheaper ,and kinda neat too ,but a lot to be said for bolt'er up,an let'er go ;D