60" portable mill

[fmccoy63]

I hope this works. https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38081/thumb_20141111_092231_resized_1.jpg

[drobertson]

Little  hard to see,,

[fmccoy63]

yes I am having a hard time with the pictures https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38081/20141111_092123_resized_1.jpg[/img]

[fmccoy63]

My plan is to mount a 87" chainsaw bar where the circle blade is and run it with about 50 horsepower and make big slabs, and cut large oak timbers with it. I have ripped a 2x12 with it to see that it functions but am waiting on inserts and bits to replace before I try a log.

[beenthere]

Your pics are in your gallery just fine.
All you need to do to put them in your post is to click on "Modify" to open your post, click on the line below to get to your gallery, select the pic you want, then SCROLL down the page until you see the couple ways to put that pic in your post.

Such as clicking on "Insert image in Post" button when you scroll down.


 

[Ron Wenrich]

Wouldn't it be easier to buy a dedicated slabber?  Some of those models you can actually plane the slab after it is dried.  You set the mill up over the log.  You don't have the problem of what happens to the slab when it falls, and you don't have to fuss with log handling.

Are you talking about making timbers with a chain saw or the circle saw?  Also, if you put in new inserts (shanks), you'll need to get the saw hammered.

[Ianab]

What Ron says. If you have the engineering skills to make that work, you will be able to build a 4 stroke powered chainsaw mill much easier.

These are commercial units, but it's not rocket science here.
http://petersonsawmills.com/products/dws/
http://leftcoastsupplies.com/product/model-dsm-18/

Note how the long chainsaw bar is supported at each end, otherwise it's going to wander in the cut.  Also log and sawn slab handling is much simpler. The log doesn't move, and the slab is left safely sitting on the log, where it can be slid off onto a forklift or tractor forks and taken away.

[fmccoy63]

how much is a dedicated slab mill? I have it already except it will ony cut about 27", stand a 120" chainsaw bar up and put a little tension on it from the top and I think that machine in the picture will slab a 10 ft. diameter log 20 ft long. I may be wrong, we will see and I will post pics unless some sort of catastrophe happens tomorrow when I (cross your fingers) cut the first log with it. re-peen a blade just because you put new bits in it? never heard anyone say a word about that. I have ran it the way it is with 9 teeth missing and 4 of them are right in a row and I ripped a 2x12 into 1/2 inch strips, granted that isn't a log, we will see soon though

[fmccoy63]

and no disrespect but this project aint much on requiring engineering skills, the engineer is the one who drew it up to have that 60" blade flying around at 650 rpm and kept everything straight and true

[js2743]

 :P

[Ianab]

To answer your questions, a bit over $10k for a commercial unit, all built and ready to go. But you can build one MUCH cheaper with used material and your own labour.

Now your current arbour is spinning  650 rpm. A large chainsaw sprocket on a harvester bar will spin at more like 6,000 rpm to keep the chain speed up. So you have some engineering to make that happen.

Then you are moving the log? A 60" x 16 ft walnut log weighs about 8 tons. The mill carriage is going to support and move that?

I'm not knocking the mill. It looks to be in pretty good condition, and you should be able to get it cutting regular boards and beams again without too much fuss, and you can cut a good amount of wood per day with a machine like that.

But the mechanics of cutting and handling big logs and slabs is a whole other kettle of fish.

[Ron Wenrich]

I ran a production hardwood mill for 30 years.  Trust me on hammering the saw.  You may get away with it, but experience tells me you probably won't.  Missing teeth won't mean that you can't cut wood.  You won't be able to cut as fast, and you'll ruin the shoulders if you do it long enough. 

The carriage you have won't handle a 10' diameter log.  It will be lucky to handle a 4' log.  You better figure out how you're going to hold the log and how to turn it.  Slabs are going to be a couple hundred pounds.  That's about the same as a RR tie.  Who's going to catch that on the other side of the cut?  Wide slabs that are dropped can split. 

Maybe the engineering isn't so great on the chain side, but what happens on either side of the saw also has to be engineered in.

[DMcCoy]

how much is a dedicated slab mill? I have it already except it will ony cut about 27", stand a 120" chainsaw bar up and put a little tension on it from the top and I think that machine in the picture will slab a 10 ft. diameter log 20 ft long. I may be wrong, we will see and I will post pics unless some sort of catastrophe happens tomorrow when I (cross your fingers) cut the first log with it. re-peen a blade just because you put new bits in it? never heard anyone say a word about that. I have ran it the way it is with 9 teeth missing and 4 of them are right in a row and I ripped a 2x12 into 1/2 inch strips, granted that isn't a log, we will see soon though

Wow, nice looking mill, it would be a shame to chop it up.

Your missing teeth might have been an effort to get the blade to run without wobbling instead of getting it hammered.  Like mentioned above running it without teeth is going to wear out the bit seating as it strikes the wood without really cutting.  If the seats are enough below the cutting circumference that they don't hit then tooth #5 is going to take a 5x cut - lots of pressure especially if you happen to hit a knot.  I have never had a blade spit teeth but I hear of it happening.  My seat of the pants figuring puts the rim speed at 10,205 feet per min or 170 feet per second.   It your call I would get the blade fixed before doing any serious sawing with it.

You are talking about using a vertical bar and selling slabs?  I think you are going to damage the edges of your slabs as they fall off.  Never sold slabs before but don't they want good natural edges?  That is an old mill designed for making lumber not artsy slabs.  Bunged up wane isn't an issue with dimensional lumber.

What you can do and what is going to get you what you want I think are two different ideas and approaches.  When I get into these kinds of situations I go back to 'begin with the end in mind' and it becomes clearer what to do.  Either way good luck and nice mill -

[Dave Shepard]

There is a reason those dedicated slabbers have the log stationary and the sawhead moves. There is plenty of engineering required to design something, if you want it to work when you are done.

[fmccoy63]

80 horse skidloader ought to handle slabs, 22 1/2 ton Austin western all terrain crane ought to handle harvesting and setting any log. If my measurements are correct, I ihink there is about 40 inches of bed on the carriage, so that would be about an 80 inch log split in 1/2? as far as teeth my supplier told me to never run w/o teeth because it erodes the v notch in the blade and then inserts and teeth get sloppy fit. he told me to put teeth in it and run it and see how it does. it may need tensioned may not. the dedicated slab mill I looked at was about  wore out and they wanted 13K for it, but it ran 6 in bands, and was quite a machine. I gave 2500 for this mill. I have been talking to an old timer who says they ran a log through the mill, left it setting on the carriage and climbed up there and met the kerf with a chainsaw on giant logs, his machine is an old Frick on wood. I doubt I ever see a 60 inch log, the 120" isn't really feasible, just threw that out there cuz that's the longest bar anyone makes. If you don't have to Macgiver it, there aint much fun in it. I am new to all this, I am sure I will make many mistakes and cuss myself a lot. power- snowmobile motor, love joy, jack shaft to drive sprocket. I will not cut any of the mill up. remove arbor and blade and stand the bar up vertical . I do not exactly know how I will keep from damaging slabs.

[backwoods sawyer]

We ran a top rail carrige with twin vertical double cut bandmills in a stud mill with a max cut of 42". on the thru cut the 4" cants would each drop onto live roll cases, some slabs would stand up for 20' before slamming down onto the rolls, the back cut would drop down a slope sheat to a set of transfre chains, the floor man would hold the pike pole against the uper corner until the other end was cut loose. This allowed the wide slabs slide down a 18" slope sheet and onto the camel back chains to transfer to another live roll case where they headed off into the rest of the system.

by holding the upper corner the cants would not tip over and brake apart as the slat beds in the bandmills moved the slab away from the saw and a live roll gave it momentum to get the tail end to the transfer chains. The camel back transer chains never damadged the edges. 

[Ron Wenrich]

Am I reading it right that you think you can put an 80" log on that carriage and split it in half with a long saw blade?  I'm not understanding your log breakdown process.

[fmccoy63]

i saw a picture of a fellow standing up on a big cottonwood log, maybe 7 or 8 ft, with a chainsaw meeting the kerf from the circle blade to split the log in two, if i have a a 7 ft bar, with a little tension pulled on the bar from the top to keep it straight, i do not see how it won't work. they have hot chainsaws with v-8 motors on them. my undone plan is to run a 600 cc triple with the use of a jackshaft and stand the bar up right where the circle blade stands now. would it not be easier to keep the bar running straight and true if it was standing up? a 7 ft bar has to get a little bow in it when it is running horizontal? especially a single power head one? as far as damage from the slabs coming off, they are going to need mucho work anyways, i refinished gym floors as a youngster and am leaning towards one of those machines. you run them like a power trowel for concrete. this is all kindof pipe dreams, for now i have access to more Burr Oak than you can shake a stick at to saw into timbers. how would a fellow go about marketing a semi load of timbers to get some income flowing fast?

[fmccoy63]

my eyes have always been bigger than my stomach. if i can set it up with a 5 ft bar and slab up some 30" up to 4 ft or so i will be tickled to death. from what i have seen it turns the wood into much more money, especially stuff that would go to firewood because of all the knots and "character" people love in slabs, should i try to do a semi load of timbers as a circle mill, or a few nice slabs a day with a Macgiver'd up slab mill?  i am old and lazy, easy choice for me

[Ron Wenrich]

Most of the dedicated slabbers have a 60" bar.  But, I can't see what you're trying to do with the carriage as being either practical or safe.  If you think you're going to split logs on that carriage, you'll end up with a piece coming off that weighs tons.  I've been in mills where they did split logs.  They had top saws for those that were too big for just a bottom saw.  This was in a stave mill where quarter sawing was a must for whiskey kegs.

Another problem you will have is the ability to dog the logs.  Those top dogs are ok, but you'll have problems dogging really large logs.  Getting a good bite on them is problematic.  One thing that always scared me with big logs is if they moved while in the cut.  I ran a mill with hydraulic top and bottom dogs, and still had problems with some logs. 

Cutting slabs is good, if you have a market.  You can cut some, and hope that the market comes to you.  But, if you're retrieving pieces that are knotty, you'll have a problem with them being flat after they're dry.  I guess you'll try to dress them up with your chain saw.  Dogging becomes more of a problem. 

I've cut some wide boards on a circle mill.  One thing that I had to always be careful of was the board splitting when it fell over.  I guess you can engineer a system that would resolve that.  Much easier to do with a slabber, as they don't drop boards. 

As far as cutting timbers vs cutting slabs depends on your market.  If you're cutting slabs on speculation but have a proven timber market, I'd go with the timbers.   The lack of cash flow and the keeping of high dollar inventories are the difference between sawing or not. 

You have the equipment to produce timbers right now.  You can produce cash flow with it.  To produce slabs with the current equipment, you'll be investing into unproven technology (reinventing the wheel) where cash flow is a long time away.  If you want to cut slabs, I'd go with a slabber build instead of trying to MacGiver the circle mill.  It would be safer and a whole lot easier. 

[Don_Papenburg]

Take some time too think this out you have a log on the mill doged with only three little pins and you will try to cut it in half .  as the log passes the 3/4 point in the cut  the loose (soon to be) half will want to start to pull away from the head blocks at  7/8 of the way through the cut it will be tipping the carriage off the track .
You need something to hold the off cut while it is still being cut and move at the speed of the carriage .  Aton or two of wet log sections will changing position on a moving carriage will bend a chainsaw bar so you will only get one cut and destroy your circle blade .   Listen to what these guys are telling you . learn from others wisdom .  There is a post on here about Hearn Hardwoods someplace Look at that before you start cutting big logs . They have pictures of a BIG bandsaw cutting big slabs vertical ,You will see the support needed.  There is also a post of a guy in NY if I remember that build a very big horizontal bandsaw that cuts slabs like you want. Do yourself a favor and check the sites out .  A heavy slab or log will knock the suffing out of you at the most inappropriate time.
Good luck with the adventure  Post pictures of whatever you come up with . 

[york]

Hi,
Yes i agree with Don and this is the thread he is talking about.....

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,76559.0.html

[backwoods sawyer]

if i can set it up with a 5 ft bar and slab up some 30" up to 4 ft or so i will be tickled to death.

The carrage was designed to handle what 36" logs? Like all mills you can fudge this a bit, but as Dan points out hanging half the log off the carrage would be an issue, counter weights would help with this if you are just slabbing not splitting in half.

A local mill has an industral sized log splitter it uses a craddle to hold the over sized logs that they split in half. It has a heavy 84" hydraulic decksaw (chainsaw) mounted vertical under the cradle and the saw travels along the bottom of the cradle thru the log. It does a great job of splitting logs but is not capable of slabing logs.   

[terrifictimbersllc]

No one has mentioned this yet, but I'm a little concerned about whether the bar and chain are going to cooperate on your slabber idea.   

I slab with a 60" capacity Peterson and find that sometimes things work very well (usually, see here https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,79052.0.html), but at other times not.  By not, I mean the cut either climbing or diving followed by a lot of resistance and slabs of uneven thickness.  What both have in common is that one is very carefully pushing a slabber bar through a log with the "pushing" guided by a distinct feel for how fast to push, cues from vibration, visual observation of the chain, and a feel for how effortlessly (or not), the slabber is rolling through the log.  By the last factor I mean backing up every foot or two, then going forward again, to discern whether there is any resistance or not , to the rolling of the mill which would indicate bar rising/diving in contrast to straight cutting.

Hard to put it all into words.  But not hard to say that I very much wonder whether any mechanism can be devised that works so well,  that a big log can just be pushed past a very long sawing bar.   I very much hope that it does work for you.  Then I would like to copy your bar, chain, chain speed, and whatever else I can from your setup, to make mine even more productive.

[Tree Dan]

Your getting alot of good advice on your build here.

Maybe you could build this mill to handle shorter logs, instead of 16' slabs you cut 8'
there's half your weight gone right there.

What material is used for the frame?  looks like channel?  3/16" ...you may also need more out riggers.

What I would try to do for the log supports is to have hyd clamps on both ends.
In other words...squeeze the log end to end...also with a hyd clamp to lightly clamp against the side of the log...this side clamp would need to be released of preasure at times to alow the CS bar to cut in that area.

On the end clamps you may need adjustable pins (Pointed 3/4" bolts) to get a custom grip on your log.

I would say this can be done, but I would like to hear what material size and some details on that log deck frame...Im sure it could be beefed up to handle a good load.
You need to beef things up anyway for the big log clamps

Where do you get a gear drive to conect the CS bare to a shaft?

Like you said you just through the big log size out there...you may just need to scale this down a tad...have fun and the main thing is be safe.
I see a whole lot of welding and good fitting here to make your build.