I have definitely decided to go with blade style winch for the JD 2032r. Size like a 350 or maybe 400/450 winch. Now the question is do I want a shorter blade that will flip up, Igland/Norse style or a blade that will allow me to get the wood what seems considerably higher on a Farmi/Wallenstein style?
I am planing to hang the logs by the chain from the notches for that purpose. I don't like the idea of hanging the logs by the cable/brake.
Potentially, the Norse style will go over stumps better. I'm not running a skidder though so I am not anticipating being in with the stumps...
Looking for thought from users, hopefully some have experience with both.
Thanks!
Karl
I would mention that horsepower rating is not everything when looking at a logging winch, looking at the specs of your tractor and comparing it to my tractor I would guess that even the 350 might be a bit too big for your tractor. I will mention that I rarely run the winch with the engine over 1300 rpm (considerably less than 35 hp), more power is not usually needed but tractor weight and lift capacity is.
The reason I say this is my tractor though only a few horse power more than yours (35 hp) weighs 1000 pound more and the drawbar lift is a 1000 pounds more than yours. I bought a second hand Norse 390 for my tractor (similar size and specs to a 350) and find it to be the upper limit for a winch size for my tractor, I think the 290 would be better suited for my tractor.
I think a 350 will be pushing the upper limits of you tractor and will limit your lifting capacity, hopefully you are able to look at the winches in person to compare and not just go by hp rating.
Better yet putting the winch on your tractor before you buy would be best.
Happy winch hunting!
I think that 350 is kind of big for your tractor. Well no kind of about it, it is. Or I think it is. I doubt it would even fit your tractor.
I know that 450 would not fit on your tractor. I run a 450 on my 40hp NH. My tractor is more than twice the size of yours. I don't think Norse makes a small one that you need. I have been to shows and have seen other brands that would fit on your tractor. I am pretty sure that 450 would not even fit on the wife's 30 hp NH. The back is too small for it. Don't be so concerned about the pulling power of a winch. Even if you could winch it to you, you could not move the log. Get one that will fit your tractor, on the low end. Watch them sales men too. I have a 6 foot bush hog on my 40hp tractor. We went looking for a small one for the 30hp tractor. Salemans tried to tell me that 30hp would run the 6 foot bush hog. ::) Yea,down hill I told him. I have one steep place by the house. That 5 foot will try to pull the tractor sideways. I about imagine what would happen with the 6 foot bush hog behind. :o That gets mowed going downhill only. Wife will not mow it.
Farmi makes a model 290 winch.My brother has owned his since the late '80's.He uses it on a Kubota L2250.It has served him well with no problems.
Wallenstein, Farmguard makes one too and there are others. Don't be concerned about needing parts. I worked mine hard since '93. Than a life of ease just doing my firewood since 2000. Looks like the sprocket is starting to wear on it.
Hilltop366 is right about rpm. Tell you the truth I really don't know what I ran mine at. I go into the woods at a certain rpm, never touch the throttle and use the winch. I use to winch in some big logs,3 feet across was normal and some bigger. Than I would bring the rpms up. But now with what I winch in, I rarely touch the throttle.
Like Sawdust mentioned I also have a Farmi JL290 on my 30 hp L3010. Weighs 5000 lbs with loader, bucket grapple, loaded tires, chains, and winch. Seems like a perfect match to me. With the small tractor I keep it on the tractor roads and I keep the roads clear of slash so a fold back blade is a non-issue for the way I use it. It's not a skidder. I have used it in the woods since 2002 and tractor and winch have served me well. Check my gallery - There are a ton of pics of what it can do.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21065/P1100492.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1427029522)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21065/CellarHoleCut_28329.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1450709289)
gg
G-man,
How often, if ever, do you wish the blade was hinged?
I don't think that I ever thought about it at all. I did weld a 2" receiver in the blade so I could pull my little trailer and I have a bolt on 1 1/4" receiver for the wood splitter.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21065/Fwdr4.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1535540543)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21065/Fwdr7.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1535540537)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21065/P1180068.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1531158768)
gg
hilltop and thecfarm,
I'd love to lay eyes on a Farmi. Any idea how to find a dealer locator? I have scoured the internet and found a few dealers, none near me. But I can't even find a US Farmi site or any kind of a dealer locator...
Northeast Implement in NY -north west I think. They have all things Farmi and stock winches and parts. Good people to deal with. Just call.
https://www.northeastimplement.com/farmi-winches (https://www.northeastimplement.com/farmi-winches)
Also most tractor dealers can get Farmi winches and will give you a quote. At least Champlain Farms in VT will. Even have some in stock.
gg
I found NE Implement. I couldn't figure out if they were dealer or distributor.
I'm in SE PA or Central NH. NEI is a little far for a recon mission.
If you ever come up 93 to waterford, VT (next to Littleton, NH) someday you can try mine. I have a JlL290 and a JP501
gg
Excellent! Thanks!
Happy New Year!
Quote from: FTD on January 02, 2020, 07:39:46 PM
hilltop and thecfarm,
I'd love to lay eyes on a Farmi. Any idea how to find a dealer locator? I have scoured the internet and found a few dealers, none near me. But I can't even find a US Farmi site or any kind of a dealer locator...
Best I can tell you is call around your area(s) tractor dealers and ask what kind of logging winch the sell.
i bought a used fransguard 4000, for my tc45 new hollands, works great
Them things are hard too find!! ??? Wallerstein did have a place that I could contact them.
FTD,
If you have a local buy/sell/swap guide you might place an ad seeking owners of 3 pt. hitch logging winches to look at.CL or an active chainsaw shop might be another source.Winter time AG shows are another possibility.Good advice given here.I wouldn't go bigger than a 290 on your present tractor and be careful,your tractor looks like it could be tippy.
Looking at the specs and photos on the Farmi site there is not a significant difference in size or weight and both are rated for cat 1 3PH. Lots of videos online showing a 351P on tractors similarly sized to mine. I know I haven't seen them in person, but 44lbs I'm not going to worry about considering capacity. The pics attached show them on the same tractor and the only real size difference is the "flaring" of the sides of the blade. The ability to add a lower pulley seems a big plus. Just cause the capacity is higher, doesn't mean I'm gonna try and use it! The faster cable speed could be a huge advantage if used properly.
Does anyone have any factual/anecdotal evidence to support the 351P being a problem?
Basically, I am looking at 6000-7000lb arch
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18022/0EF4A9AA-DB3A-4831-A35F-DDF25E3B4986.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1578054053)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18022/DECA131B-05A8-41CA-A699-050EB8F63B9B.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1578054053)
I finally had to repair my Tajfun 9k winch. The pull rope to engage the clutch wore out ;D. My winch is 15 yrs old an I haven't had a problem with mechanical parts, other than a spring that holds the control for free spooling the cable. In the end I think you'll use the cable to yard the hitch especially when you get to a spot where you have to release the hitch to get across an obstacle.
I have no first hand experience nor do I know your tractor, but I have read of two problems that people have had putting winches on small tractors. The connection point for the lift arms are higher on bigger winches that reduces the height you can lift it. I have heard people say they can't lift high enough to hardly get the logs off the ground. The second is the pto shaft angle. With a winch the shaft is very short. The bigger winches have a higher pto and makes a very steep angle. Even steeper with the winch is lifted. So check that stuff out before you buy.
You made a comment on winch cable speed. The faster winch is geared higher. That means your tractor has to produces more torque to winch in the same load on the faster winch. So the slow winch will actually pull more because your small tractor is the limiting element on max pull not the winch.
gg
G-man,
Thank you. I was aware of the top link issue, and the PTO angle. And the gear ratio and torque. I got the impression from a few posters that the winch was physically too large and wouldn't fit.
To lesson the physical strain on your tractor, maybe consider a hydraulic winch. Most of the 3 pt winch manufacturers offer a hydraulic option.
I'm not currently worried about the size of the tractor. It is a CUT that is built on a medium frame. It has 24hp at the PTO and handles a 5' bush hog just fine. So long as the angles are there for full functionality, I believe I am ok. Now, like I said, I haven't yet laid eyes on the winches I am interested in and my beliefs above may be misplaced (wrong).
My current question was more about the winches with the hinged blade vs fixed blade. The fixed blade have longer distance from the top of the blade to the ground. This will give me a higher starting point for lifting the logs. ASSUMING I am getting full lift from the two different styles, that will give me more log off the ground and more weight on the axle. Both of these are good within reason are they not?
If you, or anybody is near York, PA Jan 7,8,9 consider going to the Keystone Farm show, this is not the big farm show in Harrisburg which is mostly for livestock shows and spectators, the show in York is daytime only for 3 days and has lots of equipment/dealers and in the past I know I saw tractor winches. Wood Mizer will have a saw mill set up outside. Admission is free and it is considered the farm show for farmers, mostly equipment.
gspren,
Thanks for the heads up! That is an awesome idea.
I've had an Igland 4001 since about 2003, and it's still going strong. It's run on the Case 75C and the Case 1494. The 1494 only has 10 more HP, but with the weight of it, it feels like way more. That said, the Igland has performed over and over again.
I've repacked the clutch bearings once, and replaced one cable when I went with the compressed cable to get more length on the spool.
It's a simple unit but it works hard - pretty much like the owner
There should be a show in Keene N.H. this spring also. Just a note to all of you with winches on Put bolt thru the links were the lower 3pt hitch arms hook to the tractor frame the flip clips are easy to get flipped when you go thru high grass on in my case short growing brush on the trail. My arm came off yesterday while hauling 2 large logs. It's not easy to get the arm lined back up. I finally had to disassemble the whole thing then hook back to the winch. This has happened twice in my yrs of low impact logging. Now it has 3/8" bolts with lock nuts to keep from happening again.
Also the Vermont Farm Show in Essex Jct. January 29-31
Loggers Plus Expo in Bloomsburg, PA. April 3-4
Northeast Forest Products Equipment Exposition
Loggers Expo in Essex Jct. May 15-16
There is a like new Farmi jl290 for sale on FB market place in Dublin NH for $3,000
Bruno,I knew I saw that listed as well.I think that price might be more than new price.
Kinda curious. ;D
That's more than a brand new Fransgard V3507!
I don't know prices on these
But there are many listed for sale on FB market place.
Ed_K,never thought of that. On my norse there is just about enough room to put a clip on. And I mean just about. They have a piece of steel on each side of it. I almost get my finger pinched when I remove it. Which is not often. The bolts are a good idea.
Quote from: FTD on January 02, 2020, 09:18:02 AM
I have definitely decided to go with blade style winch for the JD 2032r. Size like a 350 or maybe 400/450 winch. Now the question is do I want a shorter blade that will flip up, Igland/Norse style or a blade that will allow me to get the wood what seems considerably higher on a Farmi/Wallenstein style?
I am planing to hang the logs by the chain from the notches for that purpose. I don't like the idea of hanging the logs by the cable/brake.
Potentially, the Norse style will go over stumps better. I'm not running a skidder though so I am not anticipating being in with the stumps...
Looking for thought from users, hopefully some have experience with both.
Thanks!
Karl
Howdy Karl, I have also been looking at Norse winches..more specifically the Norse 350. I am running a 52 hp tractor and the Norse 350 is just the right size. The Norse 450 is way to big and not worth the extra cost for only an extra 2000lbs of pull which will never be achieved or needed. From everything I have priced in my area the Norse 350 is the best price for the features that you get..at about $1k less than an equivalent Wallenstein and $2-500 less than Farmi. I think someone else mentioned this also but take a look at a Norse 290 it is rated for 25-40hp tractors which is really more in your range with a rated pulling capacity of 6400lbs. Anyhow good luck on your hunt. When I get my winch installed on my tractor I will try and post up a picture.
M
M,
I am almost settled on a Fransgard V3507. Pulling power is 7250lb. The horsepower rating is 25-45 so my machine is right in the middle. The PTO height is 19.3" and my tractor's is 20.5". The 290 is 13" so the PTO will be less of an angle vs 290 when working. The blade width is 50" vs 39" on the 290 and my tractor with the 2" spacers is 60". The wider blade will give more purchase on the ground to take the load off the 3PH. The pulley on V3507 is 51" vs 45" on the 290 so I get I higher pulling point to keep the load up. The V3507 also has a second lower pulley. It's only priced $500 more than the Norse 350. It weighs 408 lbs, which leaves me almost 1000lb lifting weight. The 290 is 320 lbs. I'd rather have that 80 pounds pushing down into the ground. I like the idea of a larger winch for two main reasons. First your never working it as hard. Second is the wider blade which will take the load off the 3PH esp. using the lower pulley.
I run a 5' bush hog with no problem operating it intelligently. If I do the same with the V3507, seems like a perfect match for my tractor!
I could be wrong though.
FWIW here's my .02 cents
i have a fransgard v2800. used it on a 47 hp landini for years and then on a kioti ck35. dont worry about engine speed when winching. Things move fast enough in the woods without rushing it, and i have never stalled tractor engine with winch.
higher pulling point may be nice but it is harder on 3PH components and if travelling with load hooked from cable, you may find the front end light. I do most of my dragging hooked on the lower bar.
Capacity wise, on my V2800 which is about 6200 pound pull, i have never been disadvantaged. if the log fetches up, usually the tractor moves toward the log. I have used a snatch block a couple times on some real big stuff but you need to anchor well (especially a small tractor) and another advantage to that is that it slows things down even more.
big winches are for big tractors
Quote from: FTD on January 06, 2020, 03:54:40 PM
M,
I am almost settled on a Fransgard V3507. Pulling power is 7250lb. The horsepower rating is 25-45 so my machine is right in the middle. The PTO height is 19.3" and my tractor's is 20.5". The 290 is 13" so the PTO will be less of an angle vs 290 when working. The blade width is 50" vs 39" on the 290 and my tractor with the 2" spacers is 60". The wider blade will give more purchase on the ground to take the load off the 3PH. The pulley on V3507 is 51" vs 45" on the 290 so I get I higher pulling point to keep the load up. The V3507 also has a second lower pulley. It's only priced $500 more than the Norse 350. It weighs 408 lbs, which leaves me almost 1000lb lifting weight. The 290 is 320 lbs. I'd rather have that 80 pounds pushing down into the ground. I like the idea of a larger winch for two main reasons. First your never working it as hard. Second is the wider blade which will take the load off the 3PH esp. using the lower pulley.
I run a 5' bush hog with no problem operating it intelligently. If I do the same with the V3507, seems like a perfect match for my tractor!
I could be wrong though.
Nice... seems like you have the specs worked out and your logic makes sense on all the features. Not too familiar with the Fransgard but going to check them out for info sake....
Post a pic of your set up when you get it :)
M,
Thanks for the positive feedback. It's always good to get reassurance that you are on the right track.
Like I said I might be wrong, I thought I was once before, but I was mistaken. :D
Just got the quote from my dealer and it's a very good price with no freight as they are putting in an order with the supplier this week.
Need to discuss with the "Boss" before pulling the trigger.
If it all pans out I'll be sure and post pictures.
FTD
Well Karl, I can speak from a lot of experience with a Norse 350. Great Value. One feature I like is that the blade can fold up and lift sufficiently high that I can hook my wagon to the tractor's draw bar. I have it on a Century 2535 ( Branson 3510) which is a heavier compact tractor. If you have the blade where it can get a good grip in the ground, you can can pull a lot of wood. The dual pulley feature is nice.
All the winches you have mentioned are good quality machines. Others will tell you to get one or two self releasing snatch blocks. They are invaluable when winching from congested areas. Good luck. W. Jones
Thank you to all for the feedback.
I called the dealer and we worked out a package deal to get my tires loaded with "Bio-Ballast", the V-3507 Fransgard with upper and lower pulley, and chokers. I was already planning to load the tires so it just sweetened the deal. The price is really good. Now I just need to decide if now is the time...
Go ahead and get it now! Then bring it to my place in south east York Co, PA and we can "test" it on various size logs, both dropping and dragging.
Quote from: gspren on January 07, 2020, 02:51:37 PM
Go ahead and get it now! Then bring it to my place in south east York Co, PA and we can "test" it on various size logs, both dropping and dragging.
:D
hey
you can also check the industrie renaud gravel winch its in qc they have god product and you save the exchange rate 28 percent
Have had pretty good luck putting a plastic zip ties on both styles of clip pins to keep them in place.
Quote from: Stephen Alford on January 10, 2020, 07:17:33 AM
Have had pretty good luck putting a plastic zip ties on both styles of clip pins to keep them in place.
Little tidbits like this and the bolt idea are what makes this such a great forum. We all know these pins pop out at the worst time not the best. "An ounce of prevention" from another is the best! Saves others from learning the hard way...
Quote from: FTD on January 07, 2020, 02:37:40 PM
Thank you to all for the feedback.
I called the dealer and we worked out a package deal to get my tires loaded with "Bio-Ballast", the V-3507 Fransgard with upper and lower pulley, and chokers. I was already planning to load the tires so it just sweetened the deal. The price is really good. Now I just need to decide if now is the time...
If it is not too late, consider getting a self releasing snatch block with the package. For my forest it is virtually mandatory. Very few of my pulls are in a direct straight line.
Doug in SW IA
We discussed that. Distributor said he would have to order and it's generic. I'm thinking about going with a Stewardship Suppliers one. Greg here on the FF makes them.
Quote from: FTD on January 14, 2020, 05:21:33 PM
We discussed that. Distributor said he would have to order and it's generic. I'm thinking about going with a Stewardship Suppliers one. Greg here on the FF makes them.
Is that Greg whose username is APM? He used to sell his self-releasing snatch blocks here on the Forestry Forum. I have one of them. It works well and is holding up well. It was also a hell of a bargain compared to the other self-releasing snatch blocks out there.
I did have my winch cable pull down between the pulley and the support, badly kinking the cable. (It doesn't look as though there is room for my 3/8" cable to pull in that small gap, but it happened.) Someone else on here had the same problem and posted a picture of their fix: a small chunk of rod welded to the frame just above the pulley - it blocks the spot where the cable pulled in. I'm not sure if Greg has tweaked the design since then or not.
Quote from: John Mc on January 17, 2020, 09:41:22 PM
Quote from: FTD on January 14, 2020, 05:21:33 PM
We discussed that. Distributor said he would have to order and it's generic. I'm thinking about going with a Stewardship Suppliers one. Greg here on the FF makes them.
Is that Greg whose username is APM? He used to sell his self-releasing snatch blocks here on the Forestry Forum. I have one of them. It works well and is holding up well. It was also a hell of a bargain compared to the other self-releasing snatch blocks out there.
I did have my winch cable pull down between the pulley and the support, badly kinking the cable. (It doesn't look as though there is room for my 3/8" cable to pull in that small gap, but it happened.) Someone else on here had the same problem and posted a picture of their fix: a small chunk of rod welded to the frame just above the pulley - it blocks the spot where the cable pulled in. I'm not sure if Greg has tweaked the design since then or not.
Not to cut in but I just ordered there snatch block two days ago from Stewardship suppliers. I believe they're still on sale.
Followed this up from an older thread.
To respond to the original question regarding a blade that flips up or is hinged:
I suppose you learn to work with whatever you have.
I own a Uniforest 35E winch. It's similar in size and specs to a Farmi 351. The blade is fixed. The winch fits my tractor well: I can lift the 3 Pt high enough that the bottom of the winch is probably higher than the ground clearance under my tractor. (I've never actually measured it, but looking down from the tractor seat, it sure looks lenty high off the ground.)
In all of my 12 or so years of logging with this winch, only once have I found myself in a position where having a hinged blade would have made any difference to me. In that case, I was straddling a stump. The belly pan on the tractor cleared easily, but before the blade on the winch cleared, the front wheels started up a rise, thus lowering the blade enough to catch the stump. Even that turned out to be a non-issue: I just backed up and went around the stump, rather than over it.
The hinged butt plates works so I can also use the hitch under the tractor too. Yes you have the clearance, but if the front goes up, over a rock or a small rise, the back goes down, as you found out. I can hear that butt plate come back down when I straddle a rock. This was not a selling point when we brought it, the height of the pulley was. We was hauling out pine 3 feet across and even had some pushing 4 feet. Some of the pulleys was only 3 feet off the ground.
Tin Horse,
You are correct about Stewardship Supplies. It is Greg who goes by APM. He doesn't sell direct anymore.
cfarm and John Mc,
I think you guys summed up the hinged butt plate discussion. Neither is better or worse. Both have advantages and disadvantages. It's about what best fits your needs. Sometime the deciding factor is another feature of the winch such as pulley height or need for a receiver. That's why they make chocolate and vanilla.
Choc IS better though... :)
@FTD (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=8022)
Did you end up getting your Fransgard winch yet?
Sort of. It arrived at the dealer a few weeks ago and was scratched up. The salesman thinking I would want a shiny unscratched one, he was correct, asked if they would knock anything off the price. They wouldn't so he let them haul it back to the warehouse. The new one is due in a week. I would t be surprised if it also arrived scratched! :D
My Stewardship Suppliers self releasing snatch block is due here today. $275 on sale! I got the red, Scott has orange now also.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18022/720ACCDC-CF76-469C-A073-822BBDBEA91B.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1581097490)
8)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/26307/snatchblock_2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1579555854)
Adapted so the tow strap can be separate from the snatch block.Easier to put the strap on the tree w/o the extra weight of the s/b.Original idea pirated from gman.Works great.
Neat!
I know I'm late to the game, but thought I'd add my 2¢. I recently bought a Wallenstein FX-110. Does not have a hinged blade. There have been times when that would be nice - have dragged on a stump or rock more than once. Also, I prefer to haul logs on the cable rather than hook them on the blade.
Regarding snatch-blocks. I have a self releasing one, identical to the ones pictured. In most cases I would just as soon have a non-releasing type. Generally I want to disconnect the block before the log reaches it, and on several occasions, the cable has come out while the cable is pulled taught. Self-releasing types are very expensive compared to a non-release type.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/58760/IMG_2623.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1581102737)
PoginyHill,
Have you tried tightening the castle nut on the retainer? Mine is spring loaded. Maybe a little more tension will keep it from releasing early?
Quote from: FTD on February 07, 2020, 12:46:50 PM
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18022/720ACCDC-CF76-469C-A073-822BBDBEA91B.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1581097490)
8)
You'll want to add the little bit of steel rod to prevent the cable from getting pulled down behind the pulley. (You can see it if you look closely at 47Sawdust's picture, right under the latch mechanism)
I have two self-releasing snatch blocks, one like yours (made by APM back when he was selling them directly to FF members), and another I purchased from Labonville years ago. It's rare that I would actually need two. I could not imagine using a logging winch in my woods without at least one. A fair percentage of the time I'm winching any distance, I've got a dogleg in the pull. It would be a pain to have to walk out and unhook it from the block each time.
I haven't even got my winch yet never mind used it, but here goes.
Have you guys tried setting up your snatch block so the small outer diam of the pulley is facing down? Not sure if it's even possible to get it to stay that way for a full pull.
I'm thinking if you did that it would release rather than jamming under the pulley. Still not ideal, but better.
This all sounds good on paper. In reality, I am talking out the wrong orifice, so take it for what it's worth.
Quote from: FTD on February 07, 2020, 08:39:13 AM
Sort of. It arrived at the dealer a few weeks ago and was scratched up. The salesman thinking I would want a shiny unscratched one, he was correct, asked if they would knock anything off the price. They wouldn't so he let them haul it back to the warehouse. The new one is due in a week. I would t be surprised if it also arrived scratched! :D
My Stewardship Suppliers self releasing snatch block is due here today. $275 on sale! I got the red, Scott has orange now also.
Yes sir..thats disappointing, odd they wouldn't give you a discount I guess they like paying freight :). I was pickin up some choker hooks the other day and they were unloading a brand new Norse winch looked sooo nice and shiny. I ended up picking up a used winch a couple weeks ago.
Those self releasing blocks are nice hope you get the use out of it .
Quote from: FTD on February 07, 2020, 02:22:43 PM
PoginyHill,
Have you tried tightening the castle nut on the retainer? Mine is spring loaded. Maybe a little more tension will keep it from releasing early?
FTD,
I have not, but will give it a try. Thanks.
Quote from: FTD on February 07, 2020, 02:44:11 PM
I haven't even got my winch yet never mind used it, but here goes.
Have you guys tried setting up your snatch block so the small outer diam of the pulley is facing down? Not sure if it's even possible to get it to stay that way for a full pull.
I'm thinking if you did that it would release rather than jamming under the pulley. Still not ideal, but better.
This all sounds good on paper. In reality, I am talking out the wrong orifice, so take it for what it's worth.
Yes, I normally arrange mine with clip and pulley facing downward. Less likely for cable to slip out before full tension is applied.
Quote from: FTD on February 07, 2020, 02:44:11 PM
I haven't even got my winch yet never mind used it, but here goes.
Have you guys tried setting up your snatch block so the small outer diam of the pulley is facing down? Not sure if it's even possible to get it to stay that way for a full pull.
I'm thinking if you did that it would release rather than jamming under the pulley. Still not ideal, but better.
This all sounds good on paper. In reality, I am talking out the wrong orifice, so take it for what it's worth.
Mine was facing down when the cable jammed. "Shtuff" happens sometimes. That little bit of rod is a worthwhile addition to that style of block. It acts as a deflector, keeping the cable out. I would not have thought it possible for the cable to get in there in the first place (3/8" cable jamming into a much smaller gap). It did, and I put a huge, nasty kink right in the middle of my 230' cable. Broken strands and the sharp kink made it unusable. Since it was right in the middle, just cutting off the bad end was not an option. (It's a swaged cable as well, so more expensive than an unswaged one. It cost more than my self-releasing snatch block.)
My other block has a different design on the trigger/release mechanism, which keeps the cable out of that area:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16836/Snatch_block_trigger.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1452362556)
Quote from: PoginyHill on February 07, 2020, 02:14:12 PM
I know I'm late to the game, but thought I'd add my 2¢. I recently bought a Wallenstein FX-110. Does not have a hinged blade. There have been times when that would be nice - have dragged on a stump or rock more than once. Also, I prefer to haul logs on the cable rather than hook them on the blade.
Regarding snatch-blocks. I have a self releasing one, identical to the ones pictured. In most cases I would just as soon have a non-releasing type. Generally I want to disconnect the block before the log reaches it, and on several occasions, the cable has come out while the cable is pulled taught. Self-releasing types are very expensive compared to a non-release type.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/58760/IMG_2623.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1581102737)
Nice hitch there PoginyHill and welcome to the Foram. I am trying to understand how your cable can jump out of the sheave when it is under tension. When under tension the groove in the sheave holds the cable in place not the trigger lever. The trigger lever is only helpful when the cable is slack. The only time mine has released early is when an empty slider slid down the cable into the snatch block and tripped it. But usually I put the first log in the top slider so that can't happen because all the free sliders are behind it. I do it that way so that I can stop the pull or drop the hitch and then pull out more cable and sliders to hook another log. Every additional log goes on the top most free slider. That way I can keep pulling cable and hooking logs until all the sliders are full. It also lets me lift the hitch up closer to the lower pulley when I set the brake for the skid out because there are no empty sliders on top.
I always use the self release block even if I don't self release it. It is easier and quicker to set up than a standard block especially if you put one of those Pinocchio noses on it that 47SawDust shows.
gg
Should have been more clear g_man. It will often trip as I'm pulling it taught. Not after all slack has been taken up. Particularly if the line is bouncing a bit.
Ahh OK that makes more sense. That sounds like the cable may be dragging across the release lever as it is tightened and that is enough to pull the release aside ??? So tightening the castle nut on the release as suggested may help as well as hanging it so it runs sheave down. That way the cable will be less apt to drag on the lever as you tension it. Sheave down is the proper way and you already do that I guess.
gg
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18022/CF9E1035-290D-42AD-939B-E13A3C3DDBCA.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1582383244)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18022/9ADB8558-895D-436F-8326-704709BA529A.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1582383348)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18022/1D816BEB-9F09-47DB-864F-3B6DED6D93E3.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1582383266)
Got it home today. Now I am searching for R1 or R4 takeoffs. Hopefully, R1.
Nice! Now the fun begins.
That looks nice!!! You will like it.
R1-R4 tires? I myself would run what you have until they break down or get a hole in one. Those tires might surprise you how long they will last. 8 plys will really last, that is what I run.
Quote from: FTD on February 22, 2020, 10:00:04 AM
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18022/CF9E1035-290D-42AD-939B-E13A3C3DDBCA.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1582383244)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18022/9ADB8558-895D-436F-8326-704709BA529A.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1582383348)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18022/1D816BEB-9F09-47DB-864F-3B6DED6D93E3.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1582383266)
Got it home today. Now I am searching for R1 or R4 takeoffs. Hopefully, R1.
Iv got the 4000 model, love it..
I cut the metal mesh guard off, It kept catching branches... seemed like more of a hazard to me...
cfarm- that is definitely the plan for now, "run what you brung". Looking for some take off wheels and tires to swap back and forth. I do over 90% of my work on grass, gravel, or pavement and these tires are great for that. Seen some deals, but nothing that will fit.
Bulldozerjoe- I'll run it and see what happens.
Thanks to all for the kind words about the new toy!
I would have the bucket on with a load of fire wood to put weight on the front it's amazing how fast one can flip a tractor over backwards don't ask how I know this
I have two of the snatch blocks from Labonville that are the same style pictured by JohnMc. I would not go in the woods without them. They are always hanging on my 450 Norse winch if needed and have always worked well. I watched the demonstration video on the winches use that Labonville has on their website. The video shows the snatch block used with the open pulley side facing up toward you when attaching the cable. That's the way I have always done it and have never had a problem with false releases. I figured that they built it and knew more about the way it should be used than I did. Here is a link to the video from Labonville's website.
Norse 450 3 Point Hitch - 40-90 HP (https://www.labonville.com/Norse-450-3-Point-Hitch--40-90-HP_p_82.html)
Quote from: FTD on February 22, 2020, 10:00:04 AM
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18022/CF9E1035-290D-42AD-939B-E13A3C3DDBCA.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1582383244)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18022/9ADB8558-895D-436F-8326-704709BA529A.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1582383348)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18022/1D816BEB-9F09-47DB-864F-3B6DED6D93E3.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1582383266)
Got it home today. Now I am searching for R1 or R4 takeoffs. Hopefully, R1.
Looks nice. I recently purchased a Wallenstein. Love it. But I had several instances of logs hitting the side of the winch, bending the hooks I keep the chains on. So I added two plates to protect the area and it has worked well so far.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/58760/New_winch.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1582651063)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/58760/Modified_winch.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1582650672)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/58760/Protected_area~0.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1582652179)
Boxes to keep the chains in too!! A good job. I see the stuff hanging too.
Hey all, who's better at dredging up old threads than I 🤔, so here goes; Looking at winch for the tractor I have, nothing more, nothing less. Tractor is 25 hp hydrostatic. Don't have manual here at home so not sure what hp is seen at pto.
I don't want to oversize this. Something that is properly matched to my modest machine. Any thoughts on models to look at? And on that, do you think it more important to try to find "the best" unit or does it matter more finding what your local guy can carry? Not in a hurry and could go used. Thnx
Farmi 290 or the current model #. Great trouble free winch, sized for your tractor.
Thanks 47. Would I be ill-advised to go up one size and get the lower pulley?
My brother used his Farmi 290 on a Kubota L2250 about the same hp as yours.He used it for 30 years w/o a problem.
I have a Krpan winch with upper and lower pulleys.I don't think I've used the lower more than 3 times.
Thanks bud. Trying to find dealers.
Quote from: wisconsitom on February 01, 2022, 04:37:08 PM
Thanks 47. Would I be ill-advised to go up one size and get the lower pulley?
Would need to know more about your tractor than just the HP to answer this properly. It's really more about the weight and frame size than it is about HP. (The winch manufacturers use HP as a convenient proxy for the size of the tractor).
What is the make and model?
Bobcat ct 2025 hst.
Bobcat says 22.2 pto horsepower and around 2600 pounds or 4000 pounds with loader.
Quote from: wisconsitom on February 01, 2022, 05:16:53 PM
Bobcat ct 2025 hst.
Quote from: Hilltop366 on February 01, 2022, 05:45:36 PM
Bobcat says 22.2 pto horsepower and around 2600 pounds or 4000 pounds with loader.
Unless TractorData.com is way off, the loader should weigh just over 900#, so 3500# total unless he also has filled tires or something.
Got the info from the bobcat website but looking again I see it is showing the loader lift capacity not weight, good catch.
Yup on fel, and beet juice in the rears.
I myself like a Norse, just because of the higher pulley, boxes for the chains and the pivot butt plate, that can be locked in place too.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10436/thecfarmtractor.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1198381152)
Try doing that with a butt plate with any other brand. ;)
But saying that, Norse may not make one smaller enough for your tractor. Like I say, If I am worried about dealer support, maybe I bought the wrong one.
I all ready posted about how long I had mine and have not needed any parts for it. And it got used hard for about 3 years.
But no matter what kind you buy, make up some short chains for it. I bought 8 foot chains and cut them in half. I use the short chains now more than the long ones. When I bought nine it came with 6 eight foot chains!! Won't be twitching out too many logs needing an 8 foot chain.
I run 6 slides on my winch, sometimes all 6 are used, sometimes, only one. They are there if needed, not in the way, if not used.
Also the spec was for a manual trans not HST.
Either way I figure the right size winch is going to be the smallest one offered by most brands if they offer one small enough.
A top pulley is a must for me, my winch (Norse 390) did not have one and I did not like it but was able to add one, makes for a lot less hangups on roots, rocks and stumps but you have to be mindful of the height you are pulling from and the extra leverage that is applied to the rear of the tractor.
Thanks gents. I like-for my application-keeping unit small, not only to not mismatch tractor, but also to not get too heavy, and as such, the smallest is probably right for me.
Maybe when I'm 90 and the thinning is hot and heavy, I'll have a bigger tractor and winch🤓. Working on finding something in area to look at. My Bobcat guy is going to look too, for what that's worth.
Uniforest 35M would fit your machine. I have the 45M and am well satisfied.
I have a Farmi JL290 on my 30 hp L3010. Set up with loader, loaded rear tires w/chains, and winch it weighs about 5000 lbs. It is plenty of winch. I would not put a bigger one on this tractor. There is nothing to gain by doing that. I've had it for 20 years. They keep their valve very well.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21065/P1100492.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1427029522)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21065/CellarHoleCut_28329.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1450709289)
Here is a short video of it working
RockyRdCut 2 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/UivrQ7PfEtw)
gg
Heh Stave, just got done looking at that one. Yes, def looks right.
Missed your post, g_man. You're moving a nice stick in that video!
I guess it's just down to what I can find. All these makes look like they'd work for me.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/58240/AF149C11-820C-4F58-8398-EC3DE52A2CA7.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1643762043)Farmi 501 behind a 90hp Case, but you get the idea. I watched a video we're a guy was going on about using the lower pulley every hitch as the only way to do it. I've run this since 2000 use the top pulley 95% of the time until I'm hooking up a tree just to the hook, then I draw it in with the lower pulley. Or if I have to give a tree a pull I go through the lower pulley and lock it.
Your setup looks plenty robust Wood farmer. Thanks.
Quote from: wisconsitom on February 01, 2022, 04:37:08 PM
Thanks 47. Would I be ill-advised to go up one size and get the lower pulley?
My tractor specs (NH TC33D) are similar to yours: I have a few more HP (33 engine, 27 PTO). I'm about 150# lighter for the bare tractor, but have filled rear tires, and the added weight of a 1/2" thick belly ban and FOPS with limb risers. I have similar lift capacity on 3 Pt hitch and FEL (I had a Woods 1012 loader, rather than the NH 730)
I have a Uniforest 35E, rated at 7700# pull. Overall, the specs are almost identical Farmi 351. Lack of HP has
never been a concern for winch operations for me. Going the next size bigger would be too much winch for my tractor, but this size is a good match. However, I would not have been as happy with smaller winch. The salesman at my tractor dealer also did a fair amount of logging with his 40 HP tractor (and had a son who was a professional logger and did lumberjack competitions). He suggested the Farmi 351 size for my tractor and steered me away from the Farmi 290 (they had both on their lot). I ended up going with another brand, but followed the size recommendation.
The Uniforest 35M is the successor to my 35E. The M had some design improvements which I think are worthwhile. It also gained about 110# in weight over the 35E - it's up to 540 lbs. I was going back and forth between the Uniforest 35 (less expensive, but distributor is a few hours drive from me) and the Farmi 351 (was available locally back when I was shopping, but that dealer has since dropped Farmi and switched to Fransgard).
I'm not pushing the Uniforest brand. Mine has worked out well for me. These things tend to be just about bomb-proof, but I would still consider going with what is supported by dealers in your area when shopping. I also don't want to push you to a larger size than you are comfortable with. Make the choice that you are comfortable with and that works for you.
John I am curious why you say you would not be happy with a JL290 and how do you know that ? What would I gain if I went bigger (351) on my L3010. The 290 is all I have ever used on that tractor so I'm looking for your insight. I have posted enough stuff using it so I assume you have a fair idea of how my set-up works.
gg
Quote from: g_man on February 01, 2022, 08:58:29 PM
John I am curious why you say you would not be happy with a JL290 and how do you know that ? What would I gain if I went bigger (351) on my L3010. The 290 is all I have ever used on that tractor so I'm looking for your insight. I have posted enough stuff using it so I assume you have a fair idea of how my set-up works.
gg
You are right, I don't know about the 290. I have never used one. I was basing it on the recommendation of the sales guy, based on his experience. I've also felt that the pulling power of the winch I do have (which matches the Farmi 351) is a good match for the size and weight of my tractor.
With the filled tires and various things I've added to my tractor, I'm at a bit over 4000# before I put the winch on the back. I've never dragged my tractor or broken anything on it while winching. I have managed to stall the winch on occasion. I don't think I've ever maxed out the available HP. (I have never understood why winch manufacturers rate their winches for a tractor HP, with no reference to tractor size/weight.)
On the other hand, I've seen what you do with your tractor - you've done a lot more with your rig than I have with mine, so it seems clear you are not limited by your set-up.
In retrospect, it would have been more accurate for me to say that I'm happy with the match between my winch and my tractor, and leave it at that.
For what it's worth, I have had an Igland since 2001 and it's been pretty much bulletproof. Some repairs, but mostly cause of my own dumb choices in the bush. Would absolutely recommend.
That said, I helped a buddy drop a few high risk stems the other day and he had a Wallenstein. Holy crap it was sweet. Nice rig indeed.
No matter what you go with, go with remotes. I wish I had. So many times I cursed the walk of shame back and forth, back and forth when it could have been the push of a button. Pay up front with some cash, or pay over and over again with lost productivity and grief.
Quote from: Woodfarmer on February 01, 2022, 07:37:38 PM
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/58240/AF149C11-820C-4F58-8398-EC3DE52A2CA7.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1643762043)Farmi 501 behind a 90hp Case, but you get the idea. I watched a video we're a guy was going on about using the lower pulley every hitch as the only way to do it. I've run this since 2000 use the top pulley 95% of the time until I'm hooking up a tree just to the hook, then I draw it in with the lower pulley. Or if I have to give a tree a pull I go through the lower pulley and lock it.
Woodfarmer, you running some good Case iron??? I have a 1494 with canopy for skidding, and a new 75C for the forwarder (with bluetooth hahahahhaha)
dustintheblood,
I have wireless remote and hydraulic outfeed pulley on my Krpan.
You have to upgrade in winch weight and $$$$$$ beyond what the OP has in mind.
I have never regretted the winch upgrade, the remote has saved a lot of trips back to the tractor.
Krpan winch part 1(1) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q587prlONI)
Quote from: dustintheblood on February 02, 2022, 01:33:30 AM
Quote from: Woodfarmer on February 01, 2022, 07:37:38 PM
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/58240/AF149C11-820C-4F58-8398-EC3DE52A2CA7.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1643762043)Farmi 501 behind a 90hp Case, but you get the idea. I watched a video we're a guy was going on about using the lower pulley every hitch as the only way to do it. I've run this since 2000 use the top pulley 95% of the time until I'm hooking up a tree just to the hook, then I draw it in with the lower pulley. Or if I have to give a tree a pull I go through the lower pulley and lock it.
Woodfarmer, you running some good Case iron??? I have a 1494 with canopy for skidding, and a new 75C for the forwarder (with bluetooth hahahahhaha)
Straight 6 Cummins in my tractor, there will never be a better motor.
That will pull some wood!!
If others are reading this and thinking about getting a winch, just do it.
Yes, they are on the pricey side now, but will last for years. As I said, I had mine since, 1993, used hard for 3-4 years, but gets used a lot now for firewood.
A guy and his son at work kept asking me about a winch. Finally they bought one. They both said, they love it. I use to tell the son, within hearing distance of his Father, make sure the winch is in the will for you. ;D
They were BIG snowmobile people. I would say, Forget the sleds, you want the winch. The winch will outlast the sled.
When looking for a winch one thing that is hard to grasp is how much it will pull. They rate the various size winches by pulling power. It naturally gives one the impression that if he puts a 10,000 lb winch on his 30 hp tractor he will pull 10,000 lbs if he can keep the tractor stationary some how. But that is not how it works. The pull you get on the line is determined by the amount of torque your pto can provide. It has nothing to do with the size of the winch. A 10,000 lb winch means that it is rugged enough to handle 10,000 lb pulls and the clutch will hold at that force - That is all it means. Think of it like a truck - the tractor is the motor and the winch is the clutch/transmission. The transmission part is a fixed chain driven gear set set that drives the drum full of cable. If the gearing and drum size on all winches were the same, then any tractor would produce the same cable pull no matter what winch it was hooked to. All based on the torque provided by the tractor. BUT the gearing is not all the same. The larger the winch the higher the gearing and everyone knows you get less torque to the wheels using a higher gear. So putting a larger winch on a given tractor will not give you more line pull it will likely give you less. For example - Think about just the drum size. The drum size gets bigger with a bigger winch. You need more torque on a big drum to produce a certain cable pull than on a smaller drum to produce the same pull.
Other things - How much you can pull is limited to how heavy your tractor is and how good you are able to set it so the blade will dig in. Big winches are heavier which lighten your front end more. You can't generally pick up big winches a high as smaller ones because the the lower link connection points are higher. This makes working with big logs tougher and reduces ground clearance.
End of sermon,
gg
Sermon appreciated. I've learned a lot in this thread, and first and foremost, that I'm going to try to get one of these things in the fairly near future. Obviously something that can help me manage my property.
In the meantime, there's life, with it's often surprising demands, which for me suddenly are, a mother that is going into hospice, and a wife in need of a decent car. I'll get back to this in good time. Thanks all.
Sorry to hear about those things tom.
In the meanwhile i bet youll find that for pennies on the dollar, you can weld up something light and simple have a cheap used electric winch on back to go have fun in the woods and destress.
I got another chinese 9k yesterday in a junk trade that i had around $200 cash into, abd it came with a free cherokee on 33" maxxis mud tires with nice rims.
Old stick welder cables, some lugs, an anderson connector, and $75 for a contactor and wireless remote. Go pull wood.
When times change and you save up enough for the real winch, guarantee the homemade electric attachment is worth $500.
I run a Norse 350 (30-60Hp) on my JD4720 (50Hp at PTO). I am very happy with what it does for me. I had considered the bigger 450 (40-90Hp) but am glad I did not. Couple minor tings have happen, I broke off the lever to engage/disengage the brake and had to weld it back on (actually there was not much weld on there to start but there is now), the pull rope to activate the winch occasionally comes off the spring loaded pully so I have to take off the cover plate and put it back on, I have bent some of the chain notches on the blade while skidding a big log and catching on a rock so have straightened them but now only use those notches for small firewood that will be well off the ground and all big stuff on the cable (which is nice because the high pulley helps get them way up off the ground). I do use a fixed snatch block pretty often with a nylon lift strap rather than chain to wrap around the anchor tree. Yep adds walking but better than getting hung up and having to bull the log out. Are others better? Maybe, but this is what I have so it is as good as it gets.
Help me understand the reason self-releasing snatch blocks are so often recommended. First, what are they? Do they release when the log gets to them, and how is this advantageous? Reason I ask is I see they're expensive whereas just regular snatch blocks are cheap. Keep in mind, this is all hobby logging. Thnx
Quote from: wisconsitom on February 16, 2022, 05:22:10 PM
Help me understand the reason self-releasing snatch blocks are so often recommended. First, what are they? Do they release when the log gets to them, and how is this advantageous? Reason I ask is I see they're expensive whereas just regular snatch blocks are cheap. Keep in mind, this is all hobby logging. Thnx
You got the right idea. Her is a short video of one working.
Automatic Brake Mod on Farmi JL501 Winch - YouTube (https://youtu.be/gVxhlT4DPKc)
They are a time saver and a step saver. They are also much quicker and easier to set up because of the open face. With a standard block you get the log(s) to the block then have to walk down, unhitch the block , walk back the tractor, then pull the log(s) the rest of the way.
They are pricey and everyone thinks different on that. Plus depending on your lot and how you work you may or may not use a block much. What I would suggest is to get a standard block. Go to work and develop your style or system and then decide if a self -release block is worth it to you.
I use mine a lot on my lot. But I used a standard block for a lot of years before I shelled out for a self-releaser.
gg
Great help as always sir and yes, sometimes I can miss the obvious! Reckon I'll take your advice and buy the inexpensive TS unit, then see how long before I get sick of all that walking.😓
Yeah, I sweat out in the woods in the winter...
Quote from: wisconsitom on February 16, 2022, 05:22:10 PM
Help me understand the reason self-releasing snatch blocks are so often recommended. First, what are they? Do they release when the log gets to them, and how is this advantageous? Reason I ask is I see they're expensive whereas just regular snatch blocks are cheap. Keep in mind, this is all hobby logging. Thnx
Gordon's video gives you a good idea. If you are pulling in straight lines in relatively open settings, you might get by without them. Since my woods are crowded, hilly, and nothing seems to be in a straight line, I use mine all the time to redirect logs when snaking them out of the forest or to prevent a log from rolling down a side hill.
In fact, I own two of them. I occasionally use both on longer pulls. Sometimes, I'll use the first one to put a dogleg in my pull to get the logs out of the forest, then use the second to re-align the logs parallel to and alongside the trail once they are out.
I don't use it every time I'm working with the winch, but owning one is kind of like owning a logging winch: if you have any use for it at all, once you actually use one, you won't be without it. As Gordon said, a non-releasing snatch block will give you a good idea of whether your situation calls for using a snatch block to redirect logs. If you do much of it, a self-releasing snatch block is a godsend.
I don't have one but even a regular one would be handy once in a while for me, if you are only using it to remove a tree here and there and not a bunch of pulls in the same place a regular block will be good. You will have to stop and go release the cable but even if you have a self release you will still have to go get it if only pulling once from that location.
On occasion I have used a slider to redirect a log that is caught on something but doing this is hard on the cable.
you still have to walk back to retrieve your block so the saved steps is actually just a case of less frusteration causing you to lose count how many trips to the block. with a double capture block you could make the same amount of steps by simply retrieving it when you walk over to unshackle it. there is really nothing saved if using only 1 block.
i tend to redirect around a stump. if there isnt a stump, there is always a little crap tree that should be removed so i will make a high stump for the cable, then just drape the cable around it and pull. but i also use a remote control DC winch and sometimes tongs, so i just walk with the log most of the time and dont have to pace back and forth as much. i have a good block and dont remember the last time i brought it out with me actually.
When I cut this patch I left the snatch block in the same place the hole time. Saved quite a few steps and a ton of time opening and closing blocks.
It's way steeper than it looks just below the tractor.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21065/ViewHitch1.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1454708301)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21065/ViewHitch2.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1454708301)
gg
multiple drags past the turn is undeniably the place for a self release. no argument there.
Alright all, thanks. I'll start simple and see where it goes.
This is all really next winter kind of thing. No winch yet, I like to plan ahead!
Seen where some guys cut the top and bottom off plastic barrels, then cut these in half the vertical way, and use on bumper trees they don't want to scuff.
That's a darn good idea. I just happen to have a few of those 55 gal plastic barrels and a couple tight turns on one of my main trails where that would work fine. Thanks for the tip.
I have a self-releasing snatch block. I probably allow it to self release about half the time. Much of the time I'll release the cable and retrieve it just before the logs hit it. I don't use mine as extensively as GG does. It does make for easy hook up compared to a fixed one. My woods roads are laid out such that I can get a straight pull to the tractor almost every time. I might use the block one out of 20 pulls.
I think I use it more often to offset a blowdown from the frozen up-right root ball so I don't need to move the tractor. I align the tractor for a straight pull parallel to the tree stem. Depends on what I'm able to hitch it to, I might allow it to self release and do an un-interrupted pull or I will release it once it has cleared the root ball.
Lots of time today with this warm rainy weather - thinking about snatch blocks. Like PoginyHill and J mac say, once you have one you will use it more and more to make things easier and a lot depends on your lot terrain. I have a lot of trails that are narrow shelves cut into side hills. Even turning sideways can be a problem. Here is a set-up with a standard block. The cable angle shows how steep it is. I pulled a half dozen trees up thru here.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21065/BigFirWinchTrail1.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1406855585)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21065/BigFirWinchTrail2.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1406855683)
You can see I used to use a large shackle. It's a small point but I used a big shackle to make it easier with winter gloves on and big things are easier to find when you drop them in the snow. If you are working in snow stay away from having to use small pins and the like to set up your block. And even better than a shackle, which I had to take apart in order to swing open the block, would have been some kind of hook - much easier. The best, by far, block set up I have used so far are like this.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21065/SnatchBlk3.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1579358491)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21065/SnatchBlk4.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1579358499)
You just put a strap on a tree and hang the block off of it. Nothing to take apart and drop in the snow trying to work with gloves on. I made this one but some blocks like Ingland come this way. I have a 4', 6', and 8" strap which I use alone or two together. Sometimes a suitable tree is not exactly near where you need the block to be.
gg
@g_man (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=11065) where can I get that doohickie you wrap the strap around that is pinned to your snatch block? I like that you can wrap the strap around the tree without having to man-handle the pulley around the tree and through the strap loop. Or is that what you made yourself?
nice block.
My snatchblock gets used a lot .
My property is full of obstacles so a change of direction is crucial.
Thanks to Gordon for the gizmo to hang it from,might be time to bring it into the shop for a tune up
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/26307/20220217_124242.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1645120083)
Quote from: PoginyHill on February 17, 2022, 12:08:42 PM
@g_man (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=11065) where can I get that doohickie you wrap the strap around that is pinned to your snatch block? I like that you can wrap the strap around the tree without having to man-handle the pulley around the tree and through the strap loop. Or is that what you made yourself?
You type faster than me 47
I went thru a couple iterations. Like yours probably, mine came with a long strap attached to the block with a 5/8" bolt thru a bushing. It was real cumbersome getting that 13 lb block around a big tree and thru the loop while keeping it at any height. So I got a 5/8" pin and found a shackle at a local actual hardware store, Dad's 4 By in St J, that I could drill out to 5/8". The shackle and pin was much better because I could put a strap, any strap, on a tree w/o all that weight, then pull the pin and attach the block to the strap with the shackle. Used it that way for a long time. Then one day I saw an Igland block and copied their method by welding that nose made from 1/2" rod onto the shackle. Life got even easier. Nothing to take apart and very strong.
gg
A loop sling works good. Just leave it on the block all the time. Wrap the sling around tree and drop the block through the loop. If you need shorter wrap it again around the tree.
I made an arborists style adjustable sling for my porta wrap back when i was climbing from 3/4 stable braid or something like that. One eyelet is finished. The other is adjustable with a lot of slack and a termination knot on the slack so it cant pull through. You adjust the length and then its like a chinese finger trap when load is applied. Pretty handy.
Quote from: g_man on February 17, 2022, 01:12:41 PM
Quote from: PoginyHill on February 17, 2022, 12:08:42 PM
@g_man (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=11065) where can I get that doohickie you wrap the strap around that is pinned to your snatch block? I like that you can wrap the strap around the tree without having to man-handle the pulley around the tree and through the strap loop. Or is that what you made yourself?
You type faster than me 47
I went thru a couple iterations. Like yours probably, mine came with a long strap attached to the block with a 5/8" bolt thru a bushing. It was real cumbersome getting that 13 lb block around a big tree and thru the loop while keeping it at any height. So I got a 5/8" pin and found a shackle at a local actual hardware store, Dad's 4 By in St J, that I could drill out to 5/8". The shackle and pin was much better because I could put a strap, any strap, on a tree w/o all that weight, then pull the pin and attach the block to the strap with the shackle. Used it that way for a long time. Then one day I saw an Igland block and copied their method by welding that nose made from 1/2" rod onto the shackle. Life got even easier. Nothing to take apart and very strong.
gg
Perfect! Thank you.
Since there are knowledgeable winch owners of many makes and models.Are there any winches that you can drop the logs from the cab ?
I have a medium size Wallenstien and there is no way with mine.
Not trying to derail this post.
I have put the ropes, the one to winch and the one to release the winch, towards the seat a few times. Seem like I was stuck or something different was going on. Only done it a few times, but could be done.
You would have to put the ropes into the cab each time. Kinda of a bother.
Hans2017,
Not trying to be a wise guy but with a radio remote I can drop and pull anywhere from stump to landing w/o leaving my seat.
It can also be done with the ropes and some clever re-routing of the pull angles, especially if you have no rear window.
I watched the video of the radio control and figured that would be great. With my skidder drop the logs and get up hills and winch back in all the time. I thought about the rope rigging and it would be tough with mine with the newer type cab.
Quote from: 47sawdust on February 17, 2022, 08:44:57 PM
Hans2017,
Not trying to be a wise guy but with a radio remote I can drop and pull anywhere from stump to landing w/o leaving my seat.
It can also be done with the ropes and some clever re-routing of the pull angles, especially if you have no rear window.
Good overview of your very nice winch 47. How can I see Part 2 ?
gg
Does the radio control allow you to "feather" the winch at all or is it full on/full off with no in between? Is the linkage the same as a rope control?
I have been thinking about using a linear actuator and electric winch remote to get my farmi cordless, looks like it would just need a mount and wiring
Quote from: mudfarmer on February 18, 2022, 07:52:18 AM
Does the radio control allow you to "feather" the winch at all or is it full on/full off with no in between? Is the linkage the same as a rope control?
I have been thinking about using a linear actuator and electric winch remote to get my farmi cordless, looks like it would just need a mount and wiring
I thought about doing that with an air cylinder. I think it would be easier to get the instant off to work. But I never got beyond the arm chair phase. Your electric actuator idea sounds good though - much simpler. Have you thought of how to turn it off quick or do you think slow on/off would be OK ?
gg
Quote from: g_man on February 18, 2022, 08:18:20 AM
Quote from: mudfarmer on February 18, 2022, 07:52:18 AM
Does the radio control allow you to "feather" the winch at all or is it full on/full off with no in between? Is the linkage the same as a rope control?
I have been thinking about using a linear actuator and electric winch remote to get my farmi cordless, looks like it would just need a mount and wiring
Quote from: g_man on February 18, 2022, 08:18:20 AMI thought about doing that with an air cylinder. I think it would be easier to get the instant off to work. But I never got beyond the arm chair phase. Your electric actuator idea sounds good though - much simpler. Have you thought of how to turn it off quick or do you think slow on/off would be OK ?
Every thing here coated with thick ice this morning.
gg
Quote from: g_man on February 18, 2022, 08:18:20 AM
Quote from: mudfarmer on February 18, 2022, 07:52:18 AM
Does the radio control allow you to "feather" the winch at all or is it full on/full off with no in between? Is the linkage the same as a rope control?
I have been thinking about using a linear actuator and electric winch remote to get my farmi cordless, looks like it would just need a mount and wiring
I thought about doing that with an air cylinder. I think it would be easier to get the instant off to work. But I never got beyond the arm chair phase. Your electric actuator idea sounds good though - much simpler. Have you thought of how to turn it off quick or do you think slow on/off would be OK ?
gg
Thought about the air cylinder as well, for near instant bleed off like you said. But seemed a little more $$ and complicated with solenoid and lack of compressor on tractor etc. Also yes, still in "sitting by wood stove drinking coffee thinking about it" phase!
I was wondering if I could find a little 12 VDC air pump to simplify it ??
gg
Sounds do-able.
Maybe we are over or under thinking it? Tractor has hydraulics already, what about a single acting ram with solenoid valve switched by remote? Could it dump the fluid fast enough, would a return spring help?
Great thread , lots of ideas. To minimize ...stuff... I use a grab. already have chockers of various lengths. For protection if need a piece of tire tube works for me. Put the chocker around the tree , place the grab then the snatch block.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12754/1521040567885.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1645194262)
The winch is hydralic over mechanical. spools in ,spools out and free spools. Just a stiff cable to inside the cab.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12754/IMG_20180327_165630.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1645193813)
The tractor allows the option of a grapple if need be for wood or brush.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12754/April_16_013~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1645193639)
Quote from: mudfarmer on February 18, 2022, 07:52:18 AMI have been thinking about using a linear actuator and electric winch remote to get my farmi cordless, looks like it would just need a mount and wiring
Quote from: g_man on February 18, 2022, 08:18:20 AMI thought about doing that with an air cylinder. I think it would be easier to get the instant off to work. But I never got beyond the arm chair phase. Your electric actuator idea sounds good though - much simpler. Have you thought of how to turn it off quick or do you think slow on/off would be OK ?
Somewhere I saw a logging winch advertised where the remote was an option. It looked as though they just added a hydraulic cylinder in place of the pull cord, but I was just looking at an advertisement, and couldn't see it well. Unfortunately, that was years ago, and I have no idea of the make of the equipment.
air would be easier. once you have an air tank on your tractor itll just be that much better of a tool. i have made air compressors from the gold standard york 210 and yes they work great, but are expensive now that everyone knows about it. i also made one from a jeep cherokee 4.0 AC compressor and that worked fine too, and can still be free. i ran mine for 30 minutes at a time running a diaphragm trash pump and had to spritz it with water from a hand sprayer to keep from boiling/seizing but thats after it has run 120+ psi for over 10 minutes. air winch control will hardly have to run at all unless you have leaks.
AC compressors can go up to more PSI than your air line or tank can hold. when i really, really cant bust a lug with my 1 inch impact, i hook up to the homemade high pressure portable york 210 compressor with a 30ish gallon tank and short, checkless 1/2" line and something is gonna get spun off without any questions. its the highest air supply i own, from trash. it does what my 10horse power 3 phase 100g compressor could not do. once you have that on your tractor you wont go back.
doing it with hydraulics would be a lot more expensive for no reason. it does not require the pressure of hydraulics, but does require the expensive valves, hose and filtration and return because your system has that much pressure that must be managed and the working fluid cant be dispelled. with air you are at low pressure, dont have to collect the waste, dont have to safety regulate the pressure, have wire hoses and fittings or daisy chains of cascading power beyond pressures in each valve. you can plumb 100 air devices in parallel and dump the exhaust to atmosphere. its a very elegant solution.
hydraulics also does not give you a new dimension of use to your tractor. it would just make the winch work remotely. put onboard air and a carryall with a toolchest and a retractable air reel and big tank, now you have an offroad service truck. add some long cables and its a jumper box tow truck. add another alternator and its a welder too. they cost enough, why not have them do the maximum for us in return?
john mc- see reply #104
gman-cue the video then click on my initial M, that will take you to part 2
mudfarmer- when unspooling the toggle can be released after about 10 seconds and cable will continue to free spool on its own.Turn the toggle off to stop the feed.
When winching the toggle must held to pull, releasing automatically stops the pull.
I love the remote for limbing as I can get to a safe spot and index the log forward to limb.
I have even ridden a large log back to the tractor when feeling young and snorty (once)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/0218220928-1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1645197963)
this is how to do a Cadillac system. i could probably go into my junkpile and build it for $200 or less, but i think all new with someone elses debit card i could be under $500. remember this isnt big money hydraulic hoses and valves. its plastic air line and 18awg speaker wire and cheap valves and remote.
i show the 12vdc solenoid valves as individual and that would work but i would buy a 3 gang valve block. theyre pretty available. 1/4" hose, pushlock fittings from SMC company on ebay used keyword "MRO" usually finds them cheap. bimba double acting air cylinders with spring returns and open mufflers. on the throttle control cylinder i drew an adjustable muffler. the little fart cloud fittings are air exhausting through a muffler, which is just a brass filter. the one adjustable muffler is so it doesnt back the throttle off so quickly the machine stalls. adjustable inlet and outlet is just how you control the speed of an air cylinder, and you can control both directions of the stroke. well, you can slow them both. not speed them up, that is relative to air supply. uncontrolled would be full speed stroke which is really fast. much faster than hydraulics. air is the opposite of hydraulic, its too fast so all you are ever doing is trying to slow it. thats what SMC controls do.
i drew the system staged for the throttle to come up before the winch starts engaging- also not to stall the machine. this could be any restrictor really. air pressure in the green circuit will drop when allowed to fill into the throttle up cylinder, so that moves first and then the other portions build up pressure and start to move.
the handheld remote is any amazon chinesium winch remote. its just a pair of remote control switches. you only need one wire to engage the winch and then springs kick it off so it is a fail safe control design. if it dont work the winch is mechanically kicked out of coupling and tractor returns to idle. it only revs up, pops the brake off and couples to the PTO if the system is working. the extra button and extra solenoid position i figured hey, stick an old truck air horn on there for letting people know youre gonna pull or that youre needing help. wear the fob around your neck and youll never lose it.
the green shows constant air. the orange shows 12vdc circuits. the blue shows actuated air from the manual switches in cab (clippard air toggle switches, excellent) and the highlighter yellow shows actuated air from the remote. the incab portion does not rev up, since you are there, and it gives you control of the brake and drum so that you can unlock the cable to drop a hitch and pull up then reel it in where terrain is too difficult or you need to make a turn, etc.
i did a simplified version of spring return symbols and plumbing. the springs and adjusting will be the hardest part to get dialed just right. if it were me i would design the spring return portions to have adjustable spring preload seats such as threaded rod with a valve spring retainer seat between two jam nuts on the threaded road that can be moved.. or for compression springs i would use threaded rods for eye mounts. this way you arent trying 30 springs and bending them and all that. get the spring close then dial in the seat. as it wears just make a little adjustment to stay working smooth.
All good stuff Mike. You think of every thing. Plenty of info there to think about and work with . Thank you !!
gg
thanks Gman. i used to design/fab simple air cylinder systems like this that had to run 3 shifts a day with operators standing right next to them. its a very cheap, simple, reliable medium.
Well $500 is laughable on my budget for a remote control winch and already have a pintle hitch off-road service trailer that can be pulled by tractor, utv or truck,don't want to turn the tractor into a service vehicle. Definitely don't need anything that runs 3 shifts a day, I just cut back to two shifts :D But I do have a few short stroke air cylinders and a 12 pack. Thanks for the pep talk
Tell me about it, ive got like 3 bucks. Good thing money is mommas job and all the others are mine.
Ive got a pile of electric winches here from trades now. Theyre better than no winch, and are all remote control.
Quote from: Stephen Alford on February 18, 2022, 09:34:42 AM
Great thread , lots of ideas. To minimize ...stuff... I use a grab. already have chockers of various lengths. For protection if need a piece of tire tube works for me. Put the chocker around the tree , place the grab then the snatch block.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12754/1521040567885.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1645194262)
The winch is hydralic over mechanical. spools in ,spools out and free spools. Just a stiff cable to inside the cab.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12754/IMG_20180327_165630.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1645193813)
The tractor allows the option of a grapple if need be for wood or brush.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12754/April_16_013~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1645193639)
Did you build that grapple Stephen ?? Looks like a very handy thing. I'm trying to figure out what that angled piece going across the hinge points does ??
gg
Good morning Mr Gman . the idea for the grapple came from Scandanavia back in the late eighties when wood was being trail cut in thinnings. It has become a tad obsolete with excavators with live thumbs. Good working implements do not seem to lose much value however. It was beneficial when the tractor was being paid by the hour.
The cross piece extends from one pivot point to the other for strength. If the wood cut was piled for extraction by the grapple it worked well. Especially in the winter when the pile was covered with snow. In recent times it has been used for handling slash and brush piles.
One addition made a couple years ago was drop chain. Holds the wood in place as the grapple closes.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12754/grabbit.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1481286396)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12754/grabbit_3.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1481398808)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12754/grabbit_2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1481398830)
Thanks for those close-ups, Stephen.
I'm not entirely clear what the drop chain accomplishes. What was happening before it was installed that is not happening now?
Quote from: g_man on February 19, 2022, 06:58:27 AM
Quote from: Stephen Alford on February 18, 2022, 09:34:42 AM
The tractor allows the option of a grapple if need be for wood or brush.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12754/April_16_013~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1645193639)
Did you build that grapple Stephen ?? Looks like a very handy thing. I'm trying to figure out what that angled piece going across the hinge points does ??
gg
Looks to me like that angled piece would keep both grapple arms at the same opening or closing gap. Otherwise, without then one arm might move less or more than the opposing one.
Quote from: beenthere on February 19, 2022, 10:38:52 AM
Quote from: g_man on February 19, 2022, 06:58:27 AM
Did you build that grapple Stephen ?? Looks like a very handy thing. I'm trying to figure out what that angled piece going across the hinge points does ??
gg
Looks to me like that angled piece would keep both grapple arms at the same opening or closing gap. Otherwise, without then one arm might move less or more than the opposing one.
ahh yes - that would be it. Thanks !!
gg
The adjustable loop sling i described.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/0219220954.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1645323206)
Hey Mr John Mc , when trail cutting everything goes down to 3", mostly firewood pulp and some stud. Some of the piles are small diameter wood and no two piles are ever the same size. As the open clam drops over the pile the chain conforms to the shape of the pile and and adds enough weight to get the individual pieces in place. As the clam closes the chain helps to keep the wood in place. This also occurs when the clam is opened. When you are dropping the loaded clam on a second pile for pick up or placing the wood on a pile the wood does not spread out as much. The grapple will pile the wood about 4 ft high.
The hydraulic winch is used about 85% of the time for wood extraction. Sometimes i trail cut if there is a risk of the wood being stolen at the landing. Also if the site conditions do not permit the use of the tractor for a few days I can trail cut then yard when ready.
Got to say yarding wood with the grapple in fresh snow at night is very peacefull and quite enjoyable with the heater on and listening to a few tunes.
Thanks for being enablers . I finally got off the fence and bought a Wallenstein FX85 yesterday. i Should have done it years ago as it will be safer and save me time cleaning up my property .
The older i get , the less willing i am to take chances , have been lucky a couple of times working in my woods . no more cutting chunks off hung up trees to get them down . It should be a nice addition to my equipment for tree harvesting /clean up .
You will like it!!!
Put a rolling hook onto whatever you are trying to winch in. Meaning put the hook down low so the log/tree will roll over. helps out when limbing, that way what was on bottom will be on top now. You can see what you missed. A 6 inch stub can dirt up a trail and make it harder to pull.
I ran six slides on my winch. Sometimes all 6 are used sometimes only one. Those 6 sure do come in handy cutting small wood. I have four 8 foot chains and six 4 foot chains. Guess which gets used the most?
Don't pull at an angle, move the tractor!!! Or use a snatch block.
Don't know how other winches are, but I have an old one. When I pull down a hung tree I get some slack on the drum. If I don't pull that slack out, it can cause a mess in there.
Ray, in everyday operation does the cable wind up evenly on the capstan?
Back when I was working, had a crew that ran a water truck with a hose reel. Must've been 350 feet of hose on that reel. Every now and then, run it all out and wind up nice. These rigs like that?
Thanks for the tips .
I'm sure there will be a learning curve . The good thing is i've been using one of those 2 HP Portable Winches that uses rope for 10 years now . I have learned a lot using that winch and still have it. I think the skidding cone i got with it will come in handy. I have several snatch blocks also.
As long as the cable is being pulled in tight, things work good. It's just when I get some slack things can go bad.
On mine I can see the drum, but I have to look at it to see if the cable is tight against the drum. Seems like if I get some slack and don't check the drum is when things go bad.
I think I had to take the mast off 3-4 times because it wrapped wrong/bad on the drum.
I run mine out whenever it starts to bother. Does not happen too much. Sometimes I use most of the cable anyways. I am cutting a meadow off now, next to the road. I am pulling out all the cable every time. No way I would dare to put the tractor on there. I might get away with it once but go in the same spot twice and I might sink.
Any cable would appreciate a full respooling now and then. Once i get two full wraps on i oil my cables. In my opinion it helps relax kinks, prevent rust and helps keep every single wire equally tensioned which is where the strength comes from, every strand carrying the load.
If your winch comes with a solid hook on the end, my advice is don't use that hook to pull logs. Use the sliders and add more if you need to. If you use the hook and the cable gets twisted or caught on something the hook can put enough force on the cable to break it where a slider would allow the cable to move and probably not break the cable. Ask me how I know.
I know I have posted some of these pics before but the hope is they will be help full to anyone using a tractor and winch for wood extraction. The best modification to the winch was the addition of an hourglass fairlead. A little chain oil on the roller lubes the cable and the high sides trough made a huge difference in maintaining the cable.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12754/21cid_568.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1491147854)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12754/21cid_976.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1491148025)
The reversable digger teeth for breaking the tractor and log pushing. The receiver hitch is very usefull.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12754/IMG_20180608_155121.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1528636636)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12754/21cid_181.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1508032718)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12754/21cid_510.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1495837238)
Thanks Stephen, very instructive. I think you're saying that type of fairlead helps the cable wind up evenly.
keeps the cable from jumping off the side of the roller and getting jammed between the roller and frame. stephen whered you find the big flange roller?
dozer bottom rolls and chainlink fence gate rollers can work. the bottom roll doesnt have as deep a flange but its steel and super beef.
I was able to find an aluminum hourglass roll on eBay that was used as a pulley to hang high voltage wire. It is definitely a wear item and won't last forever. I've since sold this arch, but it worked for me for 3-4 years or so.
<br
>(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/58760/IMG_2605.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1583848027)
Hey mike, he made the roller
reply #133 (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=81025.msg1435549#msg1435549)
Quote from: thecfarm on February 21, 2022, 02:33:45 PM
Hey mike, he made the roller
reply #133 (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=81025.msg1435549#msg1435549)
Yes he did. I remember when he posted some pictures of the process. Stephen is quite a craftsman.
The top pulley on a Farmi type winch performs the same purpose as a fairlead. The longer the free line between the top pulley and the drum the better the cable wrapping characteristics. One of the reasons winches are so tall.
gg
wow not only did he make the roller from sheet, but it appears he made the winch too. what a humble fellow that stephen alford.
He does it all!!!!! ;D
Mighty good steward of the land too. ;)
His tractor is made for small scale logging.
NE Woodburner the Wallenstein winch line comes with a crimped on bell and slider liker on a skidder winch line and 2 sliders for choker chains
Quote from: WV_hillbilly on February 21, 2022, 10:20:59 PMthe Wallenstein winch line comes with a crimped on bell and slider liker on a skidder winch line and 2 sliders for choker chains
The crimped bell is not for straight pulling. Meaning a log should be wrapped on the main cable before using the slider. The crimped bell relies on the friction of the log. If sliders are used and pull directly on the bell, it will probably come off the cable.
Quote from: PoginyHill on February 22, 2022, 07:04:16 AM
Quote from: WV_hillbilly on February 21, 2022, 10:20:59 PMthe Wallenstein winch line comes with a crimped on bell and slider liker on a skidder winch line and 2 sliders for choker chains
The crimped bell is not for straight pulling. Meaning a log should be wrapped on the main cable before using the slider. The crimped bell relies on the friction of the log. If sliders are used and pull directly on the bell, it will probably come off the cable.
Are you sure ? I don't know Wallenstein's but consider them quality equipment so I am surprised by your statement about the bell not being able to be used as the cable end by itself, like you would on most cables. Just wondering, as that would be a big limitation for the way I work. When I build a hitch I always put the first log on the top slider (closest to winch) and fill them down towards the end. That way I can always drop the hitch and pull out cable to hook and winch in another log w/o taking the everything apart to get the cable end free. I run a reusable ferral on the end of my cable.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21065/FerruleEnd4.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1590921708)
gg
Reckon I'm confused as well. I've got two "cat chokers" hanging on the rear end of my tractor with the bell ending and sliders, with which I've twitched many a load of ten to twenty small logs at a time. No breakage.
Back to winch choices, I can't do anything yet but am now thinking towards the Farmi 290 to best fit my tractor. Had been keen on the smallest Krpan unit but have come to believe the smaller 290 will actually suit me better. Can be had on other side of this state.
The thing I'm leery of is the scenario where you've spent all this money on a winch, then end up not being able to pick the unit up high enough to clear bumps in the road. My trails are pretty good in the plantation, and pretty bad in the woods and swamp, but by far most of my work will be in the rows.
I've now read a few accounts of guys with 3-point winches where this clearance limits what they can do. Sure wouldn't want that after all the $$$.
That's what their manual says. I've not tested it to see if it's true. Never had the need to use the sliders without a log choked at the end either.
Good to know. Thanks for the info.
gg
I can't easily enlarge the pic, but you can see the button at the very end and cable slider (yellow), then the chain sliders. I don't use the chain sliders unless the cable slider is around a log.
If it were a ferrule instead of a "button", it would probably be fine.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/58760/Modified_winch.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1582650672)
Pog, my chokers have ends like that I believe, if I'm seeing things right. Came from Westech Rigging Supply out west.
I'm hoping once I get a winch, I can put these cables to further use. One's a shorty probably can serve as aux log holder, the other's thirty feet or something, maybe just put on main line to get another log laying off somewhere, I don't know. Very nice chokers from those guys.
Cant remember if I posted here before or not
1994 Farmi on my 8540m Kubota.
On the second cable, no other issues.
limit myself to 4 chokers and use the snatch block a lot.
Havent skidded alone for at least 10 years maybe more.
Mine is an Igland 450. The grab hook on the end does not swivel (no slider) The cable goes through the eye of the grab hook and loops back to itself where it is swedged together. I didn't know better when I first got it and had a few logs in my hitch, the last one tied to the end grab hook. Pulling the hitch uphill and looking from the winch at the back of the tractor I did not notice things getting twisted up and the hitch caught on a rock. Before I knew it the cable went slack and I walked out to find that I had broken the winch cable about a foot above the swedge. I was surprised the cable broke but I think the hitch rolled over a time or two coming up the slope and the cable got twisted into a kink. Not being able to rotate, all of the force went into twisting the cable at the kink.
Hopefully this explains my point a little better. If I'm pulling just one stem, only use the cable. Additional stems would be put on a chain choker and slider.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/58760/IMG_53715B15D.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1645569755)
Thanks fellows-I learn, albeit slowly. Now, since I'm likely months off from even being able to back my tractor up to a winch and hooking it up, anyone have any close up pics or video of how the sliders are used?
I always use the last slide, so if I have to winch in another one I can without having to pull out twice the cable.
PoginyHill is using the first one.
@wisconsitom (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=43745), I have a post in the below thread that should help out on using the winch. Reply #14
this should help (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=109423.0)
I think if the winch was matched up to the tractor correctly, then the ground clearance would not be an issue. The Norse that I have will clear anything my tractor will go over and then some, never measured it. I have 18 inch clearance for the tractor.
I know I keep talking about the pivot but plate on a Norse/Igland, but another selling point.
I do know when the front tires go up a knoll the rear end is getting closer to the ground, meaning the butt plate. I can hear my butt plate swing when I come out of the woods, kinda like a tail gate on a dump truck.
say you have 4 stems within reach of the cable, you are snaking the cable out zig zagging to each one, choking it, hooking each but to its own slide with a short stub of chain or wire, until you get to the farthest log with the mainline and lash that last with the terminal end of the mainline.
when you winch in, they start pulling forward from the terminal end and hit each next one, stacking and bunching together into a single clump all connected to the mainline by the time they come to the machine. off you go. in real life there is often a touch more grief but thats how we envision it.
imagine laundry spread out on one clothesline. then the wind whips it all to the far end stacked up in a jumble but still clipped to the wire. thats about how it goes except you are pulling the wire instead of pushing the wood.
not great pics but only ones i have as an example. 1 blowdown for firewood across a trail. it was laying east to west across the screen here. too long to get out whole as it would get caught in all the brush. so i cut it in three pieces, put 2 choker chains on one slide hook and sent the main hook to get the top log, they all pull together from several directions as each one kinda spins around and comes to the tractor.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/1222211341.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1645576843)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/1222211345-1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1640223140)
then as you get going they self align into a hitch.
Quote from: PoginyHill on February 22, 2022, 12:15:21 PM
I can't easily enlarge the pic, but you can see the button at the very end and cable slider (yellow), then the chain sliders. I don't use the chain sliders unless the cable slider is around a log.
If it were a ferrule instead of a "button", it would probably be fine.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/58760/Modified_winch.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1582650672)
I have the same winch. I guess I didn't read the manual well enough. I always just use the chain chokers and have had no issues with the end terminal. I've run the winch as hard as it will pull.
On that note, the reason I don't use the cable slider and 'button' is that I don't want the last few feet of cable to get all twisted like a corkscrew like cable chokers do over time. Do you have that issue?
Thanks all. I got two loops, short and longer, just hanging off the top link area of 3-point, lashed when not in use. Haven't tangled yet- I do the turn and loop as wind it up so it's stayed pretty good. But obvious limitation-only straight pulls with tractor, no winching capability.
Back to those sliders, they're designed to receive both ends of the individual chain chokers, correct....or does one end have a hook on it? That's the bit I isn't familiar with. I get-and very much like-the basic way these things work ..just never actually used any chain chokers or sliders.
Here is a video I made a couple months ago - not professional, just put the camera on the ROPS and went to work. It was a dark day too. The tractor is parked facing down hill. It shows how I make a hitch using the sliders. Top slider first. It also shows how slow I work and some trouble when a little tree got tangled in the cable and tore the chokers off when the cable was slack. Got it fixed though. I kept the logs short, 26' max, because of 3 sharp turns in my trail. I cut them to 12'ers at the landing.
Tractor Logging with a Winch - YouTube (https://youtu.be/SREaDzXR4JQ)
gg
A real life video.
I remember that one.
Maybe slow, but it gets the job done.
I do a lot of slow logging here too. I take my time and leave it looking nice.
With a tractor it's not a good idea to leave a bunch of brush and other wood laying around.
I have an OWB and I can burn a lot of wood that I use to leave in the woods.
Quote from: mjeselskis on February 22, 2022, 07:49:58 PMOn that note, the reason I don't use the cable slider and 'button' is that I don't want the last few feet of cable to get all twisted like a corkscrew like cable chokers do over time. Do you have that issue?
@mjeselskis (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=14804) Yes, the end of my cable is a little twisted, but not that bad. With my old logging arch I used chain chokers/sliders exclusively. I've grown to really like the cable. When pulling a single stem, I think it is much quicker (even dealing with a less than straight cable) than using a separate chain choker. And nothing to hang up or remove when I'm done pulling. Just retract the main cable.
Quote from: wisconsitom on February 23, 2022, 12:29:29 AMBack to those sliders, they're designed to receive both ends of the individual chain chokers, correct....or does one end have a hook on it? That's the bit I isn't familiar with. I get-and very much like-the basic way these things work ..just never actually used any chain chokers or sliders.
@wisconsitom (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=43745) Chain chokers have an open end (or often a rod welded to the last link to help thread under a log) and a slip hook (as opposed to a grab hook) on the other end. A regular slip hook from a hardware store will work, but a "forestry" slip hook has a smaller opening so the chain is less likely to come out of the hook. Only the open end of the chain is attached to the slider. The other end is choked around the log you are pulling.
The bottom picture on reply #77 of this thread shows the forestry hook. I'm not sure that's the right term, but basically a modified slip hook.
You guys are going to get me trained yet! I appreciate all your patience.
So let's say you're walking your main line out to where some logs lay and you are using chain chokers to secure these. Are you carrying the chokers out with you? Then, there's the rod end being snaked around the log, what happens with the hook? When a single pull on the winch brings in more than one log, is it only the farthest one out that pushes the earlier ones along the cable towards tractor? Or is each secured along that mainline somehow?
No worries fellows-nothing riding on these questions just yet.
Bring out one choker for each log. Wrap one choker around each log and pull it tight thru the hook (choke it). Take the free end of the choker chain with the rod on it and stick it thru a slider key hole. Using the keyhole adjust the length of chain you want from the log to the main line slider. Do this for each log on a separate slider.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21065/2019_12-6.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1576421589)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21065/P1000188.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1578607439)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21065/ViewHitch2.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1454708301)
gg
g-man: great video, pics & explanations.... Are you stacking logs on the landing with your grapple? All the best, Rob.
Thanks again gg. I'm getting it.
Quote from: 78NHTFY on February 23, 2022, 09:21:11 AM
g-man: great video, pics & explanations.... Are you stacking logs on the landing with your grapple? All the best, Rob.
Thanks Rob - yes, I stack them with the grapple. Extra work but it is much easier when I load my truck to have them all stacked pretty straight and level so I can pinch them on the very end of the grapple. To do that I need the logs level with the two lower tines of the grapple. Having the logs on the end of the grapple allows me to set them in the truck gently. Plus I have to turn some of them because I stack them so all the butts will end up against the cab of the truck. Easy to turn using the grapple before they are stacked.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21065/22_2_15-1.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1644964347)
gg
Choker setting (http://www.vannattabros.com/iron39.html)
stahlssupplies.com and northamericansupply.com carry a lot of tackle to peruse and think about the different arrangements. im not sure if they are sponsors.
about the cheapest "bolt" hook you can find other than maybe ebay is from mytee products which is a good company for flatbed securement gear, ive ordered from them few times. theyre for 5/16 chain and id just cut down some trucker chains to make them.
Logging Chain Choker Hook - 5/16" 2 Tons 4500 Lbs WLL (https://www.myteeproducts.com/logging-chain-choker-hook-5-16-2-tons-4500-lbs-wll.html?fee=42&fep=6416&gclid=Cj0KCQiA09eQBhCxARIsAAYRiynUL0HTz_IOdBT2SGq34DlgHi88dfMLslp45Yeg-VAbIxsbQGGKvqQaAlMMEALw_wcB)
a pto winch cant bring the cable in past the fairlead like a skidder so chains are more commonly used in order to snug up a few more links to get the log lifted. with cable chokers your lengthis fixed. long chokers on small trees would leave so much slack the log would stay flat on the ground. which sucks. you really want the butts pulled up out of the dirt. its easier to drag, easier on the trail and the log isnt covered in mud and stone to dull your chain when bucking.
For chain chokers I prefer the kind made with high tensile (I think 90 to 100k) with the almost square link they are much better than the ones made with transport chain. They are smaller chain which makes them quite a bit lighter (especially when you are dragging out a bunch of them) and they go through the slider key hole a lot nicer.
Looking at Farmi web pages, seems the 290 is no more, but that something called W30R may be occupying that size point. Anyone know what's going on with that? Looks about the same.
Not finding used so far.
Heh, my neighbor's got his dad's old Gafner iron mule parked next door these days. Maybe it'll come in handy if still around in a few years. Picking up piles.
Hilltop mentioned square link choker chain.I understand the advantage for weight and gripping power but can't seem to find it for less than $4.00 a lf., and that is out of stock. Then their is Pewag at $14 a lf.
I never said it was cheap. :D
Quote from: wisconsitom on February 23, 2022, 03:15:34 PMNot finding used so far.
Tough to find good used 3pt winches. I looked for years and never saw anything decent that wasn't close to the price of new.
I sold a 30 year old Farmi 290 last year for $1950, sold within an hour of listing.It was gently used and shed kept.
thats why ive taken to electric winches. Pto units require a fair bit of machining or money to fab and a lot of money to buy. Electric winch can be had for the cost of chokers and battery cable. Not as good but it can get a poor man started without debt.
Point taken Mike.
Heh, plot thickens; Three Rivers Forestry is out of business. Widow of deceased owner forwarded me number of what I'm sure is Northeastern Forestry or whatever it's called in NY state....where they had gotten winches from anyway. How's that circus tune go...dee dee diddle diddle dee dee dee dee.
Good thing I'm just a retired guy planning and plotting how I'm going to fill my time for the next few years! :D
I suppose it's been said here. I think most tractor dealers can get a winch. I see them around here.
They all do the same thing. Get one and you will enjoy it and wonder why you did not get it sooner. ;)
They sure hold their value! My super old normet Farmi was $1200, no dickering, I was there 2hrs after ad posted and he was on the phone half the time telling people it was already sold. If you are in the market for a used one keep a wad of cash on hand and be willing to hit the road asap
I'm sure that's good advice, mud.
@thecfarm (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=436), I'm right there with ya! I'm going to have my CFO-her name is Cheri-get in touch with you in a little bit😁
I will tell her it will keep you out of her hair outside more.
As I tell the wife sometimes, Time for me to go outside. ;)
Tell her it will last for years.
It's the only thing that I have had, that I did not have to spend repair money on or weld a lot on it. I had it since 1993.
Quote from: 47sawdust on February 24, 2022, 08:15:46 AM
I sold a 30 year old Farmi 290 last year for $1950, sold within an hour of listing.It was gently used and shed kept.
That is more than I paid for mine 20 years ago ($1700) and is typical. You generally will not loose money buying a good winch. The initial outlay may be hard but you can get your money back .
gg
Half of this guys is I am going to really enjoy having one of these things, and have some good use for it. The other half is I'm dying to plug something into that rotating shaft on the back of my tractor😏.. ain't used it yet.
Along the same vein, I salivate over those Austrian 3-pt. Pto-driven post peeler/pointer machines, equally spendiferous.
Amidst all my meanders here, end goal is to maximize utility of tractor I have, in all aspects of managing my postage stamp. Wife and I were frugal all our lives and while nowhere near well off, the gradual acquisition of key bits of equip. is definitely on my agenda. Have thought many times my tractor is ideal scale for what I've got. Want to keep that same scale with attachments, etc. Maybe I'm back to looking at that smallest Krpan. Seeming to be best price of all comparable units.
Anyone with a Uniforest winch maybe interested in this video that I happened across. Made by Hudson - the guy said he's got so many questions on the manual because it is written in broken English, quote, he decided to do a manual video and more. It is very complete. Includes everything like how to measure and cut the the pto shaft, set-up, use, and maintenance. A lot of it pertains to any winch.
Uniforest Winch Set Up and mounting to a PTO on a Tractor - Hud-son - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiXefyf3BJo)
gg
Cool gg, I'm going to look at that vid later. Quick question though, regarding pto shaft length, when you say "cut", is this something purchaser has to do? Or is this reference to measuring pre-order?
You'll probably need to cut your PTO shaft. Every tractor set-up is different: (distance from shaft to 3point hitch mounts is what will determine shaft length). You could probably have the dealer cut it for you if you buy from a place that has maintenance folks. But you'd either have to bring the tractor to them, or mount the winch and measure the required shaft length and bring it to them.
No big deal. You are just pulling the telescoping shaft apart, trimming the male and sticking it back together. No welding or straightening etc. The protective sleeve prob gets the same haircut.
Get you something while theres something left to get. As the money supply outstrips the equipment supply you will forever be saying "boy im glad i bought that when they were cheap."
I think you're probably right Mike. See what I can do.
Had a couple brain, er, passings of gas last night;. One, I've got some old scraps of arborists lowering line. Seems a guy, if he didn't have nice chain chokers, could tie logs with a running bowline or equivalent knot and tie other end to sliders. Running bowline will hold fast but never tighten up hard to untie.
Other notion comes from the arborist world as well-placing a floating block anywhere you want by tying off to two trees with ropes. For when the right tree in the right spot doesn't exist.
Arborist rope is totally fine.. Every bit as strong as a chicom chain.
Bowline, bowline on a bight and figure 8 work for a fixed eyelets. "Anchor bend" and half hitches for closed eyelets. Never ever a double fishermans youll be cutting that sucker off. The anchor bend is so fast and easy with no trouble untying. Almost always my first choice for tying to a ring or carabiner etc.
Yeah anchor hitch good on rings. For cinching up to logs, running bowline can't be beat, stays taught under tension but never tightens up for untying.
Heh, just looked and I still have a length of old manilla stuff. That's gotta be 35years old. Mostly scraps of polyester. But I digress.
Northeast Implement-sole US supplier of Farmi, tells me the W30R, the equivalent of the 290, is being revamped, with availability late summer. danG it. That one is closest to what I need.
Modified to add....in reality, end of summer is right about when I need it. Wondering if the price will also be revamped! No I'm not...😭
@thecfarm (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=436) I hate to keep bugging you about this when you've made your view so clear-get a winch!!-but now that it looks like Igland may be an option for me with their 2501, this and most current models I looked at have fixed upper fairleads, no apparent swivelling ability. Is your old Norse like that, and if so, ever any grief on account of?
2nd question, these current types don't appear to have chain slots for hooking up choked up logs. Wonder if I'm interpreting what I'm seeing correctly, and how much an issue, if at all.
For some reason I thought Norse/Igland was a more expensive option than some others, but now see the reverse may be true. TIA
The top one does not swivel, but the bottom one does.
I never had any trouble with that at all.
But I don't pull at any and I mean ANY sharp angles. So no reason for the swivel pulley. Well for it to swivel a lot is what I mean.
The notches I hardly ever use. Really the only time I use them is at the wood yard. I want to move a log and I just use the notches for that. If I am coming out of the woods and run into a rough spot, I can drop the twitch and get across it and winch the twitch back in. I myself would not miss them if they were not there. But at the same time, I wonder why they are not there. ???
I use to haul out pine 3 feet across with my winch. Can't use the notches with stuff that size. ;) Never had any problem with it.
I notice the box is on the wrong side too. ??? I have boxes on each side of mine to keep the end of the chains in. I would not like that. I think there should be one on each side, or at least the operator side. Nothing a welder can't fix. I buy stuff and then have to weld on it to make it the way I want it.
Thanks bud. On further inspection, it looks like they did put a couple chain slots on top the blade, either side of mast, should be adequate.
From a high pulley, sidepull will try to pull the winch over sideways and twist up the top link, since there is no down pressure on a 3 point. they float down so are willing to be raised up by forces without resisting. One corner of the buttplate will be jammed down while the other is lifted up and the winch articulates independant of the tractor until the top link spherical bearing is out of travel and starts to bend. This is because the pulley is above the height of the toplink, providing leverage against the whole system. So youll want a pretty straight top pull which isnt always convenient.
You want to buy or DIY a means to fasten a swiveling cable guide pulley down low within the imaginary confines of the 3 connection points so that pulling from that anchor site cannot induce the winch chassis to rotate. This will allow a full side pull which your nice tight stabilizer chains are designed to resist without allowing the lift arms or toplink to be injured by it.
It could be done crudely by welding a centered D-ring down low on the buttplate and attatching a swivel crane hook with a pulley. you use an Idler pulley with bearings, and capture it to the swivel eyelets with a pair of pins or bolts through flat steel shackle plates like a leaf spring suspension. This will give you a cable redirect that you keep in your 5 gallon gearbucket or clanging off the junk pegs that youll weld all over your new toy before long. Use as needed to get that log from beside the trail to line up behind you. It is also a universal snatch or redirect. An automotive or lawn and garden belt idler will work fine for a cable pulley as long as its steel.
Harbor freight has conventional snatch blocks for $30 that can be cut and welded into the fixed swing pulley style that krpan etc use.
This is the crane hook.
Crane Hook, with Latch Alloy Steel Crane Hoist Hook Drop Forged Alloy Steel Swivel Eye Hook, 1 Ton Working Load Limit,for Industry, Ship, Building(Red): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific (https://www.amazon.com/Forged-Swivel-Working-Industry-Building/dp/B0991ZP1SH/ref=asc_df_B0991ZP1SH/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=564801295637&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17215739488243814957&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9013674&hvtargid=pla-1600332329734&psc=1)
Im sure theres a few other ways one could rig it up too. The bigger the pulley radius the better for your cable life obviously.
Thanks Mike. Igland actually already do have swivelling lower pulley, which to my eyeballs looks like may be at nearly same height as other make's uppers. Maybe that's the idea with these-always loop thru lower. Shoulda asked thecfarm if that's what he does.
Probably just me overthinking things again.
One thing's for sure.... nobody's got any winches in stock, at least in size class I want. Nothing out there, from Massachusetts to Colorado....nothing. red, orange, yellow, gray...nothing. Not even any idea when...
But theres 300 electric winches within 50 miles for the cost of shipping the PTO model. The winch you can get is better than the one you cant. Log market wont wait long.
Look into Fransgard winches. We've got a V4000. It's been a good machine. Haven't used it in a long time but we've got it.
Thanks Corley5. These days, Fransgard is the brand with the Cadillac pricing scheme I've noticed. Much higher than all the others I've looked at. I haven't looked at Wally's either, thinking they too seem to need more $$ for their product, or at least more than I care to spend.
Put myself on a no-risk waiting list for a yellow one...no big expectations that I'll hear anything tho!
I pulled at a sharp angle once, and only once.
Was not like what mike is saying. Tractor was up on 2 wheels sideways!!!!! I released that rope and tractor came crashing down and I mean crashing. I was watching the tree, not the tractor. Lesson learned, watch tractor and the twitch. Tree came up against a root and I kept pulling on the rope. :o
I have never unhooked the lower pulley, it's there for a reason. I never had no reason to unhook it.
But I did have to weld a piece of flat stock under my arms so they would not bend. Those 3 foot pines and bigger are hard on a tractor. That flat stock was an inch through 3 inches across and went from the eyehook and as far back as I could go. never bent again. ;)
My head is mounted on a swivel when winching back to the tractor.
Especially true with the wireless remote.
No place to be day dreaming.
Tractor/log/tractor....repeat
Ray do you pull in from lower pulley? Seems like on Norse/Igland maybe that's the intent. Don't look too bad a height to winch from.
Maybe by next year I'll find something.🤷
This is how mine is set up. I never change it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10436/thecfarmnorsewinch8.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1233492443)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10436/thecfarmnorsewinch4.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1233492443)
This picture shows where I could lower the pulley, but never have. It's beside the slides.
The cable is draped over the top of the pulley so it does not fall down and drag behind the tractor. I don't dog it in, unless I have logs behind me.
You said something about the height of the pulley, that would be the mast.
That is why we got the Norse. Some of the others have a low mast. We had 3 foot pine and some even 4 feet to get out. Some of the winches would not get those 4 foot ones too far off the ground.
Got it. Looks like a good setup. Thanks.
Quote from: thecfarm on February 26, 2022, 05:23:36 PM
I pulled at a sharp angle once, and only once.
Was not like what mike is saying. Tractor was up on 2 wheels sideways!!!!! I released that rope and tractor came crashing down and I mean crashing. I was watching the tree, not the tractor. Lesson learned, watch tractor and the twitch. Tree came up against a root and I kept pulling on the rope. :o
I have never unhooked the lower pulley, it's there for a reason. I never had no reason to unhook it.
But I did have to weld a piece of flat stock under my arms so they would not bend. Those 3 foot pines and bigger are hard on a tractor. That flat stock was an inch through 3 inches across and went from the eyehook and as far back as I could go. never bent again. ;)
I've had my Uniforest 35E winch for about 15 years. When I first got my winch, I would pull at some significant angles, but generally only for lighter pulls. I was fortunate not to bend anything, since it's not just the weight of the log that is a concern: even a light log can put a heck of a strain on your system when it hangs up on something while pulling. It was probably reading about your mishap that made me rethink my approach. (One of those rare occasions when I was able to learn from someone else's mishap, rather than having to make the same mistake myself. Thank you for sharing that all those years ago, thecfarm.) The manual calls for pulling within 30˚ to either side of straight back. ( It's generally not the winch that will get damaged from pulling at too large an angle, it's the tractor.) If my pull is outside of that range, I either re-aim the tractor or set a snatch block to redirect the pull.
I pull off of either the upper or lower block, depending on the situation. Both of my blocks swivel. I was surprised to learn from this thread that some makes/models have upper blocks that are fixed. If my upper block did not swivel, I would limit what angles I pulled from that even further. How much I would limit it depends on the design of the pulley and how the cable is riding in it.
Its very cheap and easy to put a fixed pulley and quite a pain to make a good swivel design where the cable doesnt ever get outside the pulleys trough and wreck inself getting torn between the pulley and the plates that capture it like your typical 4 roller chinese winch fairlead loves to occasionally do. Wrecking cable and jamming in there torch tight.
Adding a swivel guide rig to a winch not made for it could require a large redesign in some cases so its worth some money to get one that is proven perfect at the manufacturers R&D expense instead of yours. My hodgepodge winch is built in such a way that id have to start over to add that afterthought on because, well.. Afterthought. Maybe version 2.0 can have that.
So if youre gonna buy a pto winch with fixed top pulley you better make sure it is significantly cheaper than the option to have top and bottom swivel guides. There is a very large intrinsic value to having them and large cost to forego.
A fixed pulley better be steel, it better have real tall side flanges of significant beef to not break off, be captured in stout steel plate tabs that wont spread apart from sidepull, and not have the space in between for the cable to jump out of the pulley and get jammed beside the pulley. The pulley should not float on a pin side to side.
Remember that an ag governor just gives more fuel when it sees load. When anything goes wrong with PTO winching the system is geared toward self destruction. It takes the operators full focus to prevent this. Not snagging the log is half the program. Not having the cable disobey its guiding devices is another.
Just so all will know, when I had the tractor up on 2 wheels that was only a 6 inch tree at the most. The weight did not cause the mishap, when it got hung up on the root was the problem.
That was why I was at a bad angle. I thought, this will be easy. First problem was I was thinking. ;D
When pulling out logs 3 feet and over, care must be taken to place the tractor correctly.
As I stated I have never had no problems with the fixed pulley on top. This winch has seen a lot of action too.
I would not be concerned about the fixed top pulley.
My winch stays on the back of my tractor. I use that winch 4-5 times a week in the summer time. Maybe only once a week in the winter time, depends on snow. Summer months that winch is being used.
Even though I just do firewood with it, I think it's being used more now. It's just smaller wood now.
I twitch out a lot of wood 6 inches across now. That is why I made up the short chains, 4 feet long. Much easier to pull 2 feet through a key hole than 4 feet.
Quote from: thecfarm on February 27, 2022, 08:00:16 AM
As I stated I have never had no problems with the fixed pulley on top. This winch has seen a lot of action too.
I would not be concerned about the fixed top pulley.
How would you know if you are pulling through the lower swivel pulley and said yourself you never change it?
That lower pulley is way above where some others are. My Farmi and the (??)Fransguard? I have used, top pulley is where thecfarm's is, but low pulley is way down at 3pt lift arm level. On mine that is just at/below the chain slots.
Quote from: mike_belben on February 27, 2022, 07:54:07 AM
A fixed pulley better be steel, it better have real tall side flanges of significant beef to not break off, be captured in stout steel plate tabs that wont spread apart from sidepull, and not have the space in between for the cable to jump out of the pulley and get jammed beside the pulley. The pulley should not float on a pin side to side.
Mike, because I have never had any of the problems that you said a fixed pulley have.
If it ain't broke, why fix it.
Winch is set up with the lower pulley, why take it off. ???
You are missing my point entirely ray.
I am describing a potential problem with someone buying a budget 3point winch that only has one fixed top pulley. If youve spent all your years using yours as pictured then you have not gotten any data on the issues im describing. Your winch is far better because of the swivel guide.
I built my swing boom cable jammer log loader with a fixed pulley and after 1 trial i cut it off and had to build a complicated swivel pulley with floating guide because ANY cable angle into the fixed pulley caused it to jump the high flanges and jam into the capture plates. Think about it.
The pulley needs to be able to follow the cable or be designed really well not to be a catstrophe. Roller fairleads on trucks have been the same for decades and everyone assumes they work great. Reality is they jam in the corner, wreck cables and get twisted up. Thats why people in the know buy hawses instead of rollers.
So, as a key contributor to this ruckus, let me state that A). I find the Norse/Igland unit to be high on my list for among other reasons, somewhat greater affordability than some other lines, and that B) these winches swivelling "lower" pulley does appear-on further review-to be at roughly same height as upper units of many other make's, and C) I'll bet-and thecfarm may be able to confirm this, that the normal way these particular units are used is via that swivelling so-called lower pulley. Seems like what a guy would do.
Maybe I'm wrong.
Ray, would you mind furnishing total height of your winch? I've got another consideration, I can't exceed about 75 inches total tractor/attachment height or I'll have to also build a new shed. Specs for that little guy I'd like states just 52 inches. I can't believe that's right. Yours is different model, but may offer clues. Thanks again.
Mine is no higher than the Rops on my tractor. Just about to head out the door, measurement later.
Or go to my gallery and check out Rays logging. All the pictures have been used in other posts.
A swivel is wonderful.
A high pull is wonderful but not too much angle.
A higher pull is more wonderful, but only straight or with guywires as in a stationary mini yarder.
To be clear i cant comment on any brands or models, just shapes and forces and ways one can glue metal. I dont shop or read reviews. I build and rebuild my own machines based on sketches from collections of iron images in my phone, and give "avoid this" opinions based on what i had to scrap.
Thanks Ray. I gotta be no higher than rops folded down. Heh, folding butt plate maybe get a guy there? I'll check your gallery stuff.
Folding butt plates will help you go forward over stumps and hurt you going backward over them unless it is hydraulic or pinnable.
On thing is certain. You want the buttplate cutter edge to engage the ground and park the machine enough to winch with the brakes off.
Both pulleys swivel on the Farmi.
I pull 99 percent with the top pulley, even at 90 degrees.
I am very careful with observing the log and the tractor.
I always stand on the side opposite the log.
I have raised the tractor more than once, but only barely off the ground.
Engine always at idle so slow pull gives good reaction time.
Ray I dont have any trees any where near 3' in diameter, my largest is about 24", so I do use the slots a lot.
IMO using the top pulley tends to raise the log somewhat helping with the twitch.
Quote from: petefrom bearswamp on February 27, 2022, 09:04:55 AM
Both pulleys swivel on the Farmi.
I pull 99 percent with the top pulley, even at 90 degrees.
I am very careful with observing the log and the tractor.
I always stand on the side opposite the log.
I have raised the tractor more than once, but only barely off the ground.
Engine always at idle so slow pull gives good reaction time.
Ray I dont have any trees any where near 3' in diameter, my largest is about 24", so I do use the slots a lot.
IMO using the top pulley tends to raise the log somewhat helping with the twitch.
Quote from: petefrom bearswamp on February 27, 2022, 09:04:55 AM
Both pulleys swivel on the Farmi.
I pull 99 percent with the top pulley, even at 90 degrees.
I am very careful with observing the log and the tractor.
I always stand on the side opposite the log.
I have raised the tractor more than once, but only barely off the ground.
Engine always at idle so slow pull gives good reaction time.
Ray I dont have any trees any where near 3' in diameter, my largest is about 24", so I do use the slots a lot.
IMO using the top pulley tends to raise the log somewhat helping with the twitch.
Your tractor is much bigger than mine. I too usually winch at idle but twice now have stalled the tractor and had it start back up in reverse rotation (oil pump no pump). Now if I think it will hang or pull hard I crank the throttle up a bit... Just something for folks to be aware of.
Thanks Mike. My terrain is mostly easy. My vision is that I may often be able to park for winching on decent grass lanes. Mainly in sections of my property where we've planted trees in more or less rows, taking into account we did follow land contours, and we were novices on that county tree planter and didn't necessarily lay everything out in a perfect grid. But what I'm guessing is that it may be possible to take out whole rows from just one or two stations.
Later I might be down in the swamp logging a bit. Total different story there-downed timber, wet springs, stumps ..but no plans or need at this time. It's "cedar swamp" and I love it just the way it is. Probably never need the winch in there.
I was only speculating on that hinged plate due to low clearance of my shed overhead door. I gotta work with what I've already got, each piece must work with all the rest.
If I had the mechanical aptitude that was in the fingernails you clipped last week, we wouldn't even need this thread!
Also true-there isn't any of what I'm after anywhere in N. America anyway! We're just talking.😏
At the time of purchase the dealer also sold Farmis and the Fransgard was a bit cheaper and in stock :). We bought it new in Dec. of 97 and cut 45,000 bdft of sugar maple saw timber off the farms with it on our 180 MF during that winter. The top pulley on the V4000 Fransgard swivels. We NEVER used the lower pulley, and always pull directly off the cable never using the notches for the choker in the butt plate. We used it to log some red pine to build a barn from the sugar maple dollars and used it in a friend's cedar swamp a few winters on his Kubota. It's still at his place. Maybe I'll go get it one of these days :) or cut some more cedar with him :)
Whatever machine you purchase figure its limitations out early on :)
Fransguard 4000 in Forestry and Logging (forestryforum.com) (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=18902.0)
Thanks Corley5. Fransgard look like great rigs, just seem to need $$1500 or so more per tech spec than equivalents. Maybe not the case when you got yours, but sure seems to be the case today.
It is good to have all this time to ponder, as whatever winch I may eventually end up with, it seems likely the iron ore has not yet been mined👎.
Quote from: mike_belben on February 27, 2022, 08:05:44 AM
Quote from: thecfarm on February 27, 2022, 08:00:16 AM
As I stated I have never had no problems with the fixed pulley on top. This winch has seen a lot of action too.
I would not be concerned about the fixed top pulley.
How would you know if you are pulling through the lower swivel pulley and said yourself you never change it?
Quote from: thecfarm on February 27, 2022, 08:27:36 AM
Mike, because I have never had any of the problems that you said a fixed pulley have.
If it ain't broke, why fix it.
Winch is set up with the lower pulley, why take it off. ???
Ray, If you are always using your lower pulley, then you are correct, there is no need for the upper pulley to be pivoting. The cable is always running on the same line to the lower pulley.
I'm not familiar with all of the details on your winch. My winch, and others I have used, is set up for it to be very easy to remove the cable from the lower pulley. I'm assuming they did that for a reason. It would probably have been easier to design a pulley that was closed on both sides, and the only time you would remove it is when replacing the cable.
I do pull from the upper pulley regularly when I need a little lift on the logs I am dragging out. At longer distances, the difference in the angle of pull is so small that it makes no noticeable differences in pulling.
However, when I get the logs up closer to the winch, that extra bit of height can make all the difference in the world. For example, if I'm winching from the trail, and my trail has a ditch along side or if it was cut into a side hill, that lip at the edge of the trail will often catch the end of the log, making pulling in that last few feet difficult. If there are large rocks or roots along there, I'm not likely to be able to just force the log through. Taking the cable out of the lower pulley gives me more lift height, allowing a much easier final pull to the tractor.
The other place I use just the high pulley is when I want to lift the ends of the logs a bit if I'm hooking the chains into the slots on the winch, rather than pulling them out on the cable. My lower pulley is too low to do that lifting.
@wisconsitom (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=43745) ,I think you asked the height.
Mine is not quite 6 feet tall, 71 inches, raised up it's 89 inches high.
But mine is kinda on the big size.
I've seen some for a 25 hp tractor, those are small.
Mike, the Norse does have pins to put in so can drag with it. When backing up and not pinned the butt plate will not pivot, kinda would be a bad design if it folded up when winching in.
john does your top pulley swivel or is it stationary?
tom dont worry, i can still make booger welds without those finger nails.
corley, do you do anything small time, or is it strictly supersize? ;D
Veddy goood...at least if I should find a Norse or Igland, I won't have to modify my building to back it in!
Don't modify. Build another one!!!
If saw what mine is in right now you would know I don't know nothing.
I built it before I started to live here. Built it out of 2 x trees. ;D Not a spelling error, trees. It looks awful. :( Has a wide rubber belt for the roof. Does not leak. Cedar trees for rafters with a few maple thrown in too. Tin roof for the siding. Oh well does not leak, I know I said that all ready. Has to have at least one good point.
It's kinda out of sight.
Too funny Ray. I've been responsible for some interesting architecture too!
Without dragging you thru a decade or so where some other stuff was going on up at our tree land, about 3 years ago we got one of these Amish sheds on skids units dropped off. Great value at that time, 40-footer, we cut it nearly in half, for a bit of shed and a bit of cabin. Overhead door on tractor side, I just clear with rops down.
We like our snug and efficient little scene there, but are in fact thinking about another shed, to relieve overcrowding in the shed.😁
I have the same winch as thecfarm. I purchased mine in 2005 for $2900 shipped to my barn including shipping and 3 additional chokers ( 6 total ). At that time I shopped around with Farmi and Fransgard. The Norse 450 that I bought turned out to be a great purchase. It has served me well all these years with not one problem. A great purchase. I have no idea why other makes cost so much more but they do. In my opinion the other brands are over priced. Some might be just as good but definitely not as great a value when price is considered.
Now all this talk about upper pulley and lower pulley can get kind of confusing. Yes my winch has an upper pulley at the top of the winch that is fixed and it has a lower pulley that swivels. The difference with mine is that it has two positions that the lower pulley can be mounted. There are two sets of stout horizontal ears that you merely pop a large pin out and pop it back in to remount the swiveling pulley at the height desired. Easy peasy. I use the upper position for very large diameter logs mostly or if I have a bunch of polewood hooked onto the notches.
As for pulling logs in on an angle that definitely is a bad idea. Line your tractor in line with the log unless you have a snatchblock. That snatchblock just might save your life or a flopped tractor. I run the tractor engine just above idle and stand on the tractor side that appears to be the greater angle of pull. I stand near the rear tire with my arm extended and my hand on the rear tire and watch the log as it is retrieved. If the log gets caught on some thing I can usually see that. If I happen not to see it get caught I will feel the tractor tire move and can react by releasing the pull rope. Anyways that's how I do it.
Its your money and your choice so look at all of them and make your choice, but definitely get one. You won't regret it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10129/IMG_5424.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1646000397)
I just noticed after all these years of looking at the winch side. We bought ours back in '93. That was when they came with 6 chains. But as I say, you won't be needing six 8 foot chains with a 40hp tractor.
There was a piece of tubing that ran across the back of it, maybe about a foot below the other adjustment for the pulley. It was about 3 inches thick. Seem like 4-5 times a day a log would get under that and we could not winch it higher. My Father drove the tractor and I was the grounds guy. He would have to get on the tractor and drive forward a few feet and I would winch it back up higher. We had a piece of plate steel welded on it to make it flat, like yours.
When you get one, watch what is coming at you too. I was cutting a lot of small dead stuff, there was a lot down too, and a few times some of the dead trees would come right at me.
Thanks bitternut (and great tree BTW!). Yeah I'm totally sold on the value of the Igland product-it has become my hoped-for item. I get the pulley setup on them and it's fine. The big deal seems to be that nobody has anything right now
Yeah I get that. Used to rope many large limbs down on lowering lines and every now and then another usually smaller branch would fall onto or get tangled up on rope. Down she comes a-zinging on that line, straight at you.
Quote from: mike_belben on February 27, 2022, 04:09:00 PM
corley, do you do anything small time, or is it strictly supersize? ;D
Go big or stay home ;) :D ;D :)
Having the two locations to mount the bottom pulley comes in handy when you need to winch larger trees like this red oak. You need to have room for the hook and the three sliders on the end of the cable. The Norse hook cable end is attached with a swagged fitting that takes up very little room unlike some others that have three cable clamps attaching the end hook.
I heat my camp and house totally with wood dragged out of my woods so the winch gets used quite often. My cable is original and still in good shape so they will last a long time. I have a neighbor at home that leaves his Wallenstein sitting outside next to the barn. I would not recommend that you do that. :o ???
Here is a large oak hooked on mine.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10129/IMG_5308.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1612719389)
What I meant by the dead trees coming at me, is at my feet. What I was winching in would push a dead tree laying on the ground and that would try to take me off my feet. I had a lot of dead fir in one area. Most was only about 6 inches across.
bitternut, a big one!! I noticed it looks kinda low. The 3 foot pines I was talking about would come out like that. I did not have enough power to lift them all the way up.
I had a longer chain for those. That 8 foot chain would not go around them. Only need one longer chain. ;D
No I got that Ray. I was comparing it with another tree activity where the object at the end of the line of force is you!
Gotcha.
I drive by the place that I am cutting every time I go up or down the road. It's on a slight hill, I could almost have started on it again, but I did not want to fall while doing it due to the ice. Summer will be here in a few more months. Just have to wait. Then I have to wait for it to dry up some too. The water collects in one part and just seems to sit there until late June.
You guys do realize the trees I'm mobilizing to thin got planted mostly in 2013!? So, what I'm saying is that in one sense, I've got time. But the larch are in need of continued thinning now already. Then too, there's the slightly earlier sections-2008 thru 2010-that are much larger, although I'm mainly leaving that area as a seed orchard. Plus the swamp, if I mess with anything in there. Nuff stuff to do👍.
All's ya, now you be sure to yell in my ear if you hear about anything available in this size class...or maybe better whisper 🤫.
Quote from: bitternut on February 27, 2022, 09:08:40 PM
Having the two locations to mount the bottom pulley comes in handy when you need to winch larger trees like this red oak. You need to have room for the hook and the three sliders on the end of the cable. The Norse hook cable end is attached with a swagged fitting that takes up very little room unlike some others that have three cable clamps attaching the end hook.
I heat my camp and house totally with wood dragged out of my woods so the winch gets used quite often. My cable is original and still in good shape so they will last a long time. I have a neighbor at home that leaves his Wallenstein sitting outside next to the barn. I would not recommend that you do that. :o ???
Here is a large oak hooked on mine.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10129/IMG_5308.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1612719389)
Looks good 👍. What size winch and cable run on your outfit
While we're waiting for responses to WB's question, here's my latest, tee hee....
If'n I get a winch, I will probably use it in winter quite a bit. We've got Heterobasidion root disease pockets within 25 miles of our land, which makes me want to harvest pine family members during cold weather. I know about the stump treatments and yes, those will come into play in another twenty years, when much larger trees and larger scale thinning will be involved....so..we don't have to talk about that😆...
...so here's the question..how does running your rope or cable back and forth thru the snow and winding it back up and putting away wet or iced up affect winch performance/maintenance? I know some of you also routinely do winter work with your machines-just wondered if that becomes an issue. Even with my tight shed quarters, I should be able to keep the winch inside, but lots of snow etc can come in with it if it acts anything like any part of my tractor that has been physically in contact with the snow where some always accumulates.
My Farmi 290 does not have a lower pulley and I use the chain slots on big trees for skidding out. If they are to big to lift off the ground like this maple I put two chokers on the tree with the chains coming up from the bottom, one on each side of the butt. That way I can pick up high enough. That's a 30 hp tractor with a 290 winch.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21065/RdSideFireWood3.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1354311489)
gg
I maybe should have added, and this is from my personal experience, if you are skidding a heavy hitch from a high point on a small tractor like the top pulley in my case or a lower pulley set up high to accommodate big logs you better be mighty careful. It is the turns that will get you. Flat straight going may feel like there is nothing to it - no struggle, no danger and you get comfortable with it. But if you make a sharp turn and the hitch gets out at about 45* or more it can pull you over in a heart beat. If you are coming up hill the turn does not even have to be that sharp because you are moving into a side-hill position. Look at the picture above and imagine the log up near the top of the winch
By using a hitch on your log with a chain on each side up from underneath it you can always pick it off the ground no matter what the diameter is - as long as the 3ph can lift it that is.
gg
Yep, I've had that heart attack moment you just described.
Great pointer, Gordon. If I end up doing what I think I'm gonna be doing, I should be able to winch out from the edge of blocks, on lanes I've established, from both directions, then invite neighbor over with the mini Gafner and pick up. Time will tell on that.
In other news, a dealer in VT that one of you kind souls mentioned to me is now saying that maybe the littlest Igland could in fact still be coming, possibly in April. Time will tell on that 😜. too! Hey, I know a guy that has a birthday in April. Unfortunately for that guy, it's his wife's turn to get something....
That good news on the winch.
Others can answer the winter logging better than me. Yes, I did and do it. But not for 6-8 hours steady day after day. Probably the longest I ever really did much winter work, in snow, was when I cut the bog off. That was an adventure. I got it in my head I was going to cut off some of the bog. This is floating land, no way to get a tractor on it. I had to winch everything to me on the trail. Most of the "trees" was really no bigger than 6 inches across. Stubby and dead stuff was the norm. I would lay down a chain and pile wood on the chain. I would twitch out a bundle of wood. I would pull out 150 feet of cable and had another 100 to add to that. Was a slow process, but I wanted you to know I would pull out all the cable many times in a day. Never had any problems with the snow on the drum or any ice problems.
Just had problems with breaking through the snow and putting my foot into a hole and getting my foot wet.
The deer enjoyed the limbs!!!
On the winter work - I have never had a problem with the cable or drum icing up or freezing. I work a lot in the snow and my tractor stays outside. I do tarp it but not the winch. If there is an ice storm the chokers hanging on the winch will get iced up of course but the cable and drum stay good.
gg
Thanks men. Any reason a guy shouldn't hook a section of choker cable onto the end of your mainline if you need a little extra reach for a log....not winding that up on the winch of course....but just on the occasion you can't quite get to a piece? I'm gonna have like a 30 ft. cat choker and another shorter one with nothing much to do.
Nah, be fine.
Quote from: PoginyHill on February 17, 2022, 02:51:02 PM
Quote from: g_man on February 17, 2022, 01:12:41 PM
Quote from: PoginyHill on February 17, 2022, 12:08:42 PM
@g_man (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=11065) where can I get that doohickie you wrap the strap around that is pinned to your snatch block? I like that you can wrap the strap around the tree without having to man-handle the pulley around the tree and through the strap loop. Or is that what you made yourself?
You type faster than me 47
I went thru a couple iterations. Like yours probably, mine came with a long strap attached to the block with a 5/8" bolt thru a bushing. It was real cumbersome getting that 13 lb block around a big tree and thru the loop while keeping it at any height. So I got a 5/8" pin and found a shackle at a local actual hardware store, Dad's 4 By in St J, that I could drill out to 5/8". The shackle and pin was much better because I could put a strap, any strap, on a tree w/o all that weight, then pull the pin and attach the block to the strap with the shackle. Used it that way for a long time. Then one day I saw an Igland block and copied their method by welding that nose made from 1/2" rod onto the shackle. Life got even easier. Nothing to take apart and very strong.
gg
Perfect! Thank you.
@g_man (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=11065) Great idea! Welded mine up last night. Looking forward to using it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/58760/IMG_53965B15D.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1646136529)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/58760/IMG_53955B15D.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1646136501)
Looks good. What is the nose part doing or for ?
Are you putting the eyes of the strap through and over it ?
The loop end of the strap goes through the shackle and over the "nose" to secure it. No need to hold the snatch block while I wrap the strap around a tree and no need to remove a pin. I saw g_man's and wanted to shamelessly copy it.
That's what I thought. I was getting thrown off by the blue part of the strap in the picture. That should be really handy 👍👍
The blue is just a sleeve on the loop ends to protect against abrasion.
ahh... i get it now. very slick.
I made a change to my snatchblock.
Some of you might recognize the hook as a gutter cleaning chain.
I've repurposed them into many new life forms. One being a large sunflower.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/26307/20220301_103428.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1646163599)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/26307/20220301_103448.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1646163568)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/26307/20220301_103458.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1646163567)
i thought i posted this but went back a few pages and dont see so maybe i forgot. not as awesome as a self release but not too bad to deal with for my infrequent use. the open end loop size is adjustable to compensate for the tree size. just wrap twice for smaller ones. doesnt bark em up too bad either being a pretty big rope. or slide to the ground like a flat strap.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/0219220954.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1645323206)
i will eventually have to make a self release block when the parts turn up in some junkpile.
Hey mates, as long as I'm just twiddling my thumbs here, waiting for the boatload of winches to dock in Milwaukee😂🤣😭, thought I'd pop this question;. Measured height of my PTO and it is 20". What if anything does this say about the suitability and fit of my machine for such winches? Thanks as always.
I would think my NH 40 hp is just a little higher. I have 18 inches clearance than the pto.
All the makers make at least one small one and then a bigger one.
I've seen ones that will fit a 20 hp tractor. Looked more like a toy, but hauling out small stuff, that thing would sneak through the woods.
As I always say, I have to plan and cut roads for the big tractor.
Wife has a 30 hp, I put a trailer on the back of that once and hauled out wood that way. Slow, but did not have to cut and plan out roads either.
Edit alert, I should have measured first.
Wife's 30 hp is like yours, the 40 hp is about 2 feet.
I would put a winch behind the wife's tractor. Yes it could not haul out a 3 foot long 16 feet long, but it would do something smaller.
Well I don't want to say it would not do it, But you could not haul it out of the woods with just the use of the winch, unless you would drive forward the length of the cable and keep winching it to you.
Thanks Ray. Yeah I'm 20" o.c.
Today maybe I'll call dealers (again) in Massachusetts, Vermont, Ohio... let's see, who else...but they don't even answer the phone anymore.
If your putting it on a 3 pt hitch it won't matter as to the height of your pto. The length of the pto shaft is what matters. you may have to cut it to a certain length to fit. The dealer should help with that.
Listen to Ed.
But just for an example of difference - the pto on my L3010 tractor is 24", the pto on my JP290 winch about 12". That's a one foot difference and I have ran the combo for 20 years w/o any trouble at all.
The Farmi JL501 is at 22".
gg
Yeah, on my postage stamp, it's going to be pole-sized conifer thinnings from fairly dense planting that only began in 2008 and then more in 2013, so not huge material. Maybe bits of other stuff, but not a priority.
Does not sound like pto height/angle is a big concern. I just saw it mentioned somewhere in something I read.
@wisconsitom (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=43745) I just saw a CL ad from Park Falls for a tractor winch. Not sure if the size or HP matches up to what you're looking for. Just a heads up.
Thanks Otis 1, I'll check that out.
Should point out in above, despite youthfulness of my planted material, it is the larch that is sizing up so rapidly that a nearly 66 yr old man can continue to plan for significant early thinning/harvest during his time on earth. Things like white pine and Norway spruce ain't no slouches either when it comes to growth in that area, but no comparison to that hybrid larch-it's getting big already.
Edited to add:. I found that ad, it's a big hydraulic winch. Thanks anyway Otis 1.
Man, I gots to tell you guys, might have found the route to ending up with the winch I'm really after, the Igland 2501. Over on tractorbynet not sure how I missed this, but member there mentioned vendor right up in Irma, not too awful far away at all. Shows favorable price but like all vendors, no stock.
Still, he spies some units on the horizon, maybe late spring. Just can't predict which models, also similar to all other vendors I've spoken with. Still, best lead so far!
As always, I'm not so much in a hurry as I'm wanting to end up with the right unit, sized to tractor, scaled to intended work (pole-sized softwoods), and price/ value ratio.
Quick question for you winch users....tractor brake on or off? My tractor shuts off if I leave the seat and don't set the brake.
Bucket or forks on the ground, elevated, stuck in the ground?
I guess that was two questions 😜.
BTW, most of the time, I'll be in snow, not bare ground. Thanks
The winch should provide its own braking against the pull, so long as you lower your 3-point hitch all the way down to allow it to sink into the ground as you pull. Personally I apply the parking brake only if the tractor will roll without it set. And that is a small percentage of the time. Looks like you have no choice. There is very little downside to applying the brake. On the bucket question, I normally have my FEL removed when I am in the woods winching.
Thanks Pog. I can probably defeat that seat switch, but maybe someday out of warranty.
It all depends on your situation. I work in the winter and keep my tractor on the trails as much as possible. The trails become hard pack snow or ice so the winch does not dig itself in very well at all. Likewise on frozen ground or ledge . So I have to depend on the ice chains to hold the tractor. I just got in the habit of setting the brake and putting down pressure on the bucket cutting edge when ever I use my winch.
gg
Good to know Gordon-that's how I now envision using mine-fairly similar situations I think.
Speaking of "mine", after much wailing and gnashing of teeth about lack of local vendors for these things,I now find myself having to choose between two nearly identical offerings-a Norse 250 about 105 miles from home, or an Igland 2501 about 130 miles away.
Is there one darn reason, as far as product, to choose one over the other? Price spread is $25. The one a bit of further away is the slightly cheaper one. Both are awaiting shipment in next two months, the slightly higher priced one with red blade instead of black, seems the more likely to actually show up.
I always set the brake, it will shut off if I don't. Just about second nature after so many years. Just like shifting.
And I always lower the bucket all the way down each and every time. It's a just in case, but probably won't matter. I think the manual says to do that too.
I have never compared the two. Never seen an Igland.
They both weight the same??
That would be mine deciding factor, take the one that weights more. Might be better built?? Sounds good.
Hi Ray. Units are identical. I'm going with the Norse because that vendor appears to have some coming quite soon. It's $25 more....but another aspect, both vendors are good folks I think, but the Norse guy is a big implement and equipment dealer. Think he sells Kioti tractors, which might be nice if I need a demo on cutting that pto shaft. Kiotis are like my Bobcat. 👍
Oh, and your tractor brake/fel arrangement works for me! Good to know, no issues.
I might change my mind, but right now think my bucket'll just stay on. Watched a YouTube of a guy set up close to what I will be, and his machine was getting jerked around on snow, a little too much I thought. Then again, I found myself cringing just a bit at his saw handling and a few other things in that vid. No FF guy I don't think.
I have a twitch of firewood behind me and some in front too. ;)
Meaning I have some firewood in the bucket too. It all adds up!!!
But saying that, the loader does get in the way turning around. But it's worth it to keep it on.
I have made many trips with a load of rocks in the bucket to fill in a wet hole and then came back out with it loaded with firewood.
I straddled an 8 inch dead fir that was on the ground once, when there was snow on the ground. I had a hard time figuring why the tractor did not want to stay in one place.
Get ready to use the left and right brake too. When hauling out just about all that the tractor wants and you have to make a turn, tractor might not want to turn. Step on one brake, it will turn, unless you are on ice.
Thanks bud, can't wait to get that Norse.
Two of my oldest larch, from about 2008 planting, so pretty big trees now, cracked off in the wind and are hung up in other trees. Might be my first use-try getting that stuff down without having to saw under big stems under tension. Many uses.
Haven't seen much here about KRPAN winches, stoutly made in the European Union (Slovenia which is a major worldwide manufacturer of highly regarded skidding winches) with key parts from Japan, Austria and Germany. Very similar to Tajfun winches. I bought a 3.5E about three years ago and it has been great. It is best for tractors of 25-45 hp and pulls 7,700 lbs. I am getting a larger tractor and a larger KRPAN winch so no longer need this one. I am in northern New Mexico. Yes, we have trees here at 8,000 ft - mostly Ponderosa pine and fir. Use the winch for firewood and for thinning to help against forest fires. A large one right now near me but prevailing wind moves it away. But next time??
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/70322/Logging_winch2~2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1652032738)br>
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/70322/Logging_winch5~2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1652032737)
Other than the screen that looks exactly like my Tajfun winch 8).
Noticed that too. Looks a nice unit, a little big for my tractor maybe.
In any case, I've got a Norse ordered that is supposed to float up on these shores sometime this month. Woohoo..
On the advice of a fellow ff member, I also bought the Krpan 3.5 this winter. So far I must say it has worked out quite well. Compared to my previous hydraulic winch set up, it is miles better but dang does it winch in quickly, even at idle. I have a 45hp tractor which is at the top end of the Krpan model I got. It will easily pull the tractor backwards if I don't release the pull cord fast enough.
Yo Norse 250 winch is at dealer awaiting my pickup!
A month later than expected-no big deal. I only need it starting this winter.
Woo f'n hoo!
smiley_clapping
It's going to be time for pictures pretty soon !
Alright, think I've got my shotgun rider for tmrw. Go git it!
Unit is at dealer between Wausau, WI and Merrill, WI. I live in Appleton, and unit will be taken to and reside near Suring, lol.
Zig zag wanderer!
Had to leave it sit til just yesterday/today. Hooked up now, think everything's ready to go, and yes, I mean no, no pics yet..... we'll get there.
But here's what I can say already, having not yet winched a log...... already loving the size matchup on my tractor. Looks kinda small and right, and me keeping in mind, a whole bunch of what I'll be pulling will be larch, in everything from bundles of 6 and 8 inchers, to 12 and 14 in. stuff, which is actually fairly heavy material....and it seems it may be ideal. Plus, a bit more weight hanging off the back end of tractor when scooping ain't a bad thing, though I've already got beet juice rears.
I def need one of those one-handed sawzalls all the plumbers and electricians use nowadays. My big old clunky DeWalt plugin was not the ideal tool today on that driveshaft. She's cut though🍻.
Congrats!
Don't remember what size tractor you have and don't know about the hybrids but European Larch is &#(@ heavy for a softwood. Haven't logged it but milled it, edged it, stacked it, carried it, loaded it etc. Usually a couple mbf a day and a 16" SED 16ft log is a beast compared to EWP.
Take it easy for a few, go light and go often until you figger out the limits. Will you be cutting to length in the woods or skidding tree length?
Oh yeah and where are the pics of the new toy? 8)
Yeah these larch should be comparable in weight/density to that euro larch. Like you say, for pine family, a whole different beast. Would you say it tends to dry slowly? I get that feeling.
Probably skid out bucked up in woods. Last couple winters, I pulled many smallish stems out with just choker cables. Made the mistake of not limbing right away. Won't do that again-just like the wood, those branch stubs are hard once dried out.
I think the winch will allow me to continuously thin runts, cookeds, crowded, until my days are done. My guys can figure out what to do with all the good stuff when that time comes.
I've been cutting out bad stuff for years.
I do feel twitching out short ones are easier on a tractor.
There is a lot of leverage 40 feet behind you.
Most of my trails are not straight.
My woods are hard to get around in.
A few years ago I started mowing all our trail up in the plantation areas of our property. Has made a big difference-now we can get around with relative ease save for the wettest of conditions. Funny how just mowing, and pretty soon you've got a nice thick turf.
Not gonna be that way everywhere, but in my case I should be able to set up sideways on these lanes-I plow them in winter too-and snake stuff out. Time will tell.
Last two winters, I would be dragging cut stems out to the edge of blocks manually. Hey I really do love working in the woods, but when it's 20 degrees and your down to a Tshirt, and your heart is pounding....time for a change. Heavy trees those larch!
Quote from: wisconsitom on July 02, 2022, 08:54:07 PM
Yeah these larch should be comparable in weight/density to that euro larch. Like you say, for pine family, a whole different beast. Would you say it tends to dry slowly? I get that feeling.
Probably skid out bucked up in woods. Last couple winters, I pulled many smallish stems out with just choker cables. Made the mistake of not limbing right away. Won't do that again-just like the wood, those branch stubs are hard once dried out.
I think the winch will allow me to continuously thin runts, cookeds, crowded, until my days are done. My guys can figure out what to do with all the good stuff when that time comes.
Yes it does seem to dry slow but also seems to not have much stain/mold issues when dead stacked like many others do, ymmv.
Many logs have a serious amount of tension. Some (fresh) have fungal issues.
It is a beautiful wood especially planed. Here is some fresh off the saw today
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37318/IMG_20220708_164629264.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1657328102)
If you are lucky you don't hit any pitch pockets (there can be A LOT). The pitch is really something else.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37318/IMG_20220708_163919749_HDR.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1657328182)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37318/IMG_20220708_164641721_HDR.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1657328050)
The sawdust itches like fiberglass insulation and the slivers are like barbed fishhooks, many nearly invisible (use duct tape or gorilla tape to get them out). Get your nails/screws in early and fast, it is pretty hard!
Alternative is to lower or raise the logging machine on a cable. Have to see if the driverless forwarder on a slope concept went any further.
New T-Winch 10.3
T-WINCH 10.3 Walkaround - YouTube (https://youtu.be/wJFZdzCNlQQ)
8 days have passed.
Been working in the woods?
Ah, sorry for the abrupt disappearance. All's good with Norse, just a big pile of life got in the way of foruming.
Now I haven't really used it yet-that's coming soon-but I sure do like how it sits on the back of my Bobcat tractor. Pretty amazed at how much lift I've got on that 3-pt.
I cut my pto twice-thought I might still be in bottom-out territory, but all looks proper now.
I still have a bunch of these small larch sticks to delimb. Think I'll cinch a bunch of them with one of my old cable chokers with the bell ending, hook on winch end hook, and drag up to where my sawbuck is. That should be a good, easy first trial. They drag good butt-first.
BTW, the Norse 250 does not come with a kickstand. I found that blocking up the unit on the tractor side-and using the pallet it came on wedged against the top pulley on the back side-to be the way to mount this model to my 3-pt. Feel free to ask if that doesn't make sense. You don't want the unit tipping backwards-that's where I wedged the pallet-and you don't want it falling forwards onto your tractor-that's why the underneath blocking-while mounting to your tractor.
The Norse that I have the guard on the winch is tipped down and there should be a bar on one side to pin it in place.
That guard is long gone now. I had to build another one for it.
Hey Ray, yeah, we may be welding bits and pieces, maybe another sidebox. I ain't too bothered by the prospect of throwing saw (in saw case), gas and oil in milk crate, choker chains, maybe my cable chokers, whatever other junk, in tractor bucket for now. My site is small, but densely packed with timber. I forget something, just go up to shop and get.
I think Ray is saying like this
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21065/3776904-0004.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1658833994)
gg
Yes I am.
Thanks.
OK see what yer saying there. Good to know-thanks!
Wish dealer dude was half as helpful.
I might have posted this you tube I did already on this thread.
How to mount chain saw to tractor - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCPEJ6HEgiU)
I myself don't like things in the bucket. Last time I put a shovel in there and forgot about it. :(
I do have a box behind the seat too. But that is a bother to get things out of. The chainsaw and fuel I can walk up to the tractor and take it off.
Just looked at mine and can see where guard is made to swivel down. Guard on 250 don't amount to much and looks as though would just barely, if at all, prevent unit falling rear-ward, if that's the idea....maybe works better on bigger units with taller guards? Also, maybe I'm wrong but it seems like "stand" is positioned to prevent unit falling forward. Guard laid down like that wouldn't prevent.
In any case, I have figured out a good method to mount and dismount mine. It's all about how you've got straight horizontal steel ledge just above where buttplate attaches. There's your square space to set down on your 12x12 or whatever block you need. Just one way or another make sure you can't knock it down backwards.
I've heard of using t posts if you got nothing else to hold an implement up for attachment.
As always, love the discussion👍
My winch has front legs to hold it up, rear legs would be easier. My brothers doesn't, he backs up to about a foot or two from a tree lowers the winch then puts a choker around the tree (for safety not to hold the winch) then disconnect the top link and then drive the tractor back until the top of the winch is against the tree then remove the drive shaft and lower pins and done.
Quote from: wisconsitom on July 26, 2022, 05:17:35 PM
Just looked at mine and can see where guard is made to swivel down. Guard on 250 don't amount to much and looks as though would just barely, if at all, prevent unit falling rear-ward, if that's the idea....maybe works better on bigger units with taller guards? Also, maybe I'm wrong but it seems like "stand" is positioned to prevent unit falling forward. Guard laid down like that wouldn't prevent.
In any case, I have figured out a good method to mount and dismount mine. It's all about how you've got straight horizontal steel ledge just above where buttplate attaches. There's your square space to set down on your 12x12 or whatever block you need. Just one way or another make sure you can't knock it down backwards.
I've heard of using t posts if you got nothing else to hold an implement up for attachment.
As always, love the discussion👍
Where are the pics? Your gallery looks empty, or am I missing something. thanks for some pics in advance.
On my old farmi I have a short piece of pipe welded to a plate at an angle.. the plate is bolted to the winch w two bolts. Then have another piece of pipe for a "leg" that fits inside the stub and pins there with some bolt that was laying around so it comes off. The winch already has two legs so this setup makes a third on the "back" so it can't tip over when off the tractor. I only take the winch off to put on brush hog twice a year though 🤔 no pics sorry beenthere I am out of town for work again ;D
Makes sense mudfarmer.
I'm hoping to rarely need to remove.
Last time I removed the winch was when I needed a tire replaced on it a couple years ago.
Wife has a 30 hp tractor with a bush hog on it. That stays on all summer, then the snow blower is put on in the winter months.
I guess I missed this thread somehow. I have an Igland winch and I love it. I made a bunch of modifications to it and I thought I had a thread on here that I could point you to but I can't find it. (Did all photos from 2019 disappear?)
Be interesting to see, @DeerMeadowFarm (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=16694), if'n you can find.
Thinking I'ma go up and twitch some stuff tomorrow,-no real need to do, since it's usually all winter work for me-but anxious to put mine in action. Been way busy putting up a new building up there. Still got electrical, but otherwise done yesterday....woohoo! More room for shtuff.
For my home-
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/67943/parking_trolley.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1659567866)
made winch, I made a dolly with 2 straight and 2 swivel wheels and posts to hold it level, that way I can roll it to the back of the shop when not needed and roll it to tractor to easily mount when wanted. It weighs 690 pounds, so a little too heavy for me to man-handle onto 3 point.
Yes sir, far too much weight for the likes of me too. Even my little 290-pounder or whatever it is, you want to have things braced when attaching/reattaching from tractor.
Note to @thecfarm (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=436) and @g_man (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=11065), now I look again, can see where pivot point of that guard is low enough, it may well prop up, a bit better than blade itself, 's far as rear-ward tip.
Anyone...advisable to use winch/blade and blocking along with 3-point lift capability to slightly raise tractor off rear end to check beet juice-filled tires air pressure?
Are you asking to check air pressure in rear tires?
Very nice! I'm a big fan of having everything on wheels when you have a concrete floor. Another option for guys unable to fabricate steel is self made wooden pallets and a pallet jack will do some amazing things
What modern tractor do you have with 3pt down pressure? My Kubota does not have it but my old Belarus does.
What is the function of checking pressure with tires off the ground? I hope you are planning on keeping them on the ground during normal use! ;D
QuoteAnyone...advisable to use winch/blade and blocking along with 3-point lift capability to slightly raise tractor off rear end to check beet juice-filled tires air pressure?
Don't think you can put down pressure on your 3ph to lift the tractor.. if I understand your question.Or does your Bobcat able to do that?
Would like to see some pics of the new winch and tractor. That possible?
Whoa whoa fellas, as said, beet juice in rears, so I've been led to believe one should check pressure with valve stems at 12 o'clock, so as to limit likelihood of having said juice enter your tire gauge and mess things up. I've further heard one can give a little blast of air into tire first, before taking reading, to clear any juice out of valve. I dunno, nobody here knows about filling rear tires? Ain't no biggie, just wondered if there's anything inherently wrong with using winch blade, with some nice big blocking under it or so...to lift butt end of tractor one inch off the ground, for as long as it takes to check the tire pressure in two rear tires. Ain't no thang, I'll manage.🥱
No need to get excited. We know about the stem being at high 12 0'clock to check when fluid filled tires. It's the right way to do it.
Our comment is wondering about your implication you are lifting the rear wheels using the 3ph/winch to lift.
Or are you going to jack up under the axle?
I've been around loaded tires all my life.
I rarely check air pressure.
Not like a car.
No need to jack it up to check pressure either.
Or the few times I ever checked, I didn't.
I can just about count the times I have checked tire pressure on 2 hands in more than 40 years.
@wisconsitom (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=43745) How did it work for you? ;D
I've had a Farmi 501 on my 90hp case for 22 years. Just bought a new wallenstein 110. Hopefully I get as good a service out of it.
Woodfarmer, why the change?
Got a good deal on it, just wanted a new one I guess.
Alrighty fellas, my apologies for ghosting out on the forum. As was noted by some above, I can be a poor forumeer at times, given to too much excitement, yea verily, agitation. That is dumb of me
The other thing that happened is I've been playing carpenter, plumber, anything but logger all last year and into this one. I've never been so booked up with stuff I want to do as I am now that I'm retired! Good stuff though-we're getting things in order up at the shack.
But, Norse 250 has proven ideal for my needs. A couple months ago, I did use it to bust out and drag clumps of larch stems still with branches, that had laid in the weeds for 2 years. Walked that stuff-maybe 10 at a grab, using a section of choker cable to wrap bunch, then dragged to where needed. That stuff was stuck down to the ground but the bunches came quick and clean.
Yesterday I finally started thinning my larch plantation blocks. Fantastic. Wish the weather was different-much too warm and snow is going bye bye, but otherwise very satisfying. These "logs" are only about 10 inch butts, but are long and HEAVY. This larch is odd stuff in that it grows extremely fast, has big wide growth rings, yet is much denser and heavier than an equivalent stick of pine or spruce. What a relief, not having to hand haul them out! Fun using the sliders and getting at 3 or 4 at a time.
I need trunk protectors since I'm snaking out such long sticks. Leave trees can get rubbed, so 2 5-gal buckets had their bottoms cut out and a slit up one side. Poifect!
I'll get caught up later.
Alright, got another dumb question;. Kid knows of a half shipping container that's gonna go real cheap. We can use. Getting it to place, then putting in exact spot are the challenges. Regarding that 2nd bit, moving the thing on site, I am led to believe such units-20 ft. i.e. half shipping container, weigh in around 5200 lbs. That's just within spec pulling capacity of my Norse 250.
Not saying we're going to end up with this thing, but just for sake of discussion, those of you more experienced in using these winches , would it be at all advisable to try to position the big steel box via winch, if for some reason that looked like the way to get it into a certain spot? Talking short distance. Make runners? My understanding is that most often these days, these things get transported via one-ton with some kind of roll-off setup. More or less slid off. I can see where I might want to reposition from anywhere a truck could back up to.
snatch block to help multiply your pulling power and some rollers or skids should do it. I just set a 20ft conex the other day...but I used a CAT 938 and forks ;D
My little kubota can shift around 40ft high cube on a gravel pad (empty) and not lose traction just hooking a chain on a corner and pulling. At work we used to move around 40ft HC with a lull, and sometimes dragged them around with skid steers. Should be fine with a 20ft.
Just remember the weight of the container it's not the same thing as the amount of pull it takes to move it.
Whether you can successfully move it around with your winch, what type of surface it is sitting on
Ahh man I really don't want to get into free body diagrams right now :-X
I am still waiting for the coefficient of friction for a container on gravel (both static and dynamic of course)
Haha Pog, once we hit Mannings values☺️, I'll know we've carried this one far enough!
I haven't even seen unit yet. But $800 asking got my attention.
That's a good deal if not beat, for that price I would not expect it to be weather tight around here.
Sounds like Poginyhill is going to need a bunch of data on the aggregate size, type of rock, %fines, etc etc to get started w the calcs. Always good to have a consultant that accounts for all the variables they can!